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Originally Posted By: Steve McQueen
"Why doesn't he just let me go, "

its not his job to. ask the question this way.

"why can't i just let him go. "


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Originally Posted By: TrentC
What to do on [Valentine's Day] depends on what stage you are in. If you are in full blown WAS mode with little to no contact then any gift is pursuing. I like the ideas of doing something with your kids, helping someone else or GAL for you.



If you are just friends stick to making cookies and forget the striptease.

Sorry, I just had to throw that out there. (Long story.)

Last edited by The Wifey; 02/18/10 06:14 PM. Reason: Fixed quote

Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08,
S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012!
Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.

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This is from Bridgestone (a LBS with the feelings of a WAW).
The men can learn a lot by really listening to what she is saying. The dynamics of what your wife needs from you is right here. The tests are for her feelings of safety and security. Make sure you are addressing the right issues. When you can learn to stand tall during the "tests" is when the anger starts to go away. Be prepared. Even better lead thru this time. Learn to communicate during the test, change your response to a productive one and understand her anger for what it is.


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I will add something here
I fully admit, when I started seeing some of my StBXH changes over a year ago when he got some serious counseling..

I had very very mixed feelings.. relief, fustration, fear, but a LOT of anger.

Logically I wanted him to make those changes and for himself, not just out of compliance and I tried really hard to be supportive of his efforts, encouraging of his changes, empathetic to the emotional carnage IC does in it's first few sessions.

But emotionally, watching him making those changes after YEARS of me asking in direct & not so direct ways to stop the destructive actions and pleading for changes... the resentment I felt was overwhelming at times & I know at times, it came out as anger...

In statements like "oh wait.. I know what's that's like", lots of sarcasm

in tests of his changes.. by baiting him & pushing his buttons

in stonewalling his requests for communication because of my fear of his not being able to handle hearing what I had to say

I'm not excusing my behaviour, it was not pretty at times.. I tried my best to work through my anger in other ways, but it would come through in a ways I stated above. Even when he didn't deserve it and really was 'different' I know I was testing.

Just something to think about.


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Originally Posted By: talia

WIN
–verb (used without object)
-to succeed by striving or effort: He applied for a scholarship and won.

–verb (used with object)
-to succeed in reaching (a place, condition, etc.), esp. by great effort: They won the shore through a violent storm.
-to get by effort, as through labor, competition, or conquest: He won his post after years of striving.
-to gain (a prize, fame, etc.).
-to be successful in (a game, battle, etc.).
-to make (one's way), as by effort or ability.
-to attain or reach (a point, goal, etc.).
-to gain (favor, love, consent, etc.), as by qualities or influence.
-to gain the favor, regard, or adherence of.
-to gain the consent or support of; persuade (often fol. by over): The speech won them over to our side.



It doesn't ALWAYS denote an adversarial process! wink

You WIN every time you do the best thing for you - strive to be the bigger person - influence your own life... You get my idea grin

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Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul.
unconditional love is awesome!
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Sorry i am new and not sure how to post a help topic?

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Originally Posted By: Bagheera
I've now been hanging about this SSM forum for about 9 months. While I am neither a -really- old timer nor an overly prolific poster, I am starting to see a pattern emerge in all of the various situations presented here, which I thought I would share with you. Feel free to join in this discussion, correct my misconceptions, or add your own observations.

This is written from the standpoint of the High Desire (HD) partner, caught in a sex-starved marriage to a Low Desire (LD) partner, and who comes here looking for a way to repair the relationship and restore the lost intimacy. From what I have observed (both here and in my own situation), this journey encompasses four phases:

Phase 1: Heal Yourself

Many folks come here angry, hurt, frustrated, and bitter, and are desperately seeking a way to improve their spouse. "If only my spouse would turn on to me sexually, I would be happy again," is the common refrain. So the first truth that must be digested is: the only person you can change in your marriage is YOURSELF. You cannot fix your spouse, and cannot wait for them to make you happy. Initially, you need to focus your energies on improving yourself, for yourself.

This means taking care of yourself physically: eating right, dieting if need be, exercising regularly. This means taking care of yourself mentally: putting new energy into your chosen career, picking up old, neglected hobbies again or finding new ones, getting out of the house more, staying active, revitalizing old friendships or making new ones. This also means caring about your appearance and hygiene: adopting more effective or thorough grooming habits, adopting a new hair style, improving your wardrobe, taking time to pamper yourself with trips to the spa or salon. All the while, your background focus should be on appreciating YOURSELF, boosting your own self-confidence and self-image, and placing your own happiness in your own hands.

A side benefit is that all the while, you are also making yourself more attractive to your spouse. They will stop seeing you as that "angry jerk" or "nagging bitch," and start seeing you again as a happy, self-assured person -- an improved version of the person they were originally attracted to. Your spouse will also feel as if a great weight has been lifted from their own shoulders, as you are no longer depending upon them for your happiness. This sets the stage for Phase 2.

Phase 2: Learn to Meet Your Spouses Needs

This phase might be divided into two parts: (a) education and (b) real giving (to use SG's terminology). Sex-starved marriages ALWAYS involve a failure of TWO (2) people to understand and meet the needs of their spouse. It's rarely one-sided, and while the HD spouse who comes here can point to the failure of the LD spouse to meet their need for physical intimacy, it should be taken as a given that this same HD spouse has, in turn, been failing to meet the needs of their LD spouse.

Very often this failure, on both sides, is wrapped up in the frequently profound differences between men and women. People are often so caught up in their own point-of-view that they completely miss the fact that men and women think, talk, act, and response emotionally very differently from each other, and have very different needs with regard to feeling loved and feeling sexual. Therefore, educating oneself about the opposite sex in general, and about your own spouse in particular, is vital toward solving your sex-starved marriage.

Once you start learning what your spouse's true needs are with regard to friendship, love, and intimacy, the next step is to begin meeting those needs: WITHOUT expecting anything in return. You are showing them that you have a (most likely new-found) knowledge of them and what they need to feel loved and supported, and that YOU are willing to meet those needs --> perhaps for the first time in years.

You are proving to your spouse that you have turned over a new leaf and are willing to work hard to improve the relationship. And it has to be seen as an earnest, long-term effort -- not some short term 'fad' in order to get sex -- but a real effort from the heart.

Phase 3: Get Your Spouse on Board

This is, perhaps, the most critical phase of the four listed, and how you go about it is situation dependent. The most crucial aspect of this phase, in my view, is to have completed Phases 1 and 2 FIRST. If you jump the gun, if you still appear to be angry and demanding, if you still appear to be dependent and needy, if you still appear to not understand your partner's needs, or if you still appear to be selfish and only interested in your own needs: you will most likely fail here. Lay the groundwork carefully and properly.

One effective vehicle for approaching this step is to have your spouse read Chapter 1 of The Sex-Starved Marriage. If the stage has been properly set, then your spouse may be receptive and really GET the message and understand what you have been going through. Other spouses may respond well to a request to start counseling or sex therapy together. Still other spouses may requires some form of "kick in the pants," ultimatum, or what have you, to get them moving, but this ought to be a last resort technique, after the above two have not worked.

Every marriage, and every situation is different, so you'll have to decide how best to proceed. Just make sure that you have done your part to 'get on board,' before asking your spouse to do so.

Phase 4: Working Together

At this point, your spouse will need to go through Phases 1 and 2 on their own, following your lead. They have, no doubt, come to the table just as 'damaged' as you once were, and need to spend some time focusing on themselves and their own self-confidence and self-image. After that, they will have their own education to go through in understanding the opposite sex in general, and you and your needs in particular. All of this takes time, love, and patience on your part.

Along the way, you can follow the guidelines laid out in The Sex-Starved Marriage, pick up some other useful self-help relationship books, attend marriage counseling or sex therapy -- whatever it takes to keep the ball rolling forward. Educating yourself and your spouse in sexual techniques and variety is often a part of this stage too -- everyone can always get better in the bedroom. Be prepared for setbacks and stumbles, sudden surges forward followed by weeks of stagnation -- it's all a slow, often unsteady process. In general, expect repairing your relationship to take about 1-2 months for every 1 year of marriage.

Finally, never forget that a successful relationship and sex life requires CONSTANT, daily maintenance. Communicate clearly with your spouse every day. Court your spouse every day. Show your spouse appreciation and thanks every day. Affirm the attractiveness of your spouse, in your eyes, every day. Maintain a high level of emotional intimacy and sexual 'tension' every day. You get the idea.

Marriage is work -- hard work -- but well worth the rewards.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Not a quote from DB but I think it is useful here. I heard this on NPR this morning.

Quote:
Overcoming Disappointments
In his seventh decade, Kushner wrote Overcoming Life's Disappointments. He says that when people look back on life, they realize that many things they had their hearts set on doing remain incomplete.
"Does that brand your life as a failure? Or can you find the secret ... of failing and not feeling like a failure?" Kushner says. "The difference between a person who has a happy old age and the person who has an unhappy old age is not how successful they were, but it's how much the things they failed at continue to gnaw at them. And no matter what you've achieved, if you're not able to still that little voice of disappointment, you are never going to be happy."
Still, Kushner says, his relationship with God hasn't changed as he has become older.
"My sense is God and I came to an accommodation with each other a couple of decades ago, where he's gotten used to the things that I'm not capable of and I've come to terms with things he's not capable of," Kushner says. "And we care very much about each other."


It matters how you handle it.

Cheers


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Replace the mind-reading, fear and catastrophising with goals/solutions. Go from victim to empowered. This is how to handle it.

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Hi all
Context: I panicked when he said we need to have a talk. And we do need to. But because it came from him, and because I didn’t know which aspect of what we need to talk about he meant, and because it was with a stern and serious face, and because I react to anyone’s displeasure with blinding dread and worst-thoughts scenario, I was already a wreck before he walked out the door. I thought my day was wrecked, as I would now spend the whole of it ruminating and stressing about the conversation to come, the make or break of it. I was already disintegrating into a mess, thinking about what he might say, how I might react, how I might feel, which was all my DBing resolve was dissolving into a puddle of fright and head-spinning incompetence. No amount of telling myself that I would be ok no matter what happened would relieve it.

Solution: And then I did something different. I stopped playing conversations in my head, thinking about what I would say/might say/ in response to whatever he might say. I didn’t even try and distract myself, knowing that I would still be obsessing, and working myself up in the process. Instead I came to the computer, sat down and wrote out my goals. What I wanted for the future. I wrote it in detail, what I would see, what I wanted to have happen and why. In half an hour, my anxiety and being a victim to the situation totally reversed. Instead of worrying about what I might say in response to whatever he put forward, I knew what I would say, because I was now firmly grounded in my goals, what I wanted. This then gave me the confidence, courage and words, so that I knew what I would be saying. I was now no longer afraid of any conversation, or even confrontation, if it came to that.

A few people have remarked that when I talk about my relationship and what I wanted, it was about us, about him, never about me. I have been so focused on placating and caring for him, his feelings, the relationship, that I didn’t even know I was doing this to the extent that my goals and needs had taken a back seat. And this was making me weak and a victim to whatever was going on.

DB talks about it, but I urge anyone that if you haven’t sat down and written out your goals, and in positive terms (ie what you want to have happen, not what you don’t want), to do it. It can totally give you back your power and make you feel less of a victim and potentially reactive rather than proactive, to your spouse or the situation.


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From a old-timer returning - Steady.

Quote:
It intrigues me to see that detachment comes at it's own time. For some it comes sooner, others later, and for some, not at all. It seemed to just creep up on me one day. As I look back now it was a process that seemed to always be marching forward - sometimes in big leaps that were noticeable and sometimes in microscopic steps which I didn't even see at all.

I wish there was some magic words or ritual that I could give all the new people here so they can get the level of detachment that's necessary for each of their situations.

Perhaps we each need to go through the suffering that brings that detachment on its own. Maybe the point of detachment is the lesson that pulls us out of a codependent need to cling to another person. I certainly know the sitch's provide us all an opportunity to awaken to life itself. Most of us were asleep and were awoken by a bomb...but I count us as the lucky ones. Imagine those people who get bombed but still don't wake up.

At least here you have the opportunity to grow, to learn, to mature into an adult who can look a mess in the eye and put your nose to the grindstone. Moving even though at times you feel like you are frozen in amber.

Find ways to bring detachment to yourself.


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Quote:
It always amazes me that they consider their illicit affair partner to be their "soulmate," and their relationship "one for the ages," and yet they will go to ANY lengths to lie about it and keep it a secret from everyone!

If it's so special, why not SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS??

Puppy


whistle whistle whistle cool


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