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How are things going Gardener?


W42/H42/M20
S/19,D/17
On My Own: 11/28/09
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goldey,
Originally Posted By: goldeylox
Keep it simple, G'Man. Peace.
Keep it simple, indeed. Peace to you, too.

Thanks,

Last edited by Gardener; 01/17/10 10:49 PM.

Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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Originally Posted By: SpyBunny
How are things going Gardener?
Good. You?


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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Long journaling/update (first long one in a while though),

Dammit. Just dammit.
Spoke to stbxw on the phone just now. She had left me a voicemail this morning asking why I hadn't responded to her email, why mediator hasn't heard from me in weeks, what's going on, rescheduled date for D is fast-approaching, etc.
So I sit down and reply to her email:
-Yes, it's taken me eight days to respond to your email, which was a reply to my email that took you 26 days to respond to. I'm not delaying; I've been busy. I want this over asap, too.
-Listed a couple of things in the agreement that I simply will not abide nor agree to. Period.
-Responded to her mentioning in her email that I agreed in May to move out of the house/let her move back in...and then changed my mind!! (which she never misses a chance to bring up even though I've never mentioned the 27 agreements she's reversed herself on post-separation). Anyway, I responded to that with:

"As far as me reversing my position - once - I want you to know that I sincerely consider both of the following equally understandable and valid:

On (Bomb Date), 2008 you informed me of your decision to get an apartment.
I initially offered, "No, you stay; I'll go,"
After you declined, over the following weeks I made an well-reasoned, considered and deeply personal decision to stay in my home.
One day in (MC)'s office you asked me to re-consider as you wanted to 'get out of that moldy basement apartment.'
Based on that plea, I made an emotional and hasty reversal of my position and communicated it to you - equally emotionally - in the email you've quoted.
When the emotion of that moment and of that plea subsided, I returned to my original, valid position.

On (Bomb Date), 2008 you informed me of your decision to get an apartment. You had made a well-reasoned, considered, and deeply personal decision to leave our marriage and the house.
Shortly after that, outside the coffee shop, following my depression diagnosis by both (family physician and MC), you made an emotional and hasty reversal of your position and communicated it to me equally emotionally.
When the emotion of that moment subsided after talking with (IC) the following day, you returned to your original, valid position.

Fine.

Let's 'assume good will and intent,' as (MC) suggested, respect each other's decisions, and give each other the benefit of the doubt. And let it drop.

That being said, I'm not going to discuss personal matters anymore as they are, after all, moot at this point or matters from our past as they are irrelevant at this point. Matters from (move out date) through present are really all that are relevant now and I, too, want to come to final terms on those in time for (Court Date)"


Four hours later she calls. After a couple of surprising pleasantries absent her now-standard cold-to-disdainful tone, she starts to cry: She's sorry for this. For this strife. For all of this. For her part in turning it into strife. She never wanted this. She sits there sometimes and wonder how it came to this, etc. I calm her down, try to soothe (I know, I know), tell her I have also sat here and wondered how it all - all - came to this.

We talked calmly about mediation but mostly benign things (selling the house, bills, debt, how's the cat, her new neighbors, etc.) for about fifteen minutes.

And it was kinda nice. Or nostalgic. Dammit. I mean as soon as I ended the conversation "Well, you have a good night, now," and hung up, all I wanted to do was call her back. And talk to her some more. Because it was almost her. For the first time in 8 or 9 months, she sounded like her. The One I remember. The one I've just about finished (I think) grieving.
Dammit.
Damn her.


Last edited by Gardener; 01/18/10 01:14 AM.

Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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(((Gardener)))

I have avoided commenting on any post lately because I feel I don't have anything to offer - I feel emotionally spent and I can't figure out how to get back to myself again...

That being said, you are my friend and you asked me to come here and comment -

She cries & she is sorry - Do you in your heart believe her? Is she sorry enough to actually take the time to work on the marriage? 8 or 9 months have past - Has to much time passed that you guys can't get back what you had?

Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...

You have been at this for quite some time - Look within to see what it is you really truly want...

Last time I checked, you didn't want a divorce and maybe just maybe the door is opening a sliver within her as well.

The one thing that stands out about your whole post -
Originally Posted By: Gardener
She never wanted this

What is "this"? The divorce? The unhappiness? The changes? The anger?

If she never wanted it, why did she set out to destroy all the good you guys had built together?

If it was a mistake in her eyes, then you need to possibly re-examine what you want as well.

I of course know why you responded the way you did, but truthfully - What do you want?


May All Who Seek To Take My Life
Be Put To Shame And Confusion;
May All Who Desire My Ruin
Be Turned Back In Disgrace.
~Psalm 40:14~
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Serenity,
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...
I understand your point but, Lord, I hope you're wrong.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
The one thing that stands out about your whole post -
Originally Posted By: Gardener
She never wanted this

What is "this"? The divorce? The unhappiness? The changes? The anger?
Actually, Seren, I took the "it," "this strife," to be her even-more-disdainful, entrenched, demanding attitude throughout the Mediation which, among other things, sent us both scrambling for - and to - lawyers which Mediation, by definition practically precludes. I didn't think the "it" was the sitch/divorce itself and even now that you've got me reviewing it in my mind, I still don't think so. But who knows? If she did mean something else, I'd imagine that would become apparent relatively shortly.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I of course know why you responded the way you did, but truthfully - What do you want?
I wish in a way that I hadn't responded at all and just listened and not engaged. I wish I had DB'ed it a bit. I wish I had remembered that I was speaking to someone who has accused me of a couple of vile untrue things, who made a thinly veiled threat re: "how much you value your relationship with StepS & StepD," in Mediator's office when I made a demand, shortly after which they both dropped me like a stone.

What do I want? Like all of us here, turning back the clock would be the ideal.

Short of that, I'm ready to be D'ed and, frankly, done with who she is now.
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
I have avoided commenting on any post lately because I feel I don't have anything to offer - I feel emotionally spent and I can't figure out how to get back to myself again...
I know. I understand. But don't go away from here. Stay away from commenting on others' sitches, sure, but stay active - talking - on your own thread. That's when we all need and help each other the most.
Thanks, (((Serenity))).


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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And it was kinda nice. Or nostalgic. Dammit. I mean as soon as I ended the conversation "Well, you have a good night, now," and hung up, all I wanted to do was call her back. And talk to her some more. Because it was almost her. For the first time in 8 or 9 months, she sounded like her. The One I remember. The one I've just about finished (I think) grieving.
Dammit.
Damn her.


YT tip Toes into Gardners thread and inconspicuously says "Hey G-Man go read your advice to that YTJUY guy on his thread about 2 hours ago!...."

YT tiptoes back out of thread and closes door behind.

I realize that I might be the last person qualified to give you any advice and you have a ton of people that are much better versed than I in here daily, however--like you told me don't pay attention to what they do and less than 50% of what they say.

I assume that means on positive (sentimental) things as well? Your ex-W is probably sad and hurt about things but not enough yet to realize that she is the one that caused it. So when you hear her talk like that next time you (like me) need to be better prepared and have your armor on and your defenses up.

Again, you are so helpful and thoughtful in my thread that I hope you are not offended to get some of your advice back. I wish I was insightful enough to have my own advice, but when yours is so dead on I do what I did in College.......Plagerize it!


Last edited by ytjuy; 01/18/10 05:43 AM.

H: 30
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D Final 4-5-10

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Quote:
Serenity,
Originally Posted By: Serenity13
Sweetie - You will never fully be finished grieving her/your marriage...There will always be a piece of you that wonders - What could have been, what went wrong, what should have been etc...
I understand your point but, Lord, I hope you're wrong.


I agree with Serenity here, and acceptance of that is helpful. I believe we will always have periods of time when we reflect and wonder, and still have those feelings. How can we not? They were a huge part of our life. I do believe though that the emotion of them will lessen over time as we gain better perspective and our own personal growth.

As a former smoker that still gets the urge for a cigarette once in a while, I know these feelings come back and never go away. I also still think back to my first fiance at times and just wonder, and we split up some 16+ years ago.

Those times never go away, but when they come they can be managed, so don't beat yourself up for feeling the way you do right now, after having an emotional conversation with your stbxw.

You continue to do well G, and are a strong and resilient man.


M: 41
STBXW: 41
D: 9
Bomb: 4/26/09

On board the D train now..

"Suffering is when we try to change what we cannot."
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YT,
Welcome! No need to tip-toe.
Originally Posted By: ytjuy
YT tip Toes into Gardners thread and inconspicuously says "Hey G-Man go read your advice to that YTJUY guy on his thread about 2 hours ago!....like you told me don't pay attention to what they do and less than 50% of what they say.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. wink Just really caught me off-guard. We don't talk anymore. I won't even go to Mediator sessions. Unlike traditional L-to-L divorces, I've discovered that mediation keeps you face-to-face and all the emotions are front and center (plus, I have this 17-year habit of not being able to say, "no" to her and was giving away the farm!). I've grown quite out of practice steeling myself for what she's going to say this time when we don't talk at all anymore.

Thanks for the 2x4. Always helpful to be reminded to stick to the basics, i.e., DBing 101.


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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Wow...Your mediation is f2f...When I did mine we were each in separate rooms and the mediator would go back and forth with proposals...Could you ask the mediator for separate rooms?


Me:40
W: 39
T: 17 years
M: 15 years
S-9
D-6
D final 11/10/2009

"We are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems."



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