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Stuck,

I think Dday and I get the emotional needs part of the equation, it's the physical appearance aspect of the OM that we were ranting about. Speaking re: my sitch, my W must have beer goggles an inch think to think her OM is hot stuff. Not that it really matters that much anyway- I'd be just as hurt if OM was handsome- it's just that it adds another dimension to my W's WAW craziness. crazy

Oh, and I do plead guilty to being judgmental in my last post. I'm trying to get away from that for sure, but Dday got me riled and I just had to make an exception talking about skankster OM. Thanks Dday!smile


M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
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My W's OM is bald, twice her age and ready for retirement. I guess he'd be good looking if you were a grandmother!

I had to figure out what the hell was going on in my sitch when she kept saying he was much more better looking than me. So that's when I realized she was looking at it through an emotional lens.

I'm prayin' for you BJ. Maybe you should splash some holy water on your W to get that evil spirit living in her to leave. LOL.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Hey.....look at my guy Stuck! Now he has been to the WAW School of Hard Knocks--and he learned! Thankfully he is passing it forward to others and is being a big help here on the board.

You men will learn but it is hard for you b/c we women are designed so differently. You can't think of us in the same terms as with men. That is where people get into their problems in M a lot of times.....forgetting their S does not "think" like they do. Anyway, as I said before, when it is a case of what I think of as "true WAW", it hardly ever has much to do with OM's looks. I'm not sure about personal success, etc., but I do know it is more on how OM makes the WAW feel. Stuck summed it up very well in his description.

Quote:
In any event, speaking of "illusions", does this also require her to keep feeding herself negative illusions of me to prop up the positive illusions of the OM? Are the two illusions dependent upon one another or separate?


Oh yes! Very much so. If she were to open her eyes to see you the way you really are, then there is a good probability that OM would not look near so good to her and then she would have to face some other realities she is running from...and then her fantasy castle would begin to crumble and soon her entire dream world would collaspe. Naturally she is going to strive to make the LBH be the "bad guy" in every situation b/c she must be justified to leave H and have approval of others to go to OM. The more she trashes her H to her friends/relatives, the more H will appear to be rotten to the core and apparently had everyone fooled. Some people think, "Well, you never know what goes on behind closed doors." Obviously not everyone will believe that, but some will b/c they "want" to. Gives some folks something to talk about.

Listen, I realize how sick this all sounds to you men. How do you think I feel knowing "I" was that woman? I had/have one of the nicest men for a H that ever walked this planet and yet I was on my way of nearly convincing my mother that he was not the man he pretended to be and was not a good H to me. I needed for her to approve of me turning to OM and I knew she would never hear of it unless she turned against my H. Now.....here's the kicker. I don't think I allowed myself to realize what I was doing at the time I was doing it. Maybe that is a nice way of saying I would not "admit" to myself what I was doing! When I look back...it is hard to know b/c my mind was in so much fog. I mean the way I was trashing my H to my mother, and all the fault finding I was feeding my own mind --in order to find OM more appealing. Yes, I had to put my H down in every way I could think of--so that OM would be the "answer" to all my problems and bring me happiness. Think about it....how or why would a wife leave a wonderful man who everyone loves and thinks she is lucky to have? BJ, you were talking about those women being attracted to you, etc., and you couldn't understand why your wife can't see that and know you are the better man. The sad fact is.....she does know (subconsciously) but she has it burried deep and doesn't want to dig it up. If she does that, then she has to say good-bye to her drug of choice. She is hooked on that drug and doesn't want to give it up and will FIGHT to keep getting it. Just as we can't understand why a drug addict would do some things he does, it is the same for a WAW. It makes no sense whatsoever! I have been there and it still makes no sense. All I know that in my own case, I was so unhappy for so many years and felt so neglected that I was not only vulnerable to what happen, I was an A waiting to happen! Women get desparate for happiness--and romancejust as men get desparate for sex! That is how females are wired. Men go through that just long enough to court a woman and get her wedded and then he is through! He won the prize and now life continues, but the woman wants that romantic courtship to continue! So many women are longing for romance in their lives that that is why many are depressed and unhappy. "Most" men do not realize that romance to a woman is like sunshine to a flower. So, it goes back to something the OM says to feed the soul of that woman and it makes her glow inside. He may look like a frog, but in her mind.....she will see him as her prince! She thinks he has come to save the day and will sweep her away and they will live happily ever after. I know....it sounds like a stupid fairytale, but that is exactly what the WAW wants! She wants a fairytale. Her mind is in the clouds and you can't reason with her. She wouldn't recognize logic if it met her on the street and said, "howdy".

I say so much of the same stuff over & over but I don't know how to word it so that most men can "understand" what a WAW is thinking or going through. It took me a long, long time to get where I was as a WAW. I think that women feel that they have "missed" something or feel denied...maybe....I don't really know, but it is like they have a dream of being romanced and courted by the man they love and in their minds..the M is over b/c there is no feelings of being in love any longer. She may try to satisy that longing by reading romance novels and watching love stories, etc.,but if she continues along that path and doesn't find some type of peace & happiness in her life, then I believe she sets herself up for falling for some guy's line and believing every line of BS he feeds her. Now, I can't speak for every single woman out there b/c maybe there are particular circumstances in some M's, but I can tell you about "me" and from what I've read, it is pretty much the common symptom of WAW's.

I have been amazed at how many women I see in the doctor's waiting room sitting therre reading romance novels. Almost in every case, she is about middle age or even younger and most of the time she is over weight (another sign of unhappiness or unrest)and some will even have the H sitting beside her and he looks as if he hasn't a clue of what is going on. I want to get him and shake him and tell him he better wake up and start romancing his wife and telling her she is the hottest thing on earth and anything else that makes her feel special.....before she stops feeling anything for him. B/c after he wakes up to what he's done through neglect, and he is ready to go to work on the M.......she will be done.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: stuck808
My W's OM is bald, twice her age and ready for retirement. I guess he'd be good looking if you were a grandmother!

I had to figure out what the hell was going on in my sitch when she kept saying he was much more better looking than me. So that's when I realized she was looking at it through an emotional lens.

I'm prayin' for you BJ. Maybe you should splash some holy water on your W to get that evil spirit living in her to leave. LOL.


Stuck,

W in love with grandpa OM- now that really is a crisis. Definitely a sense of urgency in trying to figure that one out. But given the age difference, I can see why it might be easier to come to the conclusion regarding the emotional aspect of the R.

Appreciate the feedback and prayers. I need all the divine intervention I can get for my sitch. I was actually considering looking into some voodoo magic against OM. I think if I could get my hands on a Chucky doll, dye the hair blonde and rip out some hair in the front it would be a good representation of OM. Get a couple of mom's old knitting needles, voodoo priestess for the evil spells and I'm good to go. laugh

Talk to you later.


M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
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Quote:
You men will learn but it is hard for you b/c we women are designed so differently. You can't think of us in the same terms as with men. That is where people get into their problems in M a lot of times.....forgetting their S does not "think" like they do. Anyway, as I said before, when it is a case of what I think of as "true WAW", it hardly ever has much to do with OM's looks. I'm not sure about personal success, etc., but I do know it is more on how OM makes the WAW feel.


We know better Sandi, at least I do. Still, it's hard to reconcile as a man because for us men "feelings", while important, don't play such a dominant role in our Rs like they do with women. After experiencing what I am currently going through with my W, I can't help but feel that the huge role "feelings" play in a woman's psyche are in many ways an achilles heel of sorts. It remains disturbing to me how my W's "feelings" can completely overwhelm logical and rational thinking. I just can't relate to it. Of course, I haven't experienced either MLC or an EA- I hope I never do- but maybe if I did I would understand better. I can only imagine that if I was thinking like my W is right now (basing my thoughts and actions on "feelings") I'd probably feel like I was losing my mind.

Quote:
If she were to open her eyes to see you the way you really are, then there is a good probability that OM would not look near so good to her and then she would have to face some other realities she is running from...and then her fantasy castle would begin to crumble and soon her entire dream world would collaspe. Naturally she is going to strive to make the LBH be the "bad guy" in every situation b/c she must be justified to leave H and have approval of others to go to OM.


I know that dropping the rope and filing for D was what I needed to do at this point in my sitch. And, I need to continue to detach as well. I just wish I knew what it was going to take in order for her to really "open her eyes" regarding me and our MR! My W is so damn stubborn...and she hates it when I'm right. Just don't know what else to do right now beyond making the realities of an impending D look really bad.

Quote:
The more she trashes her H to her friends/relatives, the more H will appear to be rotten to the core and apparently had everyone fooled. Some people think, "Well, you never know what goes on behind closed doors." Obviously not everyone will believe that, but some will b/c they "want" to. Gives some folks something to talk about.


You are right, some people will buy into her B.S. Fortunately my MIL and FIL and several others in her family aren't now and probably won't. In fact my MIL & FIL hit a rough patch and almost split up about 10 years ago but didn't- now they are telling my W they are so glad they got through it.

Quote:
BJ, you were talking about those women being attracted to you, etc., and you couldn't understand why your wife can't see that and know you are the better man. The sad fact is.....she does know (subconsciously) but she has it burried deep and doesn't want to dig it up. If she does that, then she has to say good-bye to her drug of choice. She is hooked on that drug and doesn't want to give it up and will FIGHT to keep getting it.


It's going on 7 full months now for my W's A and that is precisely her attitude: I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY A WITH OM! And it was her attitude a couple weeks ago when I crashed her out of state vacation- crying when she first saw me because I was "ruining everything". It is truly MADDENING!

Quote:
"Most" men do not realize that romance to a woman is like sunshine to a flower.

Quote:
She thinks he has come to save the day and will sweep her away and they will live happily ever after. I know....it sounds like a stupid fairytale, but that is exactly what the WAW wants! She wants a fairytale.

Quote:
I think that women feel that they have "missed" something or feel denied...maybe....I don't really know, but it is like they have a dream of being romanced and courted by the man they love and in their minds..the M is over b/c there is no feelings of being in love any longer.


This is the kind of poignant stuff that got my attention and made me want to take the approach I did with my W in the first place. I just wish there was a way I or someone could reach my W to let her know Big John gets it! And that I can and will give her what she wants and needs.

Quote:
She may try to satisy that longing by reading romance novels and watching love stories, etc.,but if she continues along that path and doesn't find some type of peace & happiness in her life, then I believe she sets herself up for falling for some guy's line and believing every line of BS he feeds her.


My W did/does both. These were two big indicators right in front of my face that I didn't recognize. And what you say about believing every line of some guy's BS- that is definitely what I fear for my W and her future should she chose go forward with the D.

Thanks Sandi for another great post.


M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
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[/quote] This is the kind of poignant stuff that got my attention and made me want to take the approach I did with my W in the first place. I just wish there was a way I or someone could reach my W to let her know Big John gets it! And that I can and will give her what she wants and needs.
[/quote]


John - in the same boat as well. I know what I've done wrong. I've told her I did wrong and would be better. I want to "romance" her again, to show her that I mean it. But, that's not what she needs. She needs time and space. She needs me not to chase her. I want to buy her flowers and end up ignoring her text messages. Seems like I'm doing all the wrong things - but based on what I have read from Sandy and others here, it's what I need to do. I need to keep coming back here to remind me of that. It's hard. Her BF is unemployed, in a marraige that is dead, he sits around all day at home texting my W 40 times a day. Still don't see what is there - but there must be something. I know this guy too and he is actively pursing her - she doesn't see that; just the attention he is paying her.

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Quote:
I just wish I knew what it was going to take in order for her to really "open her eyes" regarding me and our MR!


I think you know in your heart that it is going to take a really hard knock of reality to hit your W right between her eyes. She has it as bad as any woman I have read about and I doubt anything short of her practically living on the streets are going to open her eyes. I think she could walk in on the OM having sex with three OW and he could lie his way out of it b/c she "wants" so badly to believe in her dream.

One thing in common that I've noticed in the posts that LBH's write is wanting to know what it will take to wake their W up. Here's the thing.....as long as the H waits around looking & hoping something is going to happen that will wake up his W or bring her to her senses.....I think he is setting himself up for a lot of intense pain. When you can learn to move on with your life and accept the fact that she has chosen the path she has--(doesn't mean you like it)-- and there's nothing you can do about it unless she decides to change her mind.....that is the time when you will start to have peace....and not before. So you are bringing a lot of pain on yourself by continually wondering what it is going to take for her. I know that the acceptance is a mental attitude and you can pretend all day long, but unless it is "real" then it doesn't work. I truly hope you can reach that place BJ.

I want to remind you men who read this that it took a long....long time for your W to reach this place of insanity! I wonder if some of you forget that. She may have dealth with a lot of cr@p for many years before her heart went cold. Some men say (rather self-righteously, I might add) that they would NEVER do what their WAW has done to them. Remember....men & women handle things differently. If we "think" differently, why would you expect us to handle things the same way? Just like BJ pointed out about "feelings" not being the primary factor (or however he said that) and it was hard to understand the female mind with so much being all about feelings. Let me say this.....EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING for a woman--is about feelings! She may "endure" for a long time--but don't confuse enduring with a lack of feelings. Even the WAW may say she doesn't have "feelings" for her LBH...but she does have them, it's just that they have changed. But again, that is the difference. I can't imagine what's in it for a man if there are no feelings. I think that some men in history began this thing about females being illogical b/c of all their emotions. shocked Doesn't mean we don't have a brain in our head, but I'm sure we appear to be rather illogical compared to how a man operates. Anyway....most WAW's not only act illogical when involved in an A, but they feel as if they are losing their mind at times. Yes, BJ, I felt that I was having a nervous breakdown when I wasn't engulfed with the dizziness of my fantasy and that is why I believe a lot of women won't think about what is truly happening around them b/c they are feeling like they are losing their minds. Now, I hope that anyone reading this will realize that I am not speaking of women who have a real justified reason for leaving a H, but am talking about WAW's in an A.

One more thing I wanted to point out while I'm at it....and that is those of you who think they would romance their W all the time if only you had a second chance. I know you think you would, but right now...you see this as the "war" to win. But, after you had the "victory" and she was back home and things had gotten back on track again...you would return to the same old routine. At least that is MHO and I think most women of any age would think the same thing. You mean well--and to have improved yourself and not turn back on those improvements would be fantastic... but to romance a woman ALL THE TIME??? Hummmm, I would like to see that done in real life! So, maybe you can see why your W would doubt your good intentions. I keep going back to the fact of how long she may have gone unhappy and you didn't even notice. I'm not talking about Big John's stitch...but LBH's in general. When she feels like her very soul has dried up and she'll never have the excitement with a man like she did with you in the beginning of your R......she thinks that life is over for her as a young, sexually attractive female and she must simply "settle" for what she has around her. I understand how this is probably making you men fuss, but try to bear with me to understand her. She has a longing in her heart and is VULNERABLE and I wonder if men forget that. Some H's are so angry at the W that they forget she doesn't think and feel like he does!! She is different and no matter how many times science points that fact out --there will be some who won't listen. (Not you, BJ...but some.) By the time she reaches the WAW stage, she is in a dangerous frame of mind. This has been building for a looooong time! Okay, I realize I'm repeating myself. But when I saw the other man who posted, it made me remember that so many read these posts and I guess I wanted to bring that point home again.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Quote:
I just wish I knew what it was going to take in order for her to really "open her eyes" regarding me and our MR!


I think you know in your heart that it is going to take a really hard knock of reality to hit your W right between her eyes. She has it as bad as any woman I have read about and I doubt anything short of her practically living on the streets are going to open her eyes. I think she could walk in on the OM having sex with three OW and he could lie his way out of it b/c she "wants" so badly to believe in her dream.

One thing in common that I've noticed in the posts that LBH's write is wanting to know what it will take to wake their W up. Here's the thing.....as long as the H waits around looking & hoping something is going to happen that will wake up his W or bring her to her senses.....I think he is setting himself up for a lot of intense pain. When you can learn to move on with your life and accept the fact that she has chosen the path she has--(doesn't mean you like it)-- and there's nothing you can do about it unless she decides to change her mind.....that is the time when you will start to have peace....and not before. So you are bringing a lot of pain on yourself by continually wondering what it is going to take for her. I know that the acceptance is a mental attitude and you can pretend all day long, but unless it is "real" then it doesn't work. I truly hope you can reach that place BJ.

I want to remind you men who read this that it took a long....long time for your W to reach this place of insanity! I wonder if some of you forget that. She may have dealth with a lot of cr@p for many years before her heart went cold. Some men say (rather self-righteously, I might add) that they would NEVER do what their WAW has done to them. Remember....men & women handle things differently. If we "think" differently, why would you expect us to handle things the same way? Just like BJ pointed out about "feelings" not being the primary factor (or however he said that) and it was hard to understand the female mind with so much being all about feelings. Let me say this.....EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING for a woman--is about feelings! She may "endure" for a long time--but don't confuse enduring with a lack of feelings. Even the WAW may say she doesn't have "feelings" for her LBH...but she does have them, it's just that they have changed. But again, that is the difference. I can't imagine what's in it for a man if there are no feelings. I think that some men in history began this thing about females being illogical b/c of all their emotions. shocked Doesn't mean we don't have a brain in our head, but I'm sure we appear to be rather illogical compared to how a man operates. Anyway....most WAW's not only act illogical when involved in an A, but they feel as if they are losing their mind at times. Yes, BJ, I felt that I was having a nervous breakdown when I wasn't engulfed with the dizziness of my fantasy and that is why I believe a lot of women won't think about what is truly happening around them b/c they are feeling like they are losing their minds. Now, I hope that anyone reading this will realize that I am not speaking of women who have a real justified reason for leaving a H, but am talking about WAW's in an A.

One more thing I wanted to point out while I'm at it....and that is those of you who think they would romance their W all the time if only you had a second chance. I know you think you would, but right now...you see this as the "war" to win. But, after you had the "victory" and she was back home and things had gotten back on track again...you would return to the same old routine. At least that is MHO and I think most women of any age would think the same thing. You mean well--and to have improved yourself and not turn back on those improvements would be fantastic... but to romance a woman ALL THE TIME??? Hummmm, I would like to see that done in real life! So, maybe you can see why your W would doubt your good intentions. I keep going back to the fact of how long she may have gone unhappy and you didn't even notice. I'm not talking about Big John's stitch...but LBH's in general. When she feels like her very soul has dried up and she'll never have the excitement with a man like she did with you in the beginning of your R......she thinks that life is over for her as a young, sexually attractive female and she must simply "settle" for what she has around her. I understand how this is probably making you men fuss, but try to bear with me to understand her. She has a longing in her heart and is VULNERABLE and I wonder if men forget that. Some H's are so angry at the W that they forget she doesn't think and feel like he does!! She is different and no matter how many times science points that fact out --there will be some who won't listen. (Not you, BJ...but some.) By the time she reaches the WAW stage, she is in a dangerous frame of mind. This has been building for a looooong time! Okay, I realize I'm repeating myself. But when I saw the other man who posted, it made me remember that so many read these posts and I guess I wanted to bring that point home again. What may seem like a short span of time to you was was a lifetime for her--and she feels that this OM is her "second" chance. No, he doesn't measure up to you! But she is not "normal"....did you forget? wink


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Quote:
When you can learn to move on with your life and accept the fact that she has chosen the path she has--(doesn't mean you like it)-- and there's nothing you can do about it unless she decides to change her mind.....that is the time when you will start to have peace....and not before. So you are bringing a lot of pain on yourself by continually wondering what it is going to take for her. I know that the acceptance is a mental attitude and you can pretend all day long, but unless it is "real" then it doesn't work. I truly hope you can reach that place BJ.


Sandi,

I do know better. I know that I have to accept my W's decision on the path that she has chosen. It goes against every fiber in my being, but...I don't really have a choice. It's so tough on so many levels, not to mention my sons looking to Daddy to fix everything and make it better.

Quote:
...it took a long....long time for your W to reach this place of insanity! I wonder if some of you forget that. She may have dealth with a lot of cr@p for many years before her heart went cold. Some men say (rather self-righteously, I might add) that they would NEVER do what their WAW has done to them. Remember....men & women handle things differently.


I don't think it would be fair to NOT acknowledge the fact that it did take along time for the WAWs to reach the point where they did. What I continue to have a problem with my W is the lack of accountability for her 50% of the breakdown of the MR... even when I know better NOT to expect this from her.

Quote:
One more thing I wanted to point out while I'm at it....and that is those of you who think they would romance their W all the time if only you had a second chance. I know you think you would, but right now...you see this as the "war" to win. But, after you had the "victory" and she was back home and things had gotten back on track again...you would return to the same old routine. At least that is MHO and I think most women of any age would think the same thing.


Well my W certainly feels this way! "People never change" is a phrase my W just loves to repeat. And you know what Sandi, you are right about how we men WOULD return to the same routine eventually UNLESS we truly committed to changing our behavior through regular practice.

Thanks Sandi for another terrific post!


M: 41
W: 39
S: 11
S: 10
D: 4
1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09
EA began: 2/14/09
EA discovered: 3/1/09
I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself
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All I can add to Sandi's perfect post is that just like there's a 'WAS school of hard knocks', there's also a LBS 'school of hard knocks' and sandi covered quite a bit of the curriculumn.


Me 35/XW 33
S13 & S12
M: 10/17/98
OM & S: 07/08
D final 06/09/09
12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing"
06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10
06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
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