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Thinker #1786008 06/19/09 04:36 PM
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SP - I am just wondering why, when she started asking "how can it be that you are doing so well?" that you didn't just tell her the truth.


I think you get there when you get there, but it is really a worthwhile question.

The paradigm has shifted but SP, obviously you don't feel safe and are on guard...how you build a bridge and get to a place where there isn't an ongoing power struggle, I'm not sure. I know it feels better to be on top (minus the lingering inevitability of the power shifting again)...works for now but indefinitely...

I'm wondering SP, what would you say you have changed about YOU (not necessarily in relation to W, but as an individual) in this process? Real, lasting changes, growth? I know it is there, just wondering how you see it.



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Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

You validate, without rescuing or softening -- in my opinion. But you leave them in their crucible, because that is where a lot of the hard introspective works gets done.


OK, so as I understand it, your references to "Rescuing" were to the places SP said or implied "Sure you'll be fine! You'll get plenty of dates! Your future life will be OK. etc"

Now I understand.


Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2
M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08
Walking away from a bad situation.

My Sitch

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No Resentment
DanceQueen #1786016 06/19/09 04:46 PM
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[quote=DanceQueen]SP "It is because I was forced into an immediate program of self-reflection when you said you were divorcing me. I had no choice but to learn how to cope with my new future. To learn that, I had to read a lot of books, talk to my counselor, and begin getting help and support from other divorced people. I have learned so much in these few months and I really am a changed man and person. At first, I was honestly only doing these things hoping to win you back. When I could see that wasn't going to work, I had to change my focus onto helping myself cope only and letting go the idea that you will ever come back. From there, I've had to make even more progress. This process has been more painful, but more enlightening, than anything I've ever gone through.]/quote

I love it! Great way to explain it. I'll be sure to take this tack (if W ever asks about more than the weather) frown


Gardener

"My soul, be satisfied with flowers,
With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them
In the one garden you may call your own."
Cyrano deBergerac


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If I might weigh in here, I think we're going from the sublime to the ridiculous. First, my take on WAW's question was and is that it was rhetorical - she knows that I've been introspecting: she's seen me reading, she's asked about what I do in therapy, she's even (by her own admission) snuck a look at my notebook and journal. No, this was more like one of those Hollywood Spit-Take "I don't get its!"

On rescuing - why do "some" (as they like to say on Fox News when they mean "we") do so much infantilizing of the Wayward? "Take the training wheels off" -- for crying out loud.

There's a world of difference between not allowing someone to fail absolutely and not allowing someone to fail.

But I'll take all the advice I can get, and I'll go the whole "fall to the bottom of the well" enchilada when someone can answer this question persuasively:

2 weeks after she moves out, WAW will have custody of the children. How will a devastated, alone, miserable, suffering WAW be good for my children?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Quote:
The paradigm has shifted but SP, obviously you don't feel safe and are on guard


Ditto my earlier -- it was a rhetorical question, not an inquiring one.

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Quote:
As for the second, I respectfully disagree. I don't think you say "Have a nice life!" by any means, but I do think sometimes you have to say/project some version of: "I understand this is tough." or "I agree; this is tough on all of us." or "I can see how difficult that must be for you."


When I advocate being friends while in the DB mode it is of the "tough love" approach. It's business like, it's centered on my best interests, it's brutally honest and it's loving at the core. The reason it works is because like what Gucci preaches is that I am "moving on," I am a better me - secure and confident (did the work on myself), I won't repeat/tolerate unhealthy relationship patterns, I am leading myself out of this mess and if you want to be married to me great hop on board.
One of the hardest things I had to do was hire a lawyer, scared me to death. My biggest screw ups around my wife involved legal stuff. But I know that playing legal hard ball back showed that I was not going to roll over. I know it scared my wife as well because it was part of the "moving on" process. Your friend sues you, how are you going to act? I understand the confusion and fine line this represents. I am getting a knot in my stomach just thinking about this. The nice guy, friend in me had a hard time taking this step.
My wife moving out/filing D papers was not a "friendly" gesture but it showed me she was moving on. It was actually a loving gesture for herself and in the long run for me. She broke the unhealthy patterns. Moving on means I care enough about myself to take care of myself. We project that out as being selfish, in a fog, and having a wall up. Moving on is saying to yourself that you matter. You are moving on to a healthier, wiser, stronger and richer place for yourself. People notice movement, the waiting place is a slow death and not attractive. Healthy, vibrant movement is a deal-maker. Move is a verb so go get busy.

Cheers


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thinker #1786039 06/19/09 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Thinker
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

You validate, without rescuing or softening -- in my opinion. But you leave them in their crucible, because that is where a lot of the hard introspective works gets done.


OK, so as I understand it, your references to "Rescuing" were to the places SP said or implied "Sure you'll be fine! You'll get plenty of dates! Your future life will be OK. etc"

Now I understand.


I think we give ourselves WAY too much credit. SP isn't softening it, he is putting it back on her IMO...he is contradicting her, she doesn't believe it and she wont, she'll just think "Why the hell is so f'in together?" She does not sound like a stupid or gullible woman. On the contrary, bright, a bit crass (hey, I like it) and tough...

And, I think the subtext is "Go, my love, live it out. Experience you're crucible. You'll survive and so will I"...

Again, I'm not sure how the sparring and sexual innuendo lead to real communication...but, we shall see.



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Quote:
2 weeks after she moves out, WAW will have custody of the children. How will a devastated, alone, miserable, suffering WAW be good for my children?


I won't be good and you will have no control over it. Sucks to be you. wink

That's the letting go of things you have no control over.


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Coach #1786049 06/19/09 05:06 PM
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Ahhh, but I do have (some) control over it. I can help her stay off the bottom of the well. "If you need me to...." will make it easier for her to watch my kids.

Although the other way could be good too. I could drop them off, they could be plopped in front of the television with a box of Froot Loops and a 12-pack of soda pop, while WAW spends 48 hours in her room. Yeah, that'll work.

I mean, does anyone really believe that on the Mon-Tues-Wed-Thurs nites that she's home, alone, eating cold left-over pizza, she's not going to be introspecting? Caricature much?

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Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
"Why are you doing so much better than I am?"

This was the opening gambit in a brief tel-convo with WAW last night.

Umm, sorry?

"You were devastated. It was disgusting. It -- "

Wow. I disgusted you.

" -- no, okay, bad word choice. It wasn't pleasant to see, that's for sure. But now. I don't get it. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop."


Possible translation:

"SP, you SEEM like you are changing and I notice this. It has my attention. I'm beginning to trust you enough to admit that I don't think I am doing as well with all of this. But I still reserve enough distrust to inquire about the other shoe."

I remember being in this place with Coach.

Looks like progress to me. Press on.
Cheers ~~~


Me45 H46
T25 M22
S21 & 19
D13
Separated and filed 8/08
Moved home 11/08



Happily ever after is one day at a time.
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