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Coach #1785964 06/19/09 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Coach
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Well, at least you're not reading VAMPIRE NOVELS while driving ,. . .


I got a great new idea for a TV series. It's about little people vampires with multiples. "Little Bella and Steven plus 7" Whaddya think??? cool


LMFAO!!!! laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

Coach #1785965 06/19/09 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Coach
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I understand what you are saying with this SP. Between caretaking to the point of enabling, and allowing them to crash so hard it could have long term impact.

I'm also worried that if I allowed my W to crash really hard, she wouldn't bounce.


Take the training wheels off they are for kids. Risk and reward when you take your hand off the seat and let go. Risk and rewards for both participants. Parenting your spouse is frustrating and a turn-off for both people. Rescuing and enabling is just a attempt to control someone else. The only control you have is self-control. Self-control is really the way to love yourself.
Lovingly detach. Differentiate.
My wife taught me this, "I wasn't put on this earth to be your wife." She is her own special, unique, challenged and growing person. We are different and stumble over different issues. Boundaries have helped me see where I end and she starts. We are both stronger and healthier as a result.
Cheers


I don't think this is the distinction I was talking about.

If I am friends with someone and I see they are in trouble, then I let them know I am there to support them. If they ask for help, I provide it (all assuming it is reasonable). It is detached, friendly, "loving" help and support.

So much of the DBing advice here, however, seems to be "When you see your WAS in trouble, then let them fall. If they ask for help, then make sure they know you are not there to catch them." ie, provide the WAS with less support than you would give a friend.

@Aliveandkicking: Looking back on it, my W and I certainly traded our fair share of emotional abuse. Recently with the WA part, I have been more on the receiving end, but no longer. I'm feeling pretty good and independent recently. W is not abusing, just crumbing inward on herself.


Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2
M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08
Walking away from a bad situation.

My Sitch

Strength and Compassion
No Resentment
Coach #1785968 06/19/09 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
Well, at least you're not reading VAMPIRE NOVELS while driving ,. . .


I got a great new idea for a TV series. It's about little people vampires with multiples. "Little Bella and Steven plus 7" Whaddya think??? cool


Another proud moment for Mrs. Coach.


Me45 H46
T25 M22
S21 & 19
D13
Separated and filed 8/08
Moved home 11/08



Happily ever after is one day at a time.
Thinker #1785971 06/19/09 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Thinker


So much of the DBing advice here, however, seems to be "When you see your WAS in trouble, then let them fall. If they ask for help, then make sure they know you are not there to catch them." ie, provide the WAS with less support than you would give a friend.


I don't know what threads YOU'RE readin', but all I ever see is "rub their feet, clean the house, light-the-scented-candles and care for the kids while they take a bath, be-their-best-friend, etc.

Blccccch.
sick laugh

I think sometimes the best thing you can do when you love someone is to let them fail, and to teach themselves to get back up again. Especially if the "failing" is a natural consequence of some poor decision(s) on their part.

Puppy

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"And.. allowing the emotionally withdrawn spouse to initiate, to ask for what they need, not trying to fix them or fix things for them. Allowing growth with oneself.. and for the one you pledged your life during one of the most painful times in life."

Gypsy-
IMO this quote from you sums up one of the most difficult aspects of this whole thing.

While rationally I've recognized it as the current reality in my broken M, its so hard to resist the daily thoughts and impulses, the fight, not flight mentality, that comes so naturally.

I wanted to problem solve this most important problem I've ever faced the way I have and do with other aspects of my life. Its terrible to remind oneself over and over, the only thing to do now is nothing. Nothing for them, everything for me. And that nothing for them is also everything.

Thanks for spelling out this reminder to us all.


Me 30
H 33
together:10 years
married:5 years
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living apart 5 mos and counting
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Doing nothing, in these circumstances, is actually doing something!


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Greek #1785974 06/19/09 04:00 PM
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SP - I am just wondering why, when she started asking "how can it be that you are doing so well?" that you didn't just tell her the truth.

"It is because I was forced into an immediate program of self-reflection when you said you were divorcing me. I had no choice but to learn how to cope with my new future. To learn that, I had to read a lot of books, talk to my counselor, and begin getting help and support from other divorced people. I have learned so much in these few months and I really am a changed man and person. At first, I was honestly only doing these things hoping to win you back. When I could see that wasn't going to work, I had to change my focus onto helping myself cope only and letting go the idea that you will ever come back. From there, I've had to make even more progress. This process has been more painful, but more enlightening, than anything I've ever gone through. You would benefit by doing a similar self-reflection process to help you cope with your future and your decisions, too".

By claiming you "don't know what she's talking about" while she is clearly confused by your ability to retain your mojo, you are being dishonest. And she could use the same tools, she really could. She is going to have an easier transition if she can really study up on things.

If you told her the above and she rejects it, then well, that's that. But what if she is open to an honest conversation about it? What if you could recommend some well-placed titles that you know would "speak" to her, and she would be willing to read them because she is seeing you do so well?

Honesty is always best.

You don't have to fork over all your DB knowledge or techniques. But being honest about the self-reflection and study is better than being vague about it..."oh I don't know why I've got so much mojo, I just do...tra la la" is not honest.

DQ

Last edited by DanceQueen; 06/19/09 04:01 PM.
DanceQueen #1785975 06/19/09 04:02 PM
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I agree, DQ!

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Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: Thinker


So much of the DBing advice here, however, seems to be "When you see your WAS in trouble, then let them fall. If they ask for help, then make sure they know you are not there to catch them." ie, provide the WAS with less support than you would give a friend.


I don't know what threads YOU'RE readin', but all I ever see is "rub their feet, clean the house, light-the-scented-candles and care for the kids while they take a bath, be-their-best-friend, etc.

Blccccch.
sick laugh


There I agree with you 100% Puppy!

This over the top devotion is also not how you would treat a friend.

But that is not what SP was doing for his wife. He was saying "If you ever really need me, I'll be there to help you. You are not completely alone" That's what you would say to a friend.

By criticizing this as "rescuing" it seems like the only acceptable answer would be "You are right, You'll be all alone! Just you and your cats! Have a nice life! etc" I don't think you would treat a good friend this way.

Quote:
I think sometimes the best thing you can do when you love someone is to let them fail, and to teach themselves to get back up again. Especially if the "failing" is a natural consequence of some poor decision(s) on their part.


Agreed

However, I don't agree if this strays into the realm of punishment - ie "You are divorcing me, so therefore I won't be "friendi" with you in the future."

Last edited by Thinker; 06/19/09 04:34 PM.

Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2
M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08
Walking away from a bad situation.

My Sitch

Strength and Compassion
No Resentment
Thinker #1786005 06/19/09 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Thinker


This over the top devotion is also not how you would treat a friend.

But that is not what SP was doing for his wife. He was saying "If you ever really need me, I'll be there to help you. You are not completely alone" That's what you would say to a friend.

By criticizing this as "rescuing" it seems like the only acceptable answer would be "You are right, You'll be all alone! Just you and your cats! Have a nice life! etc" I don't think you would treat a good friend this way.



Oh, I know, and I wasn't referring to SP at all with the first comment.

As for the second, I respectfully disagree. I don't think you say "Have a nice life!" by any means, but I do think sometimes you have to say/project some version of: "I understand this is tough." or "I agree; this is tough on all of us." or "I can see how difficult that must be for you."

You validate, without rescuing or softening -- in my opinion. But you leave them in their crucible, because that is where a lot of the hard introspective works gets done.

Puppy

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