Gonna Get Me A Mojo Hand

[orangedog]

There is no Db'ing better than what you just did.

OrangeDog only wishes he could do as well.

You, Mr. SP, are The Man.

[Coach]

SP, Nice dialouge. You can now teach loving detachment.

She pauses. "I would have thought you'd fight for it if you did."

SP's Thought Balloon: Whoa! What the h*ll was that? Anyone see where that shot came from?

Did you not see where that shot came from? Like Kett said I would be careful about being too cool without balancing it with some "fight" for her. Do you understand what and why she is looking for you to fight for her? The clues, the clues, the clues.
.. -. ... . -.-. ..- .-. .. - -.--

Cheers

[AlexEN]

Kett,

This is very interesting to me; as a DAM, I didn't see this in the exchange...

There's gotta be a balance there, between not pursuing and being SO accepting of the fait accompli that you actually convey the wrong message (to wit, "I don't care enough to fight for you".

What in it would lead you to believe Mrs. SP might interpret SP's responses as indicating he doesn't/didn't care enough to fight for her? From where I sit, this strikes the balance in a way I only wish I could... In fact, I'm thinking about gettin' me some Fosters and a script for Ambien...

Do you want me to fight for it?

“Well, yes. {Beat} Well. I mean. I did. You could have. You just let it go. But now. Well. I mean –“

What makes you think I haven’t been?

(Silence. WAW literally shudders and pulls the blankets close around her.)

Don’t be afraid. I’m not standing in your way. But don’t mistake my acceptance of things with a desire for those things. Do you follow?

-AlexEN

Darn it... Just saw Coach's comments, so clearly I missed it...

[aliveandkicking]

“Will I know that?”

C’mon, who are you trying to kid? You know that already.

“And if I know that, what happens if you’re not alone?”

Then, my friend, it will suck to be you.

(And Smiley’s Person kisses Mrs. SP on the forehead and sends her back to sleep.)

Scary smooth. Trust me, it already sucks to be her but she's one lucky lady from my POV.

[Kettricken]

It wasn't just this exchange. Honestly, I don't really see how he could have handled it better, under the circs, and I don't mean to nitpick.

I hate to out myself like this, but really, my reaction was just kind of a "duh!" female gut response, based on my perceptions of the whole of reported interactions with Mrs. Smiley.

I know he's trying to be as clear as possible while walking the tightrope between pursuing and 'don't let the door hit ya in the butt on your way out', and more power to him. But phrases like (paraphrased), "I almost hope you do leave, because it's what you seem to need" .... the line between detachment and (percevied) indifference is fine. A person might believe and claim she wants a martyr who will sacrifice his well-being and self-interests for hers .... but at the same time, irrational as it may be, there's another little voice crying, "Well .... he really must not care/want me that much if he lets me go this easily."

This is why I find myself conflicted about some aspects of DB. GAL, act "As If", don't pursue, no R talks ... all fine to a point, especially when done in the service of personal growth and autonomy as opposed to attempted manipulation. But any system that encourages systemic deception about one's authentic emotions -- intense and messy and "pressuring" as they may be -- runs the risk of causing a whole new set of problems, however many problems it may solve. IMHO.

[aliveandkicking]

But any system that encourages systemic deception about one's authentic emotions -- intense and messy and "pressuring" as they may be -- runs the risk of causing a whole new set of problems, however many problems it may solve. IMHO.

Yes, so many have heard "you seem to be doing so well without me." It is quite the mindf*ck.

I think the bottom line though is that healthy attraction is not based on need or guilt...I mean SP can't fill her void. If "fighting for her" overtly made her feel loved and cared about enough to "take him back" that dynamic would probably be a bit twisted.

If however, a stable, secure, attentive, healthy SP rouses Mrs. SP to come back to the table, she will be showing up as 50% and they'll have a better shot at reconciling (which is a major undertaking, as we all know).

I don't know if that makes sense...Mrs. SP has some work to do to be able to meet SP where he is.

Forgive my rambling, trying to learn from this too.

[Kettricken]

I don't disagree. I see three ways this kind of thing plays out:

"OMG, OMG, don't leave me, I love you ssoooooooooooo much I can't breathe without you how could you do this to me what about the kids OMG I'll never love anyone but you don't leeeeeeeeeave me ....."

"I love you and want the best for you. If you leave, I will not stalk you, ruin you financially, or turn the kids against you. Whatever happens, I will survive and thrive. But you need to know, I love you very much, I am serious about our marriage and am willing to work hard with you so we're both getting what we want and need out of it. My life would be lessened if you, in all your uniqueness, weren't in it, and I would much rather thrive WITH you than separately."

"Eh, I can do better. 3ws.match.com. No big deal to me either way."

Obviously, that's massively over-simplified and hyperbolic. But as a general guide .... I think ya gotta aim for the middle, and not err too far into #3 inadvertently.

No, healthy attraction is not based on need and guilt. And no healthy relationship is based on leveraging the OPs narcissism. For sure.

But still ... it does SEEM easier to start fresh when we've collaborated with our spouse in garbaging up our current relationship. BAG-gage. I think it's possible that believing she is uniquely valued and not readily replacable might go some distance toward balancing those scales and motivating her toward the crow-eating and hard work necessary to back away from the precipice of divorce.

And I think that's the message she's getting.

[aliveandkicking]

I think it's possible that believing she is uniquely valued and not readily replacable might go some distance toward balancing those scales and motivating her toward the crow-eating and hard work necessary to back away from the precipice of divorce.

Yes, feeling replaceable sucks, I know.

This is so tricky...I don't want H taking for granted that I will move on but I also want him to feel that he's "the one" feeling...

Ultimately, they have to find their own truths. There is so much blatant insecurity, don't want to fuel it and don't want to be a sucker to it either.

This is tough stuff.

[Sara]

Good God! Enough of this talking. When you are just going to start caressing her and end up making love? Teary eyes may not seem like a desire for sexual release, but it is.

[AlexEN]

Kett,

Yes... That is the fineline that, while so obvious, seems to take the longest to achieve in RL.

This is why I find myself conflicted about some aspects of DB. GAL, act "As If", don't pursue, no R talks ... all fine to a point, especially when done in the service of personal growth and autonomy as opposed to attempted manipulation. But any system that encourages systemic deception about one's authentic emotions -- intense and messy and "pressuring" as they may be -- runs the risk of causing a whole new set of problems, however many problems it may solve. IMHO.

It's one of those easier said than done things EVEN when you do get it -- especially given by crises that are going on in parallel. Whether or not DB'ing succeeds, the only changes one should make are the ones (a) that are "authentic", or (b) if made to "please" someone else, are NOT "inauthentic", which, despite the double-negative are not the same. VERY Stupid example for the latter... I can hate making the kids beds or doing the laundry, but its a change I can make even though if given my druthers I'd avoid each of them like the plague. But, ingratiating oneself by doing things that are contrary to one's authentic self because you think it will draw back the WAS IS manipulative and won't have a long half-life.

-AlexEN

P.S. Kett & A&K, that was a great exchange while I was typing the above... I hope Coach finds some of it worthy of quoting...