1) I feel special when a man shows genuine interest in what I have to say
more to come...
2) In that same vein, I feel special when a man actually remembers a detail or details from some conversation past and takes some congruent action...he remembers I said my favorite book was x and a year later a quote from x shows up in a card to me...can be exhibited in so many ways.
3) I feel special when a man compliments me specifically and unique to me...rather than a general or typical compliment
4) I love a little chivalry
5) I feel special when I am liked enough to be included in "guy" activities (though I definitely like having separate things going on)...just want to feel like a peer not the ball and chain.
6) I feel special when a man opens up to me and shares his vulnerability (again really depends on the guy, the circumstances and the relationship)
7) I feel special when a man is clearly willing and able to protect and provide for me (if its antiquated so what? it is the truth)...I like feeling safe and secure with my guy.
8) I feel special when that same secure guy can accept my input and isn't threatened by a little intellectual challenge or looking at things from a different point of view.
9) I really dig when a man has something to teach me and will take the time to do it.
10) When it comes to intimacy, I want to feel like I am not an object yet, I want to feel like the sexiest woman on the planet...when I figure out how precisely a man can elicit that feeling consistently, I will gladly accept my $10,000,000 and share that info with you. In the mean time...don't ogle other women, don't ever make comments about your woman's weight or "defects" or compare her to other women or past lovers. Don't over do the sex talk (of course everyone's different)...don't harp on things she's said she isn't into and act like you'll just die if you can't get her to do some crazy painful thing you saw on youp*rn (have I gone too far here?)...
Maybe these should all be reserved for pertaining to marriage, not exactly first date stuff.
Ok, that is some seriously personal stuff I'm sharing, not sure it is reflective of how many or most other women feel. But probably.
After the kids were born, we stopped referring to each other as H and W. We became "Mom and Dad". That is one thing that I think helped the OM get in with my W. He saw her as an individual woman where I started seeing her as Mom and associated all the domestic things that went along with that title to her.
Any thoughts on what makes a woman feel like a WOMAN?
Oooooohhhhhh........Stuck!!!! Please tell me you did not call her "mom" and she did not call you "dad". That is a horrible habit that some couples get into and it causes the romantic department to suffer, IMHO. She is not your mother and you sure don't need to see her in that light. I know you may not be saying this at all. But even thinking of each other as "parents", and as you said....in domestic things all the time is not healthy b/c it ruins something special.....like the sexual appetite.....I would think. At least I think it does for a woman. She is mother to her kids and she doesn't want to feel like a mother to the man she has sex with. She want to be seen and talked to and treated and thought about as an individual, sexy, desirable, beautiful woman. No wonder she turned to another man who showed her that kind of attention! Even with her loving you and being a devoted mother, etc., she still has that need of what I described to be fulfilled.....if not by you....then somebody else. If only couples would see this and not fall into that "trap" of everything being all about the kids and not keeping their own personal R fresh and sexual.
I had a quick question. When you were sorting out your own thoughts coming out of the fog and the high of the OM, aside from space, was there anything else your H did that you appreciated?
I knew he was really struggling during that time. He was quiet and I could tell he was in pain. He did not have the DR tools to work with and did not know how to handle the stitch. It was when he decided he could not force me to love him....or stay with him....that he begin to back off and stop putting pressure on me. But there were other things that he did also.
One important thing he did was to try to act as normal as he could (under the circumstances) and go about doing what he normally would have done.....apart from trying to show physical affection to me. He knew I was nowhere ready for him to be touching me.
Another thing he did was when I tried to make small talk or important talk, he would look me in my eyes and listen and nod his head and let me know that what I was saying was important. Always before, he would not take his eyes off the TV and I felt he never paid any attention to what I had to say.
As you know, I have some health problems and there were several times he would bring my supper tray or something to drink.....and I knew he was not trying to "win" me over.....he was being kind and helping me b/c he knew I was not feeling well. I could always tell the difference.
He never complained about me not wanting to do anything. I didn't want to go anywhere and usually did not feel like doing anything to the house or cooking or any of the other things I used to do. The combination of being sick and going through the withdrawal of the EA was bad, but he put no pressure on me whatsoever. He was kind, but not pushy.
When I look back now and realize how awful it must have been on him......you can't imagine how terrible it makes me feel. And the thoughts of the OM.......it makes me ill now. I still can't believe I did what I did! That was not me! So, there is hope that your wife will pull out of it but it won't be quickly. The fact that she is able to lie on the same bed with you and watch TV is beyound what I could do when I was going through my stuff. Some women can and others can't. As long as she is moving her hand when you barely brush up against it......that is a clear sign she is not ready for your touch at all.
My advice it to stop calling her anything but her name. Don't refer to her as "mom" and sure don't call her any endearments. Just call her by her name. In time, maybe you can call her a pet name, but just don't make it "Mom".
Talk at ya later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Things came to a head about 7 weeks ago and I told her that I was her H and I was sick and tired of being treated like a sex offender by her when she was the one who cheated on me. I told her that I was fine to watch our Ds on my own and if she was that uncomfortable around me, then she should leave. It was a long talk and after it all, she sincerely thanked me for it. I was shocked to say the least.
Super tired. But, having read most of your thread, this is what stood out to me.
I was done with H and really pretty revolted sexually. There was no OM but I fantasized and sort of strung myself along that way.
When H started to change (unfortunately his method was to tap into MY insecurities and bring up other women being attracted to him etc), I noticed and flailed trying to figure out what to do. I loved him, didn't want the marriage to end but did not know how to connect.
She is probably suffering from depression. She is harboring feelings for OM and not just what she feels for him, but, guilt shame, self-loathing...
Have you considered Retrouvaille...I really think I would have done it if H had suggested it.
I can't believe the fog I was in. I was so miserable and wanted out. I think that is a sign of one's own issues and depression. And usually, the person who hooks up with someone with issues, has issues him/herself...YKWIM?
She thanked you for that talk because it was a dose of honesty, reality...you gave her a reason to respect you (major for me with H)...he literally had to walk for me to feel respect for him again. He could have done it in the R BUT our dynamic was too screwy and we needed an earthquake to shake it up. She only feels worse about herself when you let her disrespect you (trust me on this)...
I want to see if this is making sense and then more if you want it...
stuck... overall I think citygirl has it right on. Wish I had had her advice myself back then.
you do have to do some detachment and self work and let your wife to do her own. if she comes back to you on her own then good; but in the meanwhile you have to do all you can for you.
I think the whole 'changing' thing and doing the 180's and stuff, that can only go on for so long before you get burnt out from not taking care of yourself. in the end you come to apoint where you think 'im making all the effort and they are not'. and then you must decide: do i keep going or just begin taking up the loose ends of my life? its a very individual decision but no marrage can work or be fixed with only one side...
looking back on mistakes is something we all do but the truth is sometimes you cant change them, or the change is too late. all you can do is take the knowledge with you into the next relationship should there be one.
i dont know. it might be best to take a break and do the friend thing for a while, demonstrate the man you are thru that medium with truly no expectations; get to know one another again. in my opinion thats almost impossible to do with another person in volved of they were the reason for the break.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
Oooooohhhhhh........Stuck!!!! Please tell me you did not call her "mom" and she did not call you "dad". That is a horrible habit that some couples get into and it causes the romantic department to suffer, IMHO. She is not your mother and you sure don't need to see her in that light. I know you may not be saying this at all. But even thinking of each other as "parents", and as you said....in domestic things all the time is not healthy b/c it ruins something special.....like the sexual appetite.....I would think.
You are soooo right. This is one of the things that my wife had said before she moved out. She felt like I thought of her just as the mother of our childer, and didn't treat her as a wife.
I didn't understand fully what that meant until recently.
Stuck - don't make the same DAM mistake that I had. You still have a great chance with her in the house. My coach had said "do whatever it takes to keep her in the house."
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I'm trying my best so far and she seems receptive to things as friends, just not anything more. Have to admit though, not being able to take care of my "urges" is getting tough. I'm trying to be as cold and detached as she is.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.