Swimming against the current - PH in piecing

[Silver Fox]

Hey Pearl,

Thanks for posting. Feel free to visit my thread any time - don't be concerned about what others say - it's my thread afterall. Besides, I think he kind of apologized. I haven't gotten any responses to my latest posts and I need them - especially since I'm pretty much throwing in the towel.

I see you have many doubts about your "new" R with your BF. It's to be expected - you went through alot and worked hard to make him turn his head around. Just sit back and let him court you. Men like the challenge. Not responding back with an ILY too was definitely noticed. It's his turn to work hard now.

[pearlharbr]

Silver, FWIW, my opinion of your H hasn't changed one bit. Honestly I think you deserve much, much better. Let Catbitch deal with all his financial and emotional crap from now on. I also agree with what Puppy posted to you on markhaving prob's thread - I could not/would not patiently wait out an MLC for years. But that's me.

You may be on to something, your biggest 180 would be to go along with the D. At this point I just want you to look out for your best interests and not agree to anything because you want to be nice or feel sorry for H. It sounds like he is just trying to butter you up to get the terms he wants. Remember that you need to put yourself first because no one else will.

If you ever want to talk in the alt you can always gmail me (hint hint).

On a different topic, I hope your recital went well! I miss our dance convos in DA Club. I skipped my dance classes tonight for only the second time this year. Major bummer but when the headache hits I'm just not good for anything. Sigh.

I am enjoying xBF making plans for us. I just know (and we have discussed) that he is not a natural planner. So that means in the long run that we would likely go back to me making the plans and him going along with them. I said I was fine with that because I do enjoy planning, especially vacations, but I would like him to continue to be responsible for some outings so I don't feel like it's always on me. I have always maintained that it's the thought that counts and when he takes the time to make plans it shows that he is thinking about what I would like to do or what we would have fun doing together.

Which reminds me, I still haven't read 5LL yet. Argh, need to overcome procrastination...

[pearlharbr]

Thought we were communicating well but apparently I was mistaken. While reading through xBF's work email tonight I discovered that he joined a summer volleyball league that he never mentioned to me. And the kicker is that OW was included on the invite email. He previously had told me that she was never involved with volleyball. So another lie and yet another thing I have discovered on my own.

I know it's a small thing, but it's always one small thing after another. I sent him an email expressing how upset I am over learning about this and said if he is not committed to total transparency I'm finished. I'm tired of having to play detective and drag things out of him. I'm tired of the excuse that "I didn't think that counted." He is not stupid and I will not lower my standards any further. It's time to shape up or ship out.

[Sam1007]

Was OW included on an invite from someone else? If so, xBF can't help he's on the same distribution list as OW. Maybe she just joined trying to get in contact with him? I guess I am just playing the "benefit of the doubt" card here, because I don't know exactly all the details or history, but I think you need to be careful not to jump to conclusions at this stage.

Having said that, I am not advocating you lowering your standards, just trying to remain objective.

[MrBond]

Is there a reason why he had to tell you about a volleyball league that he signed up for?

I understand that he knows that you check his email, so maybe his having the OW's name was an afterthought.

It's up to you how you want to read it. I mean, if he wanted to continue with the OW, I don't think he would have used an email address that he knows you would check.

[pearlharbr]

We had a huge blowout tonight, or rather, I had a huge blowout and he just sat there on the other end of the phone.

Re: volleyball league, he swears he told me before about it and said if OW was there he wouldn't do it. I don't remember him telling me this but admittedly I have forgotten things like this in the past. Stuck, he has to tell me about these activities because OW was a coworker and they spent a lot of time together in the company bowling league and other similar activities. Plus he agreed to discuss these things as part of the transparency plan.

The more important issue is that he continues to tell me half truths when asked direct questions. Has OW ever played volleyball with you? First the answer was "no." Then I discovered proof to the contrary. Now the answer is "well, she did play a few times on the weekends but she was never on the teams."

This is what I am tired of, the half truths or lies of omission in response to a simple black and white question. Then I discover later there's more to the story and he tries to back pedal. His answer is "I'm telling you the whole truth now." But I've heard this before. Every time he said he was telling the truth he wasn't. So why should I believe him this time?

I don't want to be anyone's mother. I decided many years ago to not have children. So I certainly do not want to act like his mother, always checking up on what he's doing, who he's with. He is setting me up in this role by not being up front with me to begin with.

His pat response is that he can't change anything in the past, all he can do is try his best now. That's all well and good, but that's always been his response for every damn thing. He definitely subscribes to the philosophy of doing whatever he wants then apologizing for it later when I believe it's much better to just not do the bad thing in the first place.

It devolved from there. I yelled, I cried, I was silent, I talked calmly. And it drives me crazy that there is no emotion in his voice and he never talks about any feelings he may be experiencing. It paints a picture of not caring to me. Yes, I have told him this.

There were more things discussed but it's late and I'm physically and emotionally exhausted.

FWIW, I don't think he's seeing OW or that he wants to see her. For now. But what happens when we're going through tough times or he's mad at me for something? That's where the pattern of "but it's just X" scares me. No contact period turned into "but it's just bowling." After that it was "but it was just to tell her to stop contacting me." What's next? "But it was just to catch up..." "But you were out of town..." "But it was just sex..."

[MrBond]

PH,

Just my 2cents, but since he decided to re-commit to the relationship, the tone of some of your posts almost expected him to cheat on you. It almost became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think myself and some others responded that you've got to give him some breathing room or else what just happened was going to happen.

True he was wrong in not telling you about the OW playing before. But in the conversation you described above, I can see how he and you are not communicating well. You two are talking like...well, a typical male and female.

Honestly, if he knows that you read his email and has been transparent about everything so far, it would seem his interactions are just stupid mistakes. He doesn't understand the full extent of how hurt you were because quite honestly, men don't deal with emotions. I think his silence was because 1) he didn't know what else to say, and 2) he felt that if he did say anything to defend himself, you would have jumped all over him anyway.

I could see myself before in that sitch between my W and I.

"It devolved from there. I yelled, I cried, I was silent, I talked calmly. And it drives me crazy that there is no emotion in his voice and he never talks about any feelings he may be experiencing. It paints a picture of not caring to me. Yes, I have told him this."

He can't talk about feelings because he doesn't know how. In all your conversations that you've described in your postings, he doesn't talk about feelings in general. Why should this time be any different?

Maybe you two need to go to a couples counselor to discuss how to talk to each other or read one of the Venus/Mars books.

If I wanted to do something behind my W's back, I certainly wouldn't use an email address that she has access to.

"He is setting me up in this role by not being up front with me to begin with."

I don't think he set you up for the role. You're taking it on voluntarily. It's your choice. I think if he were to take the dominant role in your R, you wouldn't like it very much and go over his head. Hope you don't take that the wrong way. It just seems like you're a much more aggressive person than he is in the R side.

Just my thoughts.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Just my thoughts.

And I largely agree with them too, PH. You even still call him "xBF" -- what's up with that??

As a man, I can only tell you that it FEELS from here like you're setting him up to fail.

Puppy

[pearlharbr]

Apparently I have a much stronger skull than I thought because you keep hitting me with the 2x4 and I still don't listen. Argh.

So deep breaths.

I did call him this morning and apologized for overreacting last night. I know I get worked up and just can't stop once I get going. We did have a nice chat while he finished his drive to work.

Stuck, you're right, he doesn't know how to talk about his feelings. It's not realistic or fair for me to expect this to change all of sudden. I am just going to have to buckle down and work on my impatience.

This is precisely why I want to go to a counselor and am frustrated that he thinks we don't need to go to one. I see us going round and round with the same types of conversations not getting anywhere because we don't know how to effectively communicate with each other. He seems to think that we will figure it out on our own. This is a fundamental difference between us: I like to go to a class or do some type of research when I want to learn something new, he wants to wing it. I am trying to be open about trying it his way first but honestly I don't have much faith that it will work.

We were supposed to have our weekly R appt tonight but I told him I think yesterday was enough angst for one week and we both could probably use a break. We do have plans to go out tomorrow night, something fun. Then he will be gone for 10 days and I think it will be a good break from each other.

Puppy, yes, I'm still calling him xBF for lack of a better term. I don't feel like we are together at this point. If we are starting over, building a new R, we certainly are not at the point where I would consider him my BF and all the commitment that implies. And yet we are more than dating. We both have agreed not to see other people while we are working through things. So what label is there? I tend not to use labels in RL convos, just refer to him by his name. Do you have a suggestion of another acronym I can use here?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

He's your boyfriend. Wouldn't that be what you would call him if you were "more than dating" someone else, from scratch?

Get that other foot off the platform, Pearl, and hop on the train. You may decided somewhere down the track that the ride isn't taking you where you're going, but they DO have other stops down the line, y'know.

Puppy