Swimming against the current - PH in piecing

[MrBond]

Pearl,

I second PDT. Your BF has been totally honest with you which is alot more than 95% of our spouses on here. Learn to trust him again. Just take it a day at a time.
All in all, great news in your sitch.

[pearlharbr]

Thanks for sticking with me stuck, Puppy, Jon and Kenn. Hmm, have I done something to offend the women?

Trying to remember more from Sat night's big convo. I asked about starting counseling. He said he didn't know I was ready to start but if so then he'll start looking for counselors.

He feels frustrated because he's trying and doesn't feel like I'm acknowledging it or I don't think it's enough. So I told him that I do know he's trying but it isn't enough for me and I don't know if it will ever be enough. I don't want to sound harsh but that's the truth. I still don't know if I can or will ever get past this.

I told him I don't think he truly understands how hard this is for me. He is asking me to risk going through the worst time in my life again by trusting him and being with him. It is going to take time and effort.

So that was about all we could handle for one night.

Sunday I texted and asked if he wanted to go check out some open houses with me. We did that in the afternoon then hung out at the house and watched some tv. At one point I did lean against him while we were sitting on the sofa. It was nice.

Last night he came over to pick up some pretzels I baked. I thought he would just take them and go but he wanted to eat one for dinner right away. We ended up watching a couple more episodes of Lost. I wonder if we're spending too much time together now but I would have just watched tv or a movie tonight anyway and we just hung out, no R talk.

Well, a little bit of R talk. I asked who was on the volleyball team he wants to join this summer. J (coworker) and C (his gf) who I've met before and a female friend of C's. Do I need to meet her? He laughed and said I can if I want to but she's in her 40s. So what does that have to do with anything? And she has a boyfriend. Apparently that doesn't matter. Oops, yes, I did say that out loud. A pained look flashed across his face but he still smiled. Before he left he wrote down all his email and phone passwords for me.

Today he asked if he can come by tonight after my dance classes and drop off the letter to OW.

Yes, he seems to be saying and doing all the right things. It's good but I've been disappointed by him so much lately that I don't trust it to continue like this. I guess only time will tell.

[JayMan]

You notice that as you give guidance, he jumps right in? I told you!

Seriously, he is taking some pretty big drastic steps - they may be at your nudging, but he's doing it. I wonder sometimes if you were this clear with him before? Maybe this is HOW he expresses how much he cares for you?

Anyway, I think the letter deserves a reward - maybe a quick hug or something. If that's too much, how about CINNAMON pretzels, mmmmmm? Yes, I know what he did, but we're looking forward, because looking backward doesn't accomplish anything except to make you run into stuff.

See ya!

[Kenn]

Thanks for sticking with me stuck, Puppy, Jon and Kenn.

those guys are giving great advice... I am just the sarcastic humor

Hmm, have I done something to offend the women?

They just haven't found you yet or they are confused by the "guy" mentality and are sitting on the sidelines taking notes... It's a Mars thing

I asked about starting counseling. He said he didn't know I was ready to start but if so then he'll start looking for counselors.

this is a Mars thing... bet you thought you had made it very clear? He is acting out while you are thinking out. Lets assume he is committed and sincerely regets what he did... now he is back in guy mode where if you don't spell it out ..he will not get it. No kidding ... yo have to be very careful not to fall into that trap of "you should have known what I meant"

He feels frustrated because he's trying and doesn't feel like I'm acknowledging it or I don't think it's enough. So I told him that I do know he's trying but it isn't enough for me and I don't know if it will ever be enough. I don't want to sound harsh but that's the truth. I still don't know if I can or will ever get past this.

this is key PH.... you need to get pay attention to some of the advice from people who have gotten back together. Friend of mine is going through this right now. Power shift, and feeling shift. Seriously think about how long you took workig to get him back. do you think it will take less time to let him work backinto your heart? You need to give him that time. You decided to try and get him back, you decided to let him come back and now you have to decide to give it time. All the reasons and feelings that made you want him in the past are there, they are now jsut in the back ground because his is backand you can focus on other feeling instead of the loss.

I told him I don't think he truly understands how hard this is for me.

Probably not.... But how did you feel when he left the first time? If he had said the same thing about you, would you hve said no I really do. I have realized the things I did wrong and want a second chance???????

It is going to take time and effort.

yes it is! and this is where keeping a journal is just as important as it was during the seperation. Write down how you feel or the fun times each day or week. and then after a few weeks look back. If the fun times and intimate time are increasing then you are headed in the right direction. Just like when you first started dating

At one point I did lean against him while we were sitting on the sofa. It was nice.

uh oh!!!!! she is starting to enjoy him again hummmm????

He laughed and said I can if I want to but she's in her 40s.

what the H@#$ does that mean???? I don't like him already!!!!!!

So what does that have to do with anything? And she has a boyfriend.

Before he left he wrote down all his email and phone passwords for me.

nice

Today he asked if he can come by tonight after my dance classes and drop off the letter to OW.

double nice

Yes, he seems to be saying and doing all the right things.

ya think LOL!

It's good but I've been disappointed by him so much lately that I don't trust it to continue like this. I guess only time will tell.

you know PH.... so could the next three guys you date. The unfortunate reality of life is that 60% of people have interludes (or whatever you want to call them). You can take a shot on a guy that you know you have fun and are compatible with (8 years) if you believe that he is remoseful and you have both made the necessary changes OR you can go out and take a shot on the next guy you meet. You are right ... there are a lot of guys on this site that got it and made changes... but count the number of guys you see and then look at the statistics that 50% of marrages end in divorce. The majority of guys are just moving on and into the next relationship. Life is a crap shoot, your feelings for him will come back if you leave the door open, your trust will come back over time and if it doesn't work out - your friends will always be here for you and will always respect you for your committment!!!!!!

Oh and tell your boyfriend he is a punk for making fun of people over 40 LOL!

[pearlharbr]

Jon, you're still wanting your own batch of pretzels, huh? Found out they're not nearly as good the next day. Bummer. But if you're ever out this way I promise I'll make some for you.

Well, no, I didn't spell everything out for him before because I wanted him to take some initiative. I still feel like if I give him a checklist that's all he's going to do, the bare minimum. I want to know that he's really invested in the process. But then I set myself up for disappointment because he doesn't do anything. As my best friend said he needs to try to get an 'A' for effort, even if that's just asking me what I want/need. It's hard to find the balance.

And I am giving him a hug every day when he leaves.

[pearlharbr]

Kenn, where to start?

I do really try to spell everything out very clearly. And he admits that I have told him the same thing several times but he "just didn't think that's what I meant." Sigh. Since I told him I am finished repeating myself and I will not go over things again he has been much better about doing things. Plus I did give him a specific list for the transparency plan and he is checking those things off one by one.

You decided to try and get him back, you decided to let him come back and now you have to decide to give it time.

At first I wanted him back, but then I only tried to get him back to be able to be in control and be the one to do the leaving. I never thought I would ever really give him another chance. And I only agreed to that out of guilt and a sense of duty. Nothing more.

All the reasons and feelings that made you want him in the past are there, they are now jsut in the back ground because his is backand you can focus on other feeling instead of the loss.

Maybe. I just think this is a bigger obstacle than either of us imagined it would be. One of my girlfriends asked me months ago, when I told her about DBing, how would I ever get over it and trust him again. I told her I couldn't think about it then and would just stay in the moment and cross that bridge when I came to it. Now I'm looking at the bridge and discovering I may be afraid of heights so it might be better to just change my route.

But you're right, I did like being near him the other day. I just wonder if it's because it's what I want or because it's familiar.

You can take a shot on a guy that you know you have fun and are compatible with (8 years) if you believe that he is remoseful and you have both made the necessary changes OR you can go out and take a shot on the next guy you meet.

My problem with this is that I know xBF is a cheater. I can never un-know that. With someone new I wouldn't assume that he's a cheater because it's a clean slate. True the chances are good that something like this might happen again but at least I would know more about myself and what I can do to prevent it from happening. Sometimes a fresh start sounds like a much better idea.

Oh and tell your boyfriend he is a punk for making fun of people over 40 LOL!

The funny thing is that I am older than him so I know that he doesn't have a problem with older women. So why would he think that just because she's 40ish it means he obviously wouldn't be interested? Makes no sense. OW is not physically his type at all (well, what he has always professed was his type) and I am way hotter than her so yes, I am going to be wary of any new woman in his life.

[pearlharbr]

Question:

Tonight is the last day of bowling league. Long time readers will remember that xBF and OW were in the league together but on different teams. I insisted that he quit before I would consider giving him another chance and he did quit. However I just found out that he didn't exactly quit, he just started making excuses for not going.

Anwyay, he told me that he is playing in a poker tourney at his apartment complex tonight and asked if I wanted to come over and watch. I declined and explained that I have a ticket for a concert tonight. He didn't seem phased by my explanation and we chatted about the show I'm seeing.

I'm wondering if I should ask him if it's important that I come over and spend the evening with him if it's going to be hard emotionally (OW has asked if he is coming to bowling because she wants an explanation of what went wrong in their R so she can have closure. ).

On one hand I want to be supportive. On the other hand, I do already have (not cheap) plans. We have spent time together the past three days. I do want to maintain some distance but not appear cold.

And he did bring the letter over last night. It says he is choosing to be with me for love and not out of duty or guilt; he does not want and will not respond to any future contact from her; and he will not keep anything from me including the contents of this letter. Printed and signed it in front of me and sealed the envelope, left it for me to mail.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Go be with him.

[sandycay]

PH,

I am a girl.... I see your new to Piecing.

My take on a few things. Shots across the bow don't help reconciling.

He feels like poop, you don't need to help him out there.. Trust me he fathoms very well what he did to you. Do you want him to pay for that.... what does that look like?

He is taking the first big steps here. There needs to be some positive acknowledgement on your part.

I haven't followed your other threads, so I am not sure what your wanting to do here. Do you want to reconcile? Are you in or out?

Also, about the trust thing. I asked my IC last year during this process how I could ever trust again. Her answer is thing of it starting out as a little circle.... you see the phone records nothing is there .... that's a little circle of trust that's complete. He gives you all pass words another little circle complete. They build on each other. The circle of trust becomes bigger over time.

This is not an easy road and you two need couseling to figure out why and maybe one to help you deal with your feelings about it all. I know it helped me be able to get another persons point of view... and when H came back to my suprise my IC often stuck up for him and his actions.

She said if he had come back with no transparency, no remorse, or things of that nature.... he wasn't sincere in his attempt. Honestly, what else could BF be doing at this point? He is trying... is that what you want?

I am almost a year from my middle of the night phone call from H who was ready but tentative (because he knew it would be hard on me, to reconcile) for the most part ... the year has been great... there were stumbles.....on both of our parts but here we are.

Oh... I would say "He11, to the No" about seeing OW for closure.... that would be a deal breaker for me. How do you know about that?

As far as concert VS. poker night... I would do which ever one I felt like doing.

Best of Luck!

[MrBond]

I would go to him. So far he's done everything you've asked him to do so you should throw him a bone.

As far as talking to the OW, maybe you should have him talk to her so that she's not left hanging and he's got a sense of closure as well. That's gonna require you to do some heavy duty trusting, but I think this would be a great test.