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A Message from Michele
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What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage #1613932
10/06/08 10:42 PM
10/06/08 10:42 PM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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I've been asked to share some thoughts so here I go.

How many of you are at a point in your recovery that you can accept that you added to the breakdown in your marriage?

When I look back on my own marriage I have finally realized that I'm partly to blame. Maybe I always realized it but was not able to admit it. I'm not talking about that piece of cr-p list your x gives you that lists all the things you did wrong. We all know those lists were made up as an excuse. I'm talking about the real negative contribution you made.

I always thought I had a wonderful marriage. Always bragged because we never had a fight. I realize now that that was a symptom of trouble in my marriage. We never had a fight because we never talked about the things we didn't like. We brushed everything under the carpet or carried it around in our hearts.

There was so much stuff that I can now admit that I think there were other affairs during my marriage. I always felt that the relationship my spouse had with 2 different women at work were questionable and now I'm recovered enough to admit that I ignored them.

Eventually all that stuff eats away at the marriage and the strong base is gone. X started looking for something else and of course a new mistress was more than willing to give it. She sensed immediatly what I wasn't giving him and jumped in. It's not her fault he was out there available, she just saw an opportunity to improve her own life and did! It's X's fault and mine.

Now I'm not saying it's my fault the x ended up in an affair, he knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway. What I'm saying is I helped create a situation where he didn't think he could talk to me. I stopped being his best friend and he wanted one.

So my contribution to my own divorce is just that I stopped being my husband's best friend and it cost me my marriage.

Short of a spouse have a diagnosed illness I can't think of a case where we didn't all have some contribution.

So, here's the question, what was YOUR contribution?

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1613947
10/06/08 11:04 PM
10/06/08 11:04 PM
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Oh Gigi,

You are so right! I, too, am not without fault in the marriage. I think my trouble was partially that I would not admit that or ever admit being wrong. I was always right and darn proud of it!

Just like you, there were other times when I thought my H might have cheated but I sure talked myself out of that way of thinking and of course he denied it. Thinking back - it is possible he cheated all through our M but was clever enough to keep it hidden. I could not let that happen, better not to know.

I also travelled too much. Too much time away from him. Maybe that works fine in some situations but my ex was needy and I think he needed me to be home more. I think I was running away. From a less than perfect homelife. Unlike you - my ex and I DID fight. Often. And fairly nasty. We never really learned effective ways to communicate.

Part of it comes from marrying your first BF, I think. And marrying young. It doesn't really prepare you for the future very well.

And we were saddled with a HUGE burden at a young age. Losing the child we knew to a horrible illness and instead, bringing home a disabled child from hospital, not the son we knew, but a much different version of him. Hard for anyone to comprehend. But he was ours and we loved him but life as we knew it changed forever. For there were years in hospitals and years in court rooms (malpractice suit). It takes its toll on your R, because you don't always agree on how to handle things

But I always put my children first. I would NEVER have cheated on him. I take responsibility for my part in our divorce. And yes - I told him so. And I apologized. But it was too late anyway. And now I wouldn't change a thing.

Barb

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: BarbieDoll] #1614026
10/07/08 12:50 AM
10/07/08 12:50 AM
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Hey, I hang around and wanted to say hello. There is not a person on the planet who has been perfect in their marriage. This is in some ways the question in a job interview what is your greatest weakness. Mine was not being able to read his mind no matter how I tried. That is the saddest part. I counted on him to help me be a better person and partner in his mind and he did not do that. Wonder.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: BarbieDoll] #1614027
10/07/08 12:51 AM
10/07/08 12:51 AM
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Babygirl Offline
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this bomb that has messed up my life, did come from my illness. I was at the point where I could only do what I could only do. Tried to do alot more, but it always didnt work.

yes we all contribute to our marriages good and bad, but, in my case, my bad was my health, I did my best to be the best mom and wife I could, even with the chemo. maybe my illness and his fear pushed him. that would make it my fault too, not just the evil ow.

great post!


M 36
XH 34
3 children
If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25
"your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight
ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: BarbieDoll] #1614032
10/07/08 01:00 AM
10/07/08 01:00 AM
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California by way of Massachus...
mastateflower Offline OP
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Barbie & Babygirl,

Oh yes illness or the type certainly make a difference. My niece has a small child with CP and oh my the stress on her marriage is incrediable! I don't know how they are going to make it.

I remember the old saying that went something like this "It will either bring you closer together or blow you apart".

I wonder if the "blow you apart" is because there were other problems already present or if the spouse was just too weak of a person to stand up and pitch in?

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: ] #1614122
10/07/08 02:35 AM
10/07/08 02:35 AM
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you know I think of that often Gigi, I think he has over 10 years of knowing my health, and when it really happened, he couldnt fix me and freaked. he couldnt fix me, so he found a feeder that he could try


M 36
XH 34
3 children
If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. Mark 3:25
"your mood swings are giving me whiplash" twilight
ALIVE FREE AND HAPPY 2010

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1614141
10/07/08 02:51 AM
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Gigi, this is such a good post.

You and I went through some pretty similar situations. And yup, I brushed a lot under the rug for a while. I ignored somethings until they made me angry and depressed. Truthfully, I lashed out. I gave him total hell around the time we decided to separate. For sometime before that, I just really didn't care I think. I just got tired of it and used my work and kids as an escape so I didn't have to face his severe depression. I also felt incapable of dealing with it.

I thought about this a lot through this journey. And I never once felt as if my M was bad from the get-go or that I married the "wrong person." I know all relationships have their ups and downs. But when I looked back, I saw so much weariness on his part. We both worked crazy hours, we both career-oriented. We had the money pit of a house where sometimes several areas were under construction or major repair...we would come home to only do another 4-5 hours on the house putting up drywall, painting, fixing hardware, yada yada yada. We had 4 kids close in age who were active and into everything (not bad stuff...but things like marching band, sports, summer symphonies, advanced education in HS where they needed transport to the local colleges to get extra credit...etc. etc. etc.) There was so little time for "us." Heck, when we first were married, dinner was always a big deal. There was always a gourmet cooked, hot meal and a bottle of wine and we lingered over it. As time went on, it turned out to be a pizza in a box eaten as we passed through on to doing something else. We didn't value our time or presence together.

"Us" time usually consisted of a quick weekend away now and again. A few rolls in the sack, a couple of drinks, and go back home. That was it. Neither of us really took the time to say "stop the insanity" and slow down. I think reality hit both of us really really hard at that time. We lost a number of family members/close friends to death at that time. I traveled a lot for work to escape the madness (my boss would ask "who wants to do something?" and I'm there raising my hand "pick me pick me!").

I let everything else be more important to me like my job, the kids' constant needs, and balancing budgets. He didn't relate to that. I have my "tunnel vision." If I was on a mission, I just had to do that mission...be it a project at work, a volunteer job for the kids' schools for marching band, sports, whatever...I couldn't stop to listen to him. I think he got frustrated.

Somewhere in all of that madness, I neglected me, I neglected him, and I neglected our marriage.

It was such a lesson to me to slow down, to listen, to realize that people and relationships do take time. I'm really a geek in some ways. I look at things logically so by nature I don't have a lot of the "ultra feminine" in me--shoes, clothes, makeup don't really mean a lot to me. But I realized that I relied on that "logical" side of me for far too long, I neglected the intuitive side I had as well. It was hard for me too because I do have such a "logical" career. I'm working on it though. I realized that while I didn't have to be a supermodel in my marriage, you are so right...things worked so well while we were best friends. And I was so much more relaxed when I let that "intuitive side" come out and be much more like I was when I was younger.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1614211
10/07/08 06:34 AM
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Yo Gigi....

Great post.

I found I could never find any meaningful recovery until I was able to recognize my part in any proplem. No matter how big or small.

I was taught that even if I was on 2% wrong and the other party was 98% wrong, that unless I recognize and address/correct my 2%, I was not really experiencing growth or maturity emotionally or relationally.

If I was stuck blaming the other party... which can be easy to do if they are wrong in the majority or if their actions are particularly hurtful... if I was stuck blaming the other party only, it left me in self-deception and self-pity which is essentially still emotionally sick and immature.

What did I do wrong in my M? Lots! Specifically:
1. I allowed my anger to rule me and left way to many issues unresovled before going to bed at night that could have been reconciled with my W. These issues would go on for days.
2. I put my M second to my work a lot of the time.
3. I lived in the reflections of the past and dreams of the future rather than in the present. I did not recognize I was doing this.
4. I minimized the degree to which my moodiness left my W of the time feeling alone and like she was walking on eggshells.
5. I had an unhealthy pride about my wife and flaunted her in front of the guy she eventually ran off with. I was showing off and it came back and bit us.

This is just the short list. There are many, many things I did wrong.

I am now remarried and pay particular attention to these things in my current M and other Rs too. Life is sooooo much better.

Thanks for the post.

Ciao.


Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: 3K451] #1614472
10/07/08 03:41 PM
10/07/08 03:41 PM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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Key,

You and I are very much alike and our marriages had similar problems. My X was the successful one in a career that required a great deal of overtime. I was board at home and covered that up by getting over involved with my kids activities. Cheerleading, girl scouts, basketball, football, boy scouts, band, booster clubs.

I never talked to him and explained why I was doing all this and he never talked to me to tell me that he missed me. He wanted me home when he finally got there and I was usually off running some kind of meeting.

Then the poor guy would finally have a weekend off and I would have him booked to do some kind of fund raiser or lead some kind of hike. We never had time together to just be friends.

Of course that's not all, you know the entire story but when I look back this is really a key in the beginning of the decline in our marriage.

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1614800
10/07/08 08:56 PM
10/07/08 08:56 PM
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Gigi, it does boil down to that. Friendship nurtures. For me, I think I was trying to convey my confusing expectations during marriage. I didn't realize until quite sometime after my D how important friendship and trust were. So I let go...there was none of that left on either side of the fence.

Here's a quote (I'll probably get slapped here for this for "plagiarism"--hope not but not quite sure of the rules here). The quote is from a woman whose writing I've read quite a bit...Dr. Brenda Shoshana:

Quote:
If being in love is our natural state the real question is, what is it that keeps this most precious inheritance away? How can we reclaim it and return to the intrinsic trust and joy we had as children?

Many fear they will be hurt. But contrary to popular opinion, real love never hurts or wounds. It is only our confused expectations that can undermine our lives. There is a Buddhist saying "Give up poisonous food wherever it is offered to you." But most of us do not know what is poison and what is nourishing in our relationships.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Iwondertooo] #1615063
10/08/08 01:29 AM
10/08/08 01:29 AM
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I too could not read minds. I want to see what I did wrong. I do. I want to see where I could have been a better wife. But if I look at my ultimate situation, there was not a thing I could do.

If my X had been decent to me and told me what he needed, I would have done that. Hell, I tried my damndest to make things work after he FINALLY told me what he needed, but he did not care then.

If someone asks you to do something and you do it, and you do it for years, is not knowing that is NOT what they want a fault on your part? No! I did what my X wanted me to do. What he asked me to do. He had an affair with a Ho and decided I was the one who was wrong. After all these years, I am led to that one true fact. So, no, I do not take his responsibility for the demise of my marriage. I loved him with all my heart and I would have never done what I did if I had not done so.

He was weak. He wanted what he wanted and to hell with anything and everything else - INCLUDING HIS CHILDREN. I would not have done that. I would not have told his children to hell with them. Because they were mine too. That's the difference.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: HappyToday] #1615128
10/08/08 02:50 AM
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Happy, I know where you're coming from.

And for me, I just saw a decline in our marriage really from both sides maybe the last 5-6 years of the marriage. I did sweep a lot of stuff under the rug that I probably should have confronted a lot earlier. What I did neglect though through my years of kids, work, etc. was our friendship. I took for granted quite a few things...made the assumption he'd always be there.

Not blaming myself...I'm just at the point where I see the mistakes on both sides and have just been totally past that for a while now. It happened. It's done. It's where it belongs...in the past. I guess for me blame isn't a need here. I do know my ex has done things I think are totally unforgiveable. He chose to do them and has not shown an iota of regret for the hurt he caused. So for me, it's more like recognizing and knowing he burned my biscuits, accepting that, and just moving on now.

Doing what your X requested and finding out it isn't what he wanted isn't your fault. That's an example of the things that to me I just recognized and accepted. I guess too I just found it too burdensome to carry around the need to place blame, it was like an unsolveable puzzle to me. So I just realized over time it was something I didn't need to fully answer. I know my part in the situation. I'm more than sure my ex knows his, whether or not he ever expresses it.

Telling your children to hell with them is also wrong. My ex said that during the early stages of the game. I do know...without my "knowing" (if you get my drift...my kids do talk LOL...we can't let the ex "know" I "know" because after all he's been secret-agent man for ages now...if you can follow that loopy hillarious logic)...that he regrets that and he has been rebuilding his relationship with them as best he can. And it's a difficult road. We're all miles apart...spread from Pennsylvania to Nevada now.

I found that as time went on, as I let the situation go my life became infinitely better.

I'm also learning so much in the R I am in now. Ironically we implicitly trust each other. We talk and communicate so much better even though we are separated by 60 miles due to just practical stuff...work, family, etc. (He has daughters living near him, I have to remain in the Columbus are for work and because of my elderly mom.) And the odds are stacked against us: long distance relationships aren't great in the statistical odds for success. The fact that the distance requires us to communicate so much better and enforces us to really think "what is important here?" helps a lot. We know that a priority of each of our days is to make certain we have touched base, we give each other a run down of our day, talk a little bit about what's good or bad going on in our lives, and set the expectations each day. I guess one of the beauties of the 21st century is you can "communicate asynchronously" in the jargon of my industry...meaning if one of us can't reach the other by phone or in person, text and email have been godsends--although communication methods really aren't as important as really making sure you DO talk. One of the best compliments Dan's ever given me was "you're so easy to talk to."

But we took a very long time to get to know each other, we made sure we introduced ourselves early on to our family and friends, we asked each other a lot of questions...even the uncomfortable ones. There was more vetting going on there I think than with a vice-presidential selection LOL.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: 3K451] #1617184
10/10/08 12:24 PM
10/10/08 12:24 PM
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What an OUTSTAAAANDING thread! Us Winebutts need to drop and give you 50 pushups cause we were so stupid in not bringing this up in this manner.

One of the saddest things is many will refuse to take the cold anlaytical approach to our own toxic behavior (and I used to lead this sorry procession)
Thus will
* meet up with another person of the fairer sex
* trade stories of how the former partner did us wrong
* Decide to fix their problem not realizing we do not have the tools to do so
* Sleep with them thus complicating and sealing the deal
* Have the toxic behavior creep in and the new partner tells us things striking similar to what the previous X did
* now have a new X-Wife, Girlfriend, whatever
And the cycle begins anew. What lessons can we learn from this?

Anyone here can contribute here cause
* If you are the LBS or WAS you can contribute
* This fits into finding the toxic behavior you did that caused the problem so you can work on what to do a 180 on!
* To know where you want to end up one must take an honest appraisal to where they been. Not covering up with excuses or anything. If you are 2% wrong then here you can look for the 2%. This is not to beat yourself up but a technical no BS analysis type step one to get yourself back on track. Again OUTSTANDING.

With that said my bads.
1. PROFESSIONAL VICTIM. It's always the other's fault.
2. PRAISE JUNKIE. Always looked to be the hero or the guy whom the ladies would sneek a peak. Never cheated but was short in this area.
3. NOT MAKING AN EMOTIONAL CONNECTION. Unless you are willing to do that don't get married. Reguardless of trust, fear, or what then do not do that.
4. HUMBLE UP. Sometimes after being backed in a corner you do not care and never admit fault. If the other is hyprocrytical and never admits no worries "YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE WHAT YOU DO"
5. EXPECTING A CERTAIN REACTION: You do actions reguardless of what the other persons reactions are. Like pushing out a vehicle from a snowbank and they do not thank you. The thanks then becomes a payment and the action was a transaction not a gift cause you expected something in return though it was not much.
6. NOT BEING THERE.
Sorry for the Military, police, FF, and such folks. If you get married the travel jobs and such no matter how much you try are not enough and that extra money will feed the court system. OUCH. Time is your most valuable asset and your best gift. If you cannot give it your partner and kids will take note.
7. NOT MAKING A SPIRITAL CONNECTION.
Statistics from all faiths
1st Marriage 50% fail rate
1st Marriage of Professing Christians 50% fail rate
1st Marriage of people of any faith who pray together at least 3-4 X weekly. .04%
2nd Marriage fail rate 60%
3rd Marriage fail rate 75%

(Stats From a Men's organization dedicated to making men do the right things with family, kids, and such and stop attempting to satisfy themselves first.)

My X did take us off the cliff but I ran us up to it then tried to pull back. I've been told with many ladies once they make that decision to leave the men are just dancing with a dead relationship. I do hope for many's sake that Michelle's tatics do work and change that but I feel it is a steep uphill battle. I believe even if the spouse's decision is made one must try them. How hard and how long you try is up to you, spouse, and your maker.

This is independent of abuse and illegal activities which was not present in my case.

DO I want to do this in order to have a successful relationship in the future. No I'm lazy and I've got used to being alone. There are other things occupying my time that trip my trigger more than a committed connected relationship.
However most of you folks do wish on and that is a good thing but and please post here as step 1. It's like doing your homework.
OUTSTANDING THREAD


"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work"
Steve Martin



Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer] #1617606
10/10/08 07:53 PM
10/10/08 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer

7. NOT MAKING A SPIRITAL CONNECTION.
Statistics from all faiths
1st Marriage 50% fail rate
1st Marriage of Professing Christians 50% fail rate
1st Marriage of people of any faith who pray together at least 3-4 X weekly. .04%
2nd Marriage fail rate 60%
3rd Marriage fail rate 75%

(Stats From a Men's organization dedicated to making men do the right things with family, kids, and such and stop attempting to satisfy themselves first.)


No_hill_for_a_Swimmer,

I believe those stats based on their statistical sample. However, I believe the number .04% number is way too low in general.

At first, I blamed a lack of "spiritual connection" for a big part of the demise of my M. My sister said over and over that was my fault for not fostering that. That is a lie from the pit of Hell. Satan wants us to believe we were ALL POWERFUL to change the situation. In fact, we are not; the other person has free will.

As I went out looking for a new W, I found MANY Christian women who had that connection...and they were Ded. It simply came down to if that other person really upheld Christian beliefs.... NOT whether they looked like a Christian by attending church, Bible study, praying, etc.

One VERY disturbing case was a cute as a button brunette mother of three. She was attractive, smart, feminine and engaging. Both she and her H were Marriage Mentor leaders. Her H was a church Elder. They went to church, Marriage Mentors AND Bible study. He blazed off with some woman he met at work. She was dumbfounded.

One rather funny saying was told to me by my Ded friend, Terri. About people "pretending" to be Christians. Her father, a minister, said, "Just because a mouse is in the cookie jar it DOES NOT make it a cookie."

RMG

Last edited by RMG; 10/10/08 07:59 PM.

"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1617896
10/11/08 01:25 AM
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RMG
Good point.
My Clarification and expounding
God uses good men. Bad men use God.
You will know them by their fruits. (usually a mixed bag)

You took statistics probably in College and it shows. I tend to agree with your premise on the data and I did not challenge the stats or the methods collected at the time. I still believe personal gain was not the speaker's goal. If the stats were incorrect by mistake even by a factor of 100 the message was the same. Am I a geek or what?

Since I am single I have a choice
* Either be a hermit or a monk since I did make the vow of death do us part.
* Drive the fairer sex crazy with flirting and poetry
* Jump back into another committed relationship

Since the world is neither black or white I'll take the middle road. And yes that sometimes makes me wrong in my own eyes. No worries it's a harsh life. I'm a Cub Fan since 1967.


"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work"
Steve Martin



Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer] #1617929
10/11/08 02:26 AM
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No_Hill.... holy shnit hommey!... what a text-blast! I'm lost in the first bit.... yet your list I totally relate to... and this bit....
Quote:
My X did take us off the cliff but I ran us up to it then tried to pull back. I've been told with many ladies once they make that decision to leave the men are just dancing with a dead relationship. I do hope for many's sake that Michelle's tatics do work and change that but I feel it is a steep uphill battle. I believe even if the spouse's decision is made one must try them. How hard and how long you try is up to you, spouse, and your maker.


Particularly the part about when women are done with an R, they are done. I would agree that I do not see much probability of a turn-around using DB methods or whatever once the woman has made up her mind. No matter if her reasons are legit or contrived. My experience has convinced me that a when a woman is done, she is done... with very few exceptions.

I think you and I have dialogued in past about the likelihood of turnaround. Frankly, if you look at the message board thread counts.... there seem to be lots on the "trouble has started" newcomer boards..... a lull in those that are doing the doing.... then a whole schwack for us post-D'ers.

Frankly, I think it will take a lot to turn the tide of the D trend. We are in a culture of disposable relationships.... particularly marriages. Christians no exception. I have heard directly from many staunch Christians that they feel "he should leave her" or "she should leave him" who I cant imagine them saying that years ago.

Mind you, their stance years ago would have been a narrow-minded pat-answer about divorce being an abomination without any understanding of how hellish a bad marriage is and what it really takes to turn it around.

Praying together... ya.... I will say that the last positive thing my ex said directly to me was that she was happy when I prayed for our family every day (first few years of M). Man! for it to go from that to where it went though! Whew!

There are few predictors in life. That is why I mainly live a day at a time now.

Ciao.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer] #1617947
10/11/08 02:48 AM
10/11/08 02:48 AM
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However most of you folks do wish on and that is a good thing but and please post here as step 1. It's like doing your homework.


Good response.

It's knowing what you want AND digging deep into your own soul to know thyself before proceeding. Unfortunately, for many folks when the going gets rough, it's easier to bail on the M. Divorce laws, OP, etc. HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DIVORCE RATE. It starts and ends with you and me: what is your level of commitment and how far are you willing to go the distance to make that commitment? All too often, I see an attitude "it's about me me me me me and what I'm not getting here or what I want..."

Hey...how 'bout a glass of wine?

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: No_hill_for_a_Swimmer] #1618918
10/13/08 02:02 AM
10/13/08 02:02 AM
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California by way of Massachus...
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California by way of Massachus...
I'm so pleased with the responses here. Looks like we got some people thinking.

Again I would like to say even if you are not responsible for the end of your marriage, that doesn't mean that on some level, perhaps a tiny level, you didn't contribute. In order to recover and have a successful relationship in the future, it's really very necessary to figure out this contribution and work on the issue.

When I told my BF (R2-yes we meet on this forum) about this thread, he agreed that he clearly contributed to his marriage failure. when I asked how, he said - "he asked her to get married"!! Ok, a very funny answer but in fact R2's marriage was such a disaster that he did contribute by asking her to get married. He didn't see the signs that must have been there!

Keep it up guys!

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1619377
10/13/08 05:38 PM
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Both she and her H were Marriage Mentor leaders. Her H was a church Elder. They went to church, Marriage Mentors AND Bible study. He blazed off with some woman he met at work. She was dumbfounded.


RMG, Hill, Everyone....

Do we not see this kind of situation often? I do. So once again my point that I have not experienced church culture to be meaningfully aware of the true state of marriages and R's in this day and age. The guy described had a title as a marriage mentor but it does not appear he was one in practice. Is this not common?

Was Brittany Spears not a professed Christian at one point? All it took to propell her to behaviour that kept her on the font of the tabloids for the past couple years was a bit of spotlight, attention, and money. It does not appear her Christian faith kept her grounded in her choices or relationships.

I have observed the same thing first hand with my sitch and many, many others. We went to a church that was founded on family-building teaching. Yet many of my generation from that exact church are divorced! Many of them with lots of drama and betrayal.

What is my point?

Predominant western church culture (as I have experienced it) does not create an environment of honesty/openness for people to recognize and deal with truth and reality of where they are at in life. Issues often remained hidden behind the ambient pressure to conform and look a certain way so we don't taint the Christian image.

Our Church culture does not work for relationships. There are too many distractions to honesty. Too many interwoven agenda (ie: money, fame, prestige, egos, property, titles, positions, empire-building).

Lets face it, if the marriage mentor guy we are looking at as an example is anywhere near typical of the average guy, he has been inundated with sexual messages from hollywood, entertainment, news and the internet that tell him he can and perhaps even has the right to go out and boink his workplace colleague or anyone else. Its ok because our culture is accepting of this kind of behaviour. He may very well know an example of someone else who did this very thing and that guys life seems ok now.

I can tell you this.... when divorces started happening in my peer group from church, they spread like wildfire. My XW felt justified by the one before her. A buddy of mine came to me last year and said that his W (now XW) justified her D from him because my XW left me and coached his XW through the same rationalizations. This thing has a life of its own!

The slope is a lot steeper and slipprier than it is perceived to be. Nothing surprises me anymore. Come on! Bill Clinton does his thing with Monica Lewinski 10 years ago, lies about it to the world, and is now a societal legend helping his W's political career. Monica becomes a spokesperson for Weight Watchers or whatevr it was. Society says it is ok. Church says its ok.

Even Anthony Robbins had a "mid-life celebration" and left his W for someone younger.

In the church, we have high-profile situations from the 80's like the Bakkers and Swaggert. A man I admired, Larry Lea, who has an amazing story of spirituality, recovery from depression and pastored a mega church in Texas is divorced and remarried. And these are just the high-profile ones. What about "Christian" artists like Amy Grant or Country singer Sara Evans who was a professing "Christian". Examples are everywhere and examples justify others to do the same.

We as a society accept and frankly want what is going on. Church society included. This does not mean every individual.... people in this room are cases in point.

For me, I have accepted that we are in a "Second-Marriage" and "Blended-Family" culture. I have no wish or plan to divorce ever again. I sincerely hope we do not become a "Third-Marriage" culture but the tide will go where it goes.

The only thing I can do is be the best I can be and let my own life be an example and help others going through the pain of what divorce. There are very few cultural icons that have influenced humanity on a great scale and I do not believe I am one of them anyway.

Jesus (arguably the most influential man in history) was explicit. Divorce is wrong. Yet our culture goes where it goes. I do not understand why. So I have resigned to do the best I can and let that influence who it does.

Another person of widespread influence, Bill W, did not try to change society. He did not try to prevent alcoholism. He simply discovered a way to deal with it once it showed up. One alcoholic at a time. People are not drinking less, they are drinking more and expanding to many, many other substances. Yet AA (and all other 12-step fellowships) help people when they are ready for it and help mitigate the damage to society. But they do not endeavor to stop the spread of the disease of addiction/alcoholism.

I love my wife and kids the same way I stay sober: A day at a time. I believe in marriage a day at a time. I hope to stay married forever the same way I hope to stay sober forever. What works for me is making sure to the best of my ability that I do to for today what is best for today. If I do that, I find that my tomorrows show up in better shape than they would if I worried about them.

This is my way of not participating in the divorce culture. Its working so far. Only time will prove it out. Thats how I see it anyway.

Ciao.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1619561
10/13/08 08:32 PM
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Chaz,

My friend, Becky's situation was sad..... Her exH is an a$$.... Many guys would have loved to have a W like her....

WOW!!! Amy Grant...... Talk about rationalization..... Yes, her husband was an addict.... AND had other problems...... I am still looking in the Bible for the chapter and verse were she is justified... If you find it first, please post it here...

BTW, I am TOTALLY straight... But, Vince Gill is rough on the eyes compared to Gary... Just a fact.... We all know it is NOT about looks....

Hey, what about Sandi Patti?

I cannot believe your exW's behavior.. Actually HELPING people do someone that is wrong.... WOW!!! She needs to really look at herself... Then, again, my "Christian" former BIL and SIL "helped" my exW... I guess the whole thing about "Christians" sharing what the Bible says is out of style.... They just "help" people feel better (or so they think)....

I, too, am like you.... Nothing shocks me..... People do WHATEVER the he!! they want...... I FIRMLY believe many people are "Christians" when they want to be....

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1619571
10/13/08 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chazz

Lets face it, if the marriage mentor guy we are looking at as an example is anywhere near typical of the average guy, he has been inundated with sexual messages from hollywood, entertainment, news and the internet that tell him he can and perhaps even has the right to go out and boink his workplace colleague or anyone else. Its ok because our culture is accepting of this kind of behaviour. He may very well know an example of someone else who did this very thing and that guys life seems ok now.

I can tell you this.... when divorces started happening in my peer group from church, they spread like wildfire. My XW felt justified by the one before her. A buddy of mine came to me last year and said that his W (now XW) justified her D from him because my XW left me and coached his XW through the same rationalizations. This thing has a life of its own!


Chaz,

The thing which REALLY got me was how accepting people IN THE CHURCH and her sisters were of my exW's behavior.....

Her sister said, "Affairs happen." EXCUSE ME! If I were out banging some babe from work, would HER SISTER say the same.... I think NOT! They would want be strung up by my balls!

One pastor said, "This happens alot." Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm............. If I were in that position, I would definitely be trying to get the person to see both of them were responsible for the downturn of the M. HOWEVER, I would make it VERY clear.... I would say something like.... "You, like many of us were not a perfect spouse..... But what your W did was Biblically wrong....." This is allowing God's Word to judge.....

Anyway, I am done venting...

Take Care,

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1619609
10/13/08 09:31 PM
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People in the church are full of sh!t. Church today has nothing to do with worshiping or praising God. Its all about presentation, politics, and politically correctness. With that being said, there are INDIVIDUALS in churches who are there for the right reasons.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: braveheart] #1619618
10/13/08 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: braveheart
People in the church are full of sh!t. Church today has nothing to do with worshiping or praising God. Its all about presentation, politics, and politically correctness. With that being said, there are INDIVIDUALS in churches who are there for the right reasons.


BH,

I tend to agree with you..... Too much of the "modern culture" has permeated the church.... While, in theory, the church should be permeating the "modern culture".....

Just my two cents...

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: braveheart] #1619634
10/13/08 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Its all about presentation, politics, and politically correctness


You forgot money. It's about that too. Some really good posts here.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: HappyToday] #1619934
10/14/08 06:22 AM
10/14/08 06:22 AM
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Hey, what about Sandi Patti?


Oh man.... Sandi. I was never a fan. Not my type of music. She was definitely a talent but not my flavour.

Just another case in point. Christian that packs in her marriage. I have no idea of the issues etc. Just know she and her X packed it in at some point. No doubt used as example by other Christians to pack in their marriages.

I think the point the No_Hill makes is worthy of re-mention. He distinguishes in the statistic he refers to between "Christians" versus those who "Pray together". Big difference I am sure.

My issue is not with Christians. I am in fact one. My issue is with the culture and format of my experiences with organized churches as they exist in my community. I just do not see as relevant or representative of what God as I understand him is like. I could be completely wrong. But I have to go with my deep beliefs based on what I have experienced.

If marriages are going to be saved and the trend turned around, something different appears to be needed than what churches offer.

I do not wish a divorce on anyone. It is hell. Mine still is, I just found ways to not make the hell less painful to me to the degree it used to be.

I believe one of the keys is in the original topic line for this thread. We need to honestly recognize our part in the situations our marriages ended up in. If we do not, we are not dealing with reality. we will not grow and are apt to repeat the same mistakes.

I hope to be able to teach this to my children.

Ciao.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: braveheart] #1619936
10/14/08 06:26 AM
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Quote:
People in the church are full of sh!t.


Yo Brave.... hommey.... get off the fence!

Tell us what you really think! Quit holding back! ;\)


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1620179
10/14/08 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Quote:
Hey, what about Sandi Patti?


Oh man.... Sandi. I was never a fan. Not my type of music. She was definitely a talent but not my flavour.

Just another case in point. Christian that packs in her marriage. I have no idea of the issues etc. Just know she and her X packed it in at some point. No doubt used as example by other Christians to pack in their marriages.


Chaz,

Sandi Patti was pretty bad. From what I read, she had two affairs with married men....

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1620576
10/14/08 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Quote:
People in the church are full of sh!t.


Yo Brave.... hommey.... get off the fence!

Tell us what you really think! Quit holding back! ;\)





Chazz, I am trying to work on being more decisive in my positions! LOL I will keep working on it, will you help me? LOL

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1621960
10/16/08 06:54 AM
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Chazz Offline
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Quote:
Sandi Patti was pretty bad. From what I read, she had two affairs with married men....


Ewwwwww! Sandi Patti boinking anyone is not the most pleasant image to envision.

But seriously... is this not a case in point. Church culture sure does not keep us any safer from infidelity and divorce. And a high profile one like this only validates the behaviour for others. I am not trying to judge. I am just trying to state as an observation.

Who would I, a cocaine addict, be to judge. I am just grateful that I could stop, recover, and make amends for the calamity I caused during my active addiction. Unfortunately, people who run off with OM or OW keep the hurt and damage going for a long time if not forever.

My thoughts.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: braveheart] #1621963
10/16/08 06:58 AM
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Chazz, I am trying to work on being more decisive in my positions! LOL I will keep working on it, will you help me? LOL


No problem brave... I find if I ever really want to make in impact in a posting, I actually type out the naughty word and let it get censored.

Lets see how long it takes.....

Yo moderator! I am going to type the word "[censored]". It is 11:56pm Pacific Time Wednesday, Oct 15. Can you please post the date and time of censoring. It is an important matter of science.

Thanks.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1621965
10/16/08 07:01 AM
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Yo moderator! I am going to type the word "[censored]". It is 11:56pm Pacific Time Wednesday, Oct 15. Can you please post the date and time of censoring. It is an important matter of science.


Well son of a bitch! It auto-censored my post. We have a censor-bot in the room. Well in that case, and in the further interest of science, lets try the grandmother of all expletives.... [censored]


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1621966
10/16/08 07:03 AM
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Well son of a bitch! It auto-censored my post. We have a censor-bot in the room. Well in that case, and in the further interest of science, lets try the grandmother of all expletives.... [censored]


Sweet Lord have Mercy! That one got sensored too! Holy [censored]!


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1622207
10/16/08 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chazz
Quote:
Sandi Patti was pretty bad. From what I read, she had two affairs with married men....


Ewwwwww! Sandi Patti boinking anyone is not the most pleasant image to envision.

But seriously... is this not a case in point. Church culture sure does not keep us any safer from infidelity and divorce. And a high profile one like this only validates the behaviour for others. I am not trying to judge. I am just trying to state as an observation.

Who would I, a cocaine addict, be to judge. I am just grateful that I could stop, recover, and make amends for the calamity I caused during my active addiction. Unfortunately, people who run off with OM or OW keep the hurt and damage going for a long time if not forever.

My thoughts.

Chaz


Chaz,

I agree... My whole case and point is NO ONE is safe from D....

Your spouse grows up in a "Christian" family.... No guarantee the M will last.... Go to church together... No guarantee the M will last.... Pray together every day.... No guarantee the M will last.... Have someone who claims to believe M is sacred (like my exW)...No guarantee the M will last.... The person REALLY NEEDS to be DEEPLY committed to the M....

Chaz, my friend, I pray God continues to bless you and your family....

Take Care,

RMG

Last edited by RMG; 10/16/08 03:23 PM.

"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1622536
10/16/08 08:45 PM
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I have absolutely loved reading this thread. Thank you Gigi for starting it.

I have been examining my failures in my M over the last several months and I can see that I took my M and H for granted. I didn't have my priorities quite right and didn't spend enough time cultivating our R. After 19 years together and 15 M'd we had fallen into patterns that neither of us had communication skills enough to correct.

Like you said, we never fought. I saw it as a strength instead of what it was - neither of us communicated our real needs or desires so we never disagreed on anything. He felt like I paid too much attention to my work and household duties and not enough to him. Of course, I felt the same way about him. We never talked about that though and he found someone else to talk to about it. Now he lives with her.

Regarding the current culture of the Christian church in America, I agree that too many churches put an emphasis on the "show" instead of the "message". Mine is not one of those. I searched for a long time for the right fit for me and I have found a wonderful church home where I am surrounded by loving, caring, fully engaged followers of Christ. I am so blessed by these people and am thankful to God every day for leading me to them.


T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43
bomb12/4/07
PA5/07
S12/26/07
D final 11/17/08
Back together with no defined R 05/2010
confused....to say the least!!!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1623731
10/18/08 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Your spouse grows up in a "Christian" family.... No guarantee the M will last.... Go to church together... No guarantee the M will last.... Pray together every day.... No guarantee the M will last.... Have someone who claims to believe M is sacred (like my exW)...No guarantee the M will last.... The person REALLY NEEDS to be DEEPLY committed to the M....


RMG... all of the above applied to me and my X. She is in fact in a gospel music group and so is OM. So whatever.

For me, the thing that keeps a marriage together is deciding daily that you will commit to your marriage and doing the things it takes to keep it happy and together.

Like my sobriety, the decision and commitment has an expiry date of 24 hours. Not that I would not like or expect commitments to be longer, I am simply being realistic that it takes a daily commitment to do your best in order to have an eternity of sobriety or marriage or whatever. I believe we can stay happily married forever a day at a time.

Works for my sobriety and its working for my new marriage.

Ciao.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1623765
10/18/08 12:04 PM
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I think the biggest thing I did wrong was avoiding conflict. Yes, we had 19 years of "they never fight", but that was generally because I would do whatever I could to avoid fighting. It started out as a commitment to "biblical submission" but I think just became a habit--I was used to sucking it up, whatever it was, and he was used to me going along with whatever he did.

It would have been smarter to go ahead and fight about stuff that bothers me. But I was afraid. Afraid that if I pushed for my side of things, he would leave. Or even just that we would fight. I was afraid he'd be upset with me and give me the cold shoulder, or yell at me, or tease me...plenty of stuff that gave me reasons to just not confront him.

Last year was hell. After all those years, I snapped and started looking for what he refused to give me, from other men. YES, many people would say I was justified. YES, I felt like I had no other options...because hadn't I tried all those years to be a "good wife", and it hadn't helped at all?

But I still should have remembered that no matter how lonely and unhappy and frustrated I am, I am married, so I can't flirt with other men or contemplate an affair. Even if I felt he literally and figuratively pushed me there, it is against the vows I took, and destructive.

We'll see what happens. I'm working every day at being "a good wife", and a fully faithful one, but also at telling my husband what I need, and being honest about my feelings instead of just saying what I think he wants to hear and doing what it seems he wants me to do. Not sure it is helping, but I am trying.

And he does tease me, and yell at me, and give me the cold shoulder. He does all the things I was afraid he'd do (except leave, so far), and some I'd never imagined. It hurts. I am in a much worse position than I was before I started flirting and fooling around online. But I am back in my marriage, even if I have to eat crow most days.

I figure, things will get better between us, or they won't, but either way I will learn courage and I will have back my self-respect, instead of a pile of regrets.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: wentcrazyat40] #1623900
10/18/08 05:35 PM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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A number of us responded to this question that we never had fights with out spouses. Wentcrazy has it right that it was avoidance.

Avoidance has always been and continues to be one of my weaknesses. I complain and complain to everyone else when I have a problem but when it comes to talking to the person directly, I say nothing. This wasn't just the case in my marriage but also how I am at work.

So it's not my fault that my X got addicted to porn and is now married to one of the "particpants" but if over the years I had been more vocal about issues in our marriage, if we had worked things out as they came up, if we had remained best friends, perhaps he never would have thought about looking at the porn on the internet in the first place.

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1624611
10/20/08 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Avoidance has always been and continues to be one of my weaknesses.


I think this is a huge one for many of us. How do we effectively address issues as they come up rather than avoid the pain of doing so and thereby letting the small issues become big issues? This is a tough one for any of us.

It is easier to go to one of the two extremities... Avoidance or Conflict. Neither is a winning situation.

To me, a hallmark of a mature relationship is the ability to communicate honestly and openly without it turning into a fight every time. Or without feeling the need to avoid for fear of the conflict or whatever pain comes from discussing senstive issues.

Like MASTATE mentiions... an issue like pornography. It is put in front of all and any of us. No man is immune to it catching his attention. It is a huge industry with continuous deliberate attempts by producers of porn to get it in front of us. Not just men. I know women who enjoy it too.

But how can such a controversial and possibly embarrassing or dangerous an issue be discussed and addressed in a relationship that is not mature and respectful? In my book, it simply cannot. It is a problem waiting to happen if it cannot be addressed in an effective way.

Women... let me assure you.... there is a deliberate attempt being made toward the men in your life to get hooked on porn. Addressing this with a man is no small thing. If he gets involved and cant find a way out, it is humiliating. Potentially devastating.

I am not minimizing the hurt a woman must feel if she feels she is competing with porn for her husbands attention. I can only imagine how big of an issue it is from the Womans perspective.

May I suggest that shaming him out of the problem is not very effective? I saw a program recently on this on at Christian channel. It was a husband and wife ministry team. They talk openly about it between themselves as a married couple.

The husband had been drawn into this temptation and admitted it to his wife. They got through the issue and now on a regular basis talk openly about it to keep it on the surface. She is mature enough not to judge him and to try to deal with her feelings of hurt by not directing it totally on him.

He takes many steps to avoid getting into temptation and has a safe place to go if it ever ends up in front of him. He takes responsibility for what he lets into his mind.

So again, my point that the extremeties of avoidance and conflict do not work on this or any difficult subject in a marriage. I feel we must find a mature connection of dialogue with our spouses.

My wife and I are reading a book together by an author named Gottman. One of the points he makes is that the degree to which couples allow issues to become rapidly and severely escalated is a key indicator as to whether or not it is likely their marriage will last. The author backs this observation with some amazing research.

I must admit, I am guilty of both avoidance and conflict in my first marriage. Living in and participating in these extremes was part of what I did to help destroy my marriage.

This is a great thread. It is a step away from blame and toward respobsibility, healing, and recovery. These can only be good things.

Ciao

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1626456
10/21/08 07:44 PM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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Chaz,

Yes porn is an excellent example of an issue that would be too hard to discuss in a marriage filled with avoidance. It's so embarrassing that my X use to blame our sons when I would see that someone had been on a porn site on the family computer. Those poor boys insisted that they weren't doing it but they got punished anyway because their Dad was they only other person in the house and he certainly wasn't going on those sites!!

I've been thinking lately about something my mother said recently. My Mother and Father were married for 30 years, divorced and then remarried. My Mother was the left behind when my Dad went off the deep end with a younger women and booze.

There are three kids in our family. My brother is the oldest was left behind by his wife of 34 years, my sister is next was left behind by her husband of 33 years, and them my I was left behind by my husband after 25 years.

My Mom was talking about thinking she had done something wrong in the way she raised us that caused us all to have these marriage problems. At the time, I told her it had nothing to do with her but lately I'm thinking that she did.

I think the example she and my Dad gave of not communicating effected us. It's what we knew, it's what we did in our own marriages.

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1626479
10/21/08 08:00 PM
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Quote:
I think the example she and my Dad gave of not communicating effected us. It's what we knew, it's what we did in our own marriages.


AMEN.


T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43
bomb12/4/07
PA5/07
S12/26/07
D final 11/17/08
Back together with no defined R 05/2010
confused....to say the least!!!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mishka422] #1626602
10/21/08 10:08 PM
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Quote:
I think the example she and my Dad gave of not communicating effected us. It's what we knew, it's what we did in our own marriages.


Wooo MaState..... rigorous honesty here! Hats off to ya.

A realization like this is what I refer to as "The Good Stuff". Meaning that these kinds of self assesments are what growth is all about.

They are such the antithesis of blame.

Honest self-assesment (not to be confused with self-blame or self-condemnation) is dealing with truth in a mature way. I do not believe we can ever change anything that we are not honest about.

God as I understand him teaches that truth is freeing. Meaningful self-assesment is a pure example of what I believe this means.

To be able to look at your home life situation (family of origin) and to make a non-judgemental assesment of a problem that got woven into the fabric of your and your siblings understanding and behaviour is an amazing breakthrough. Doing this without blame, resentments or excuses is amazingly mature.

Then to move on and deal with it is even more amazing. You and those around you will benefit from your recovery from such a situation.

Perhaps this is the kind of stuff that the theme of this thread refers to. This is the kind of stuff I hang around here for.

Sounds like you are on a great pathway.

Ciao

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1626642
10/21/08 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: mastateflower
I've been thinking lately about something my mother said recently. My Mother and Father were married for 30 years, divorced and then remarried. My Mother was the left behind when my Dad went off the deep end with a younger women and booze.

There are three kids in our family. My brother is the oldest was left behind by his wife of 34 years, my sister is next was left behind by her husband of 33 years, and them my I was left behind by my husband after 25 years.

My Mom was talking about thinking she had done something wrong in the way she raised us that caused us all to have these marriage problems. At the time, I told her it had nothing to do with her but lately I'm thinking that she did.

I think the example she and my Dad gave of not communicating effected us. It's what we knew, it's what we did in our own marriages.


Gigi,

It is sad to imagine all of the pain there. Four marriages shattered; one restored. That must be so tough.

This makes me wonder. Wifey and I were talking about marriages being restored and how some people just wait around. I know of people who 10 years later are still waiting for their spouse to come back to them. It is heartbreaking to see how much pain could be avoided....

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1626651
10/21/08 11:17 PM
10/21/08 11:17 PM
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I may be wrong on this but after many years reading I seem to see that alot of ardent standers are of a mature age, often with some disability or have suffered from depression. Some on a second marriage.Quite a few do not work or do not need to work.
Maybe those factors make it easier to just wait.

One might say I am standing in the sense I have no one else in my life nor have I actively looked. I still love my x in away after many years of no contact and the fact he remarried. I spent many years believing he would return God would hear my millions of prayers. I truly believed God hated D and mine would be the one to make it.

Sadly I was wrong, nor had I factored free will. I am living my life for me and my children, financially much poorer, in the older age bracket, so I guess in away I sort of fit my observations but I do go out, have a life and am not adverse to meeting my knight in shining armour, so I guess I am not quite standing.
Lost my train of thought, so I,ll shut up. Sorry it's late and way past my bedtime.
Have enjoyed the thread very much, honest and raw but thought provoking. Introspective which I think many ardent standers hy away from. JMO of course and I am often wrong, ha.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: naej] #1626713
10/22/08 12:57 AM
10/22/08 12:57 AM
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((( Naej )))
just wanted to tell you I think your the best. Thats all. Back to DB programming


Be Happy for this Moment,
This Moment is your Life


Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: naej] #1626871
10/22/08 05:01 AM
10/22/08 05:01 AM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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RMG,

Yeap four marriages and all three kids and Mom were left behind. What are the odds?

On the bright side my parents did find each other again. I actually was the Maid of Honor when my Mother and Father remarried. Of course my X was the Best Man - go figure!

My parents had been apart for several years. They had been legally seperated, got back together, split up and then got divorced. My Mom was dating and my Dad was trying to get his life together again.

One day Dad knocked on the door and asked if they could talk. He wanted to come home after five years. Mom didn't let him right away, they went to marriage Cons, had dates, my Dad was required to get out of debt, stuff like that. It took about ten months and then Mom let him move back in.

Not long after the second wedding Dad became extremely ill. He was terminal and required nearly constant care. Mom had lots of help and managed to keep him home with her for ten more years. The 11th year, Dad was in a nursing home. She went everyday rain or shine as Dad wouldn't eat unless she was there to feed him. When Dad finally passed away he was in Mom's arms.

Mom's alone again but not as a left behind anymore, now she's a dedicated widow who keeps his memory alive for all of us....

You'ld love her!

As for me, well I try to remember to communicate more. It's not always easy as Rob and I have such busy lives. Rob is doing double shifts at work and I'm a full time college student who also holds down a full time job. I think much of the time when we don't communicate it's from exhaustion rather than avoidance.

But I keep working!!

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: naej] #1626873
10/22/08 05:07 AM
10/22/08 05:07 AM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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Chaz,

Boy I hope I'm on a "great pathway". I know there's still work to be done.

It's funny that I don't communicate well with my partner as with everyone else I rarely shut up! In fact that was one of the items on my X's bogus why I'm leaving list! I talked too much! The problem is I don't talk to the right person and I do anything to avoid having conflict.

Come to think of it, I do this with my son who still lives at home as well. Poor Rob is always pointing out that I need to be stronger. Not that he's not a good kid, he is, he just really needs to do more and I don't push it. I let him slack off and of course being 20 he's very happy to go alone with the idea!!

LOL - I guess I just put another piece in my puzzel.

Gigi

Last edited by mastateflower; 10/22/08 05:08 AM.

"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1626970
10/22/08 11:31 AM
10/22/08 11:31 AM
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Good work Gigi! Even after all this time you are still discovering where your problems in your M came from and are so willing to share them with us. Thank you so much!

I continue to learn so much about myself and my R style. You and I must be soul sisters. I avoid ALL conflict in every part of my life. My STBX is the same way. We never communicated anything. AWFUL!

Keep sharing and I'll keep learning.

Thank you!


T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43
bomb12/4/07
PA5/07
S12/26/07
D final 11/17/08
Back together with no defined R 05/2010
confused....to say the least!!!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1626977
10/22/08 11:42 AM
10/22/08 11:42 AM
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No_hill_for_a_Swimmer Offline
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I got two friends.
Ok Count em

Anyway one is military one is civilian I knew since High School

Both are married, multiple affairs, successful in their jobs, one has children the other does not. Both have been married for decades.

Both have had long periods away from their wives due to employment. By all rights they should have been dumped.

OK now instead of complaining (why me? I did not cheat.) lets look at Chazz's quote
Quote:
Honest self-assesment (not to be confused with self-blame or self-condemnation) is dealing with truth in a mature way. I do not believe we can ever change anything that we are not honest about.


With that said I have read countless articles of dying marriages on this BB for the last 3+ years. I rarely visit other bbs.

I said this before but the common thread I have found was making that emotional connection with your spouse. Both of my friends had it with their spouse.

How one achieves it? If I knew that and was willing to do it I would not be where I am. My situation has some great advantages and sometimes it's putting lipstick on a pig. But a pig with lipsitck looks happy and sooner or later he is happy even if the other pigs laugh at him.

Two points out of this mess of electrons
1. Assess and fix what you did wrong
2. When you dive in again (and most of you will) make and keep that emotional connection. Reguardless if you use prayer, video games, or pool as a catalyst if you do not do #1 and #2 you will revisit this board
With less money
With more pain
And probably a lot more humble

But look on the bright side. Blame the X all the way (with the exceptions like abuse) and you can say
Quote:
There is no way but up


Disclaimer: (say this real fast) Putting lipstick on pigs should only left to professional pig make up artists and never should be attempted in a china shop. Consult the TV show producers Green Acres prior to attempting procedure.


"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work"
Steve Martin



Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1627090
10/22/08 02:14 PM
10/22/08 02:14 PM
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RMG77739 Offline
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Originally Posted By: mastateflower
RMG,

Yeap four marriages and all three kids and Mom were left behind. What are the odds?

On the bright side my parents did find each other again. I actually was the Maid of Honor when my Mother and Father remarried. Of course my X was the Best Man - go figure!

My parents had been apart for several years. They had been legally seperated, got back together, split up and then got divorced. My Mom was dating and my Dad was trying to get his life together again.

One day Dad knocked on the door and asked if they could talk. He wanted to come home after five years. Mom didn't let him right away, they went to marriage Cons, had dates, my Dad was required to get out of debt, stuff like that. It took about ten months and then Mom let him move back in.

Not long after the second wedding Dad became extremely ill. He was terminal and required nearly constant care. Mom had lots of help and managed to keep him home with her for ten more years. The 11th year, Dad was in a nursing home. She went everyday rain or shine as Dad wouldn't eat unless she was there to feed him. When Dad finally passed away he was in Mom's arms.

Mom's alone again but not as a left behind anymore, now she's a dedicated widow who keeps his memory alive for all of us....

You'ld love her!



Gigi,

I am certain I would love your mom. I am sure your father's actions hurt her deeply. Yet, she had the ability to get by that; she saw the bigger picture. Healing from the hurt with your father was better than shutting him out forever. I think she was wise. It seems like your mom is glad she gave him that second chance. In the end, their relationship turned out well...

This honestly brings my greatest past fear to mind... It may seem odd.... Before I remarried, I had such fear over my exW wanting to rebuild our relationship..... I kept having this vision of her and I talking about it..... The truth of it is I loved her more than I ever loved any woman... I just thought I could not open myself up to those feelings and the intense pain again....

Take Care,

RMG


"The bad things in life open your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before." from "Good Will Hunting"

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1628124
10/23/08 12:14 PM
10/23/08 12:14 PM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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I certainly understand the feeling of having loved your x more than you ever loved any other. I have to say I felt the same way and I guess on some level I still do.

But it's really impossible to try to compare the intencity of love one had for one versus what one has for another. What you feel the first time and what you feel the second time are always going to be different because we're different people in different stages in life...don't you agree?

I love Rob very much and our life together is wonderful but Rob will never be the father of my children. It's too late for us to share that experience. That changes things - that doesn't mean I love Rob less, I just love Rob different!

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1628319
10/23/08 02:43 PM
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I could honestly see loving someone else more than I did my H. Differently though, with a more mature love. A love that is built from mutual respect and trust instead of shared experiences and passion. Passion is great but it's hard to build a life on!!!

I hope that made sense. \:\)


T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43
bomb12/4/07
PA5/07
S12/26/07
D final 11/17/08
Back together with no defined R 05/2010
confused....to say the least!!!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mishka422] #1628525
10/23/08 05:54 PM
10/23/08 05:54 PM
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I totally agree, you can find love again. It will be different. I am not sure if on some level it can't be more than the first time or the love for our spouse (x).
Children are truly a blessing and I love mine more than ever but how many times have people had another baby when a marriage is in crisis in the hope of cementing it? It rarely works, I think in many mariages conflict results from the children, it was true in my case, not major conflict but it happened.
So finding love again after having had your children to me is very special because it is just for me(you).
Passion free from fear of unexpected pregnancy.Love is not a limited quantity, you are not born with x amount it is unlimited and just keeps on growing. You think you will never love a baby more than number one, but then number 2 comes along and you love it just as much ....
So many interestig thoughts on this thread.
Thanks Gigi

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: naej] #1630403
10/25/08 11:57 PM
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Gigi, for some reason I have this memory that your x was a passive/aggressive guy. Is that true? Often late, procrastinator, withdrawing affection, you never able to do the right thing, simple requests ignored, seemingly never knowing if he forgot or was not listening? Defaulting decisions and then not liking them and not saying anything at the time? Never knowing what the right thing is to do? Afraid that whatever you do will make him mad?

The reason I ask, if that's the case then the way you communicate or not could be learned behavior, both for you and your family.

This might be way off base and if so I apologize. This is the way my x was with me and it is very difficult to deal with them when you just can't win no matter what you do. Could it be a family dynamic? Just a thought.

The reason I bring it up is my ex inlaws had a similar story to your parents and I know by x was so much like his father. Was it learned behavior right down to using adultery as an excuse and maybe later behavior as punishment for unknown crimes? That may be harsh but there are some things I cannot take ownership for. Wonder

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1630739
10/26/08 07:23 PM
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Quote:
But it's really impossible to try to compare the intencity of love one had for one versus what one has for another. What you feel the first time and what you feel the second time are always going to be different because we're different people in different stages in life...don't you agree?

I love Rob very much and our life together is wonderful but Rob will never be the father of my children. It's too late for us to share that experience. That changes things - that doesn't mean I love Rob less, I just love Rob different!


GiGi
this is sooo perfect and on the mark! I have tried to explain to others how I feel this time around, when asked Q like do you love B as much as you did X and similar, its hard to explain to others who havent experienced it, and you just put it so perfectly.Thank you!

Last edited by KarenMarieS; 10/26/08 07:24 PM.

Be Happy for this Moment,
This Moment is your Life


Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: KarenMarieS] #1630943
10/27/08 12:18 AM
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This is a great thread.


"The moment you declared yourselves independent of God, you became a danger to one another" - The Shack

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Iwondertooo] #1630989
10/27/08 01:32 AM
10/27/08 01:32 AM
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mastateflower Offline OP
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Iwondertoo,

Some of what you mention is true in my x but not all. He absolutley was passive but not the aggressive.

Gigi


"It's not what happens to you, it's what you make of it." Zig Ziglar
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1637277
11/03/08 12:06 AM
11/03/08 12:06 AM
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Chazz Offline
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A thought occured to me the other day and this thread came to mind.

I have observed in myself and many others that most of us have what I have come to recognize as a "Fallback Position". By that I simply mean a self-preserving behaviour that we tend to run to when we perceive we are under pressure or threat or pain or desparation of any kind.

Why is this relevant to this thread? Well.... I recognize in myself that when the going gets tough, I tend to go to my fallback position which is trying to figure everything out. I go completely to my head and cannot hear my heart. I overprocess and try to win others to my way of thinking.

I further realize that this is a very self-destructive and relationship-destructive behaviour. I become unreachable because I retreat to my head. Thus the name.... Fallback Position.

I have observed in some others what appears to be other fallback positions. For example.... I have observed some guys I know who have histories of violence as having fallback positions of being the tough-guy. When their chips are down or they are under stress.... they resort to either violence or being super macho or some other manifestation that leaves them feeling or looking tough. Yet does this help them relate to anyone? Not that I have seen.

I have observed in some attractive women who have enjoyed attention for their attractiveness, that when cornered or insecure, they attempt to use their attractiveness to control a situation. Or present themselves as being even more together or attractive as their life becomes more disasterous and painful.

Or funny or sarcastic people who use humour to defend or retaliate. How well does this work in an R?

Am I making any sense?

I also have a friend who is a bit of an intellectual snob. When she is cornered.... oh man... her vocab consists of the most complex words that she uses to talk around and down to people. I can sense the pain and insecurity she is going through at the time and only see her become more distant as her intellectualization of things gets deeper. And thereby push us away. She actually tries to make constructive points but we cannot keep up with the complex logic and vocab.

In any or all of these examples, including my own, the fallback habits are so deeply engraned, we have a hard time seeing them. We are self-deceived in these senses. We think we are making progress but we are doing the exact opposite.

I tried to reason and argue with my X as she was leaving.... to the point where she wanted to leave all the more! And I thought I was compelling her to stay with my well-crafted reasoning and persuasive appeals! In my fallback position, I dont hear anyone! I am not really present. I am trying to control or at least feel safe. This is what I am trying to say! This is the relevance to the thread.

So.... Fallback Positions... make sense?...what are yours?

Ciao.

Chaz


Me:40's / XW:30's / 3 Kids / EA with OM 1998-2001 / PA:? / S:2001 / D:2005 / XW M's OM:2006 / Chaz M's new W:2007
"Its not that I was really bad as a kid, its just that most of the pranks I played happened to be felonies".
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #1637447
11/03/08 05:06 AM
11/03/08 05:06 AM
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I definitely retreat to sarcasm and self-depricating humor. It's really awful.


T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43
bomb12/4/07
PA5/07
S12/26/07
D final 11/17/08
Back together with no defined R 05/2010
confused....to say the least!!!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mishka422] #1638118
11/03/08 09:20 PM
11/03/08 09:20 PM
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Interesting thread. Chazz makes a very good point about fallback positions. I too use sarcasm, witty repartees and self-depracation as a fallback position, and I need to stop doing that.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: RMG77739] #1689253
01/07/09 04:15 PM
01/07/09 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: RMG77739


Chaz,

The thing which REALLY got me was how accepting people IN THE CHURCH and her sisters were of my exW's behavior.....

Her sister said, "Affairs happen." EXCUSE ME! If I were out banging some babe from work, would HER SISTER say the same.... I think NOT! They would want be strung up by my balls!

One pastor said, "This happens alot." Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm............. If I were in that position, I would definitely be trying to get the person to see both of them were responsible for the downturn of the M. HOWEVER, I would make it VERY clear.... I would say something like.... "You, like many of us were not a perfect spouse..... But what your W did was Biblically wrong....." This is allowing God's Word to judge.....

Anyway, I am done venting...

Take Care,

RMG



Gosh, go away for a year or so and nothing really changes! LOL
Same stories.
You are sooo right about the church and family not taking them to task.

XW got involved w/ a friend, coworker of mine and member of her CATHOLIC church choir. Nobody told her she was doing something wrong b/c they didn't want to get involved. Priest even said he couldn't say anything to her unless she came to him.

She justified it by saying she told me the marriage was over before she told OG that she had the hots for him. Yeah, 9 hours earlier!

Do ya think if I had told her the marriage was over and I wanted out and then went over to her GF's house and told her I wanted her that would have been okay? NOT!


But as to the original ?...

I did somethings early in our marriage that contributed. But over the last few years I was trying to be a great husband while she was just wallowing in sadness, grief, self pity. ]]
I finally have realized that NOTHING I could have done would have changed things. Even if I had ALWAYS been a great husband sooner or later her inherent unhappiness/childishness would have reared it's head.

I'm much happier now. Unfortunately the kids are enmeshed w/ her and her new H (not OG) and don't see me much. Counselor that met w/ us and Daughter actually told me she'd be willing to testify in court on my behalf that they were all screwed up.
I did not pursue legal options. Not worth the emotional/$$ cost.


Hellbent...
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: DavidM] #1738299
03/22/09 08:14 PM
03/22/09 08:14 PM
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Regrets Offline
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I honestly don't know. Maybe it's too soon. I did a few times apparently be rude when drinking but that but 18 months or so before we split. Not right, but I don't think it was the problem.

I am guilty of not speaking out when I felt I wanted something, I just used to want him to be happy. Maybe he did just fall out of love.


H 36 2nd marriage
me 32 1st marriage
no kids

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #1830006
09/01/09 04:50 PM
09/01/09 04:50 PM
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I don't blame my ex and myself for what happened to our relationship. We both had committed mistakes and refused to fix marriage which led to divorce. My ex and I were both workaholic. I worked as a local journalist and I hardly stayed home because of my job, meanwhile my husband was a manager that time and committed most of his time for his job. We barely see each other because of personal priorities. In our two-year marriage, I never enjoyed our relationship and I knew that he felt the same thing. We officially filed for online divorce last January.

Last edited by badeth; 09/01/09 04:52 PM.
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: badeth] #1889453
12/09/09 02:46 AM
12/09/09 02:46 AM
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At the beginning I had a hard time adjusting to a new marriage, a new name, a new apartment, a new lifestyle, new responsibilities, a new professional job (first out of college), a new status in the community and a new person in my life as a permanent fixture. It took me 3 months to get a grip and by that point he had withdrawn so much he didn't want to even try to see I was trying.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mbw] #1902412
12/27/09 11:55 AM
12/27/09 11:55 AM
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Here's what I did...I became a parent, I think, to my husband instead of his wife. I was the financially responsible one--he was the opposite. I worked way too much because I felt like I had to. I gave into his whims. He was responsible for the yard, laundry and planning leisure time. I was responsible for everything else. He became the "fun" one. I became a workaholic--with 2 small boys that demanded what little attention I had left. He wanted romance. I wanted a partner. While we had always had a good sexual relationship, I felt more and more distant from him and didn't share my feelings about it clearly enough. Romance wasn't much on my mind. I felt like I had to work as hard as I could so he could have as much fun as he wanted, which was ridiculous. But I remember telling him that. As the boys got older, I wanted to share more of our lives together. He didn't want to share mine--so I let myself be erased. I shared his life--his family, friends, etc. But he wasn't interested in my life. Eventualy, I lost myself. I expressed my loneliness during the last few years of our marriage--he said that we'd have time to do things together when the kids went to college (that would be about 10 years away!). Eventually, he had a affair. I worked very, very hard to try to get back on track, after recognizing the crisis. We didn't ever fight. We both had a hard time identifying and expressing our feelings. I paid for counselling, Retrouvaille, the whole 9 yards. He came along, but his heart wasn't in it. It took me too long to be "done", but I do feel like I did everything I could to save my family. So, in that sense, I don't have regrets.

Its interesting that my siblings recently said they always knew he would have an affair--from the earliest days of our marriage. That he would make comments a lot about other women. My brother said that he joked during the first year of our marriage that he could trade me in after 10 years, like a car.

I'm sad that I didn't draw boundaries in my marriage. I'm sad that I was unhappy for so long and that I let myself be erased. I DID THAT PART. I couldn't seem to work less and have more fun or more of a connection. Eventually, it seemed like if I just loved him enough he would finally come around and love me back. But he doesn't/didn't. I'm not sure he ever did, actually. He loved me early on, when we were dating. I think the real me never lived up to the fantasy me. I think the OW will probably end up the same.

I've learned a lot about being a grown up in a relationship, about setting boundaries and how to express feelings earlier/better. I hope that I've learned enough that there will be a next time, and that next time I'll get it right!

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: musclegal] #1933371
02/08/10 04:43 PM
02/08/10 04:43 PM
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What I did to hurt my marriage:

I participated in a power struggle with my H for many, many years. We both took the stance "when I get my way you will get yours". We both had *very* different ideas of what a marriage should look like and instead of combining those ideas we both decided our individual was was the only "right" way and it led to our demise.

I am a "talker" when it comes to feelings, issues or needs. My H is not. I never felt heard and I was always frustrated he would not get "deep" with what he was feeling or needing.

I think I lost respect for my H a long time ago due to his lack of communication, his fear of failure and his "black and white" outlook on life. I also lost a ton of respect for him when my father died and when his mom got sick. His behavior during those times was childish, mean and inexcusable. The more I tried to talk to him about it, the more mean he got. I wish I had gotten outside help at that time as I think things might be different now.

I had a terrible habit of holding grudges even after something was discussed and bringing it up again when a new argument happened. My H actually did the same thing except he never verbalized his grudges, I did.

My H and I both had communication issues. In fact, when things were good between us we did see a marriage counselor many years ago with the hope we could improve our communication. I do believe she did nothing but hurt us more. We would sit in her office and go "round and round" about the same issues and she would tell us that we need to improve our communication skills and end our power struggle. We knew that going in, lol! We went to her so she could teach us how! We stopped going after a few months as it was useless.

I compromised huge parts of myself to keep the peace with my H. He grew up as a very spoiled only child and always got his way. He carried that to our marriage and I allowed it but silently resented him for it.

What it all boils down to is communication. Our lack of healthy communication really killed so much of what made us "us" early on. Had we both learned how to better communicate I do believe we would have made it for the long haul. My H doesn't believe R's should be "work" but had we handled things in a different way I don't think the "work" would have been as hard as he thought.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: CityGirl] #1949046
03/01/10 08:25 PM
03/01/10 08:25 PM
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Here are my shortcomings:

We quit becoming friends and became co-parents and roommates. I didn't know it was happening, I just thought this was normal in a marriage and even though I wouldn't classify our marriage as great I figured we had a strong commitment to one another and might have been goign through a bit of a rough period. We had 4 kids so I used that as an excuse I think.

We drifted apart. The unfortunate thing is that I didn't wake up and really figure it out for real until an OM had started filling this role with my W. It turns out I should have known earlier as she developed a parallell life with a group of people she started training with. She enjoyed her time with them and I wasn't part of that. It actually became a source of friction before OM showed up.

It would have been so easy to put in an effort to keep a strong connection with my W, but who knows, it may not have made a difference. It is hard to say. It seems like whatever problems we had in the M are now being dug up to justify what she has done in the past year with OM and why she now wants to leave.

I think this whole thing is really about her, but I know I could have done more to keep our M stronger which might have made a difference.


ME/XW:47
S21, D19, S15, S14
M:21 T:26
W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12
W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: tryingtilDorR] #1953009
03/06/10 06:47 PM
03/06/10 06:47 PM
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What i did wrong: I think I have discovered there are two coinciding factors.The first is that I got complacent. I figured that being that I was SG's wife, it wouldn't matter if I tried or not because I had the ring on my finger. Because of that, I did not listen to him when he tried to tell me there was something wrong.
Although he was not completely forthcoming, he did drop hints that he was unhappy, and I just figured the issues would fix themselves.

I was wrong, and ultimately he turned to someone else.
Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming myself for his affair,. but the fact that i did not listen was a contributing factor.


Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: LolaL] #1962685
03/19/10 11:45 PM
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In the movie "Its Complicated" Meryl Streep tells Alec Baldwin that she did some things wrong too--but that she didn't have to admit them because he had an affair. I think that there is something to be said about that. But on the other hand, there was a post to Yahoo that seemed to BLAME the LBS for the A! That the whole reason for the A was because the R wasn't good between the H & W. We can all be better people. We can all strive to recognize our weaknesses, and we all have blame in a marriage for a loss of connection. But I still think that there are lots of people who would NEVER have an A, no matter how bad their marriage is. It makes it really hard to fix things. Communication is important, but really, an A is makes the playing field unfair.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: musclegal] #1977498
04/08/10 04:09 PM
04/08/10 04:09 PM
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IMHO, any A is the fault of the perpetrator. No matter what the marital situation, an A is a choice between two people, one of which is OBVIOUSLY not the spouse.

Regardless, though, I have come to discover that no one is perfect, and there is always room to improve. I also believe that if you even have a friend of the same sex, who is not a romantic interest that comes before your spouse, that potentially could be the equivalant of an EA.

When it comes right down to it, somewhere along the way one spouse forgot to put the other first, forsaking all others.


Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: musclegal] #1994071
05/01/10 08:25 PM
05/01/10 08:25 PM
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Done in VA Offline
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I haven't been on this site in a LONG time. And I've been wanting to give an update on myself & what I've learned about my marriage. Our divorce will be final this August.

I'm not going to go into the dynamics of things between the 2 of us. That would take forever. STBXH kept saying I was "controlling" when he first admitted he was done (although he went to MC for 6 months after dropping the bomb, but never "tried" to work on the marriage). I could never figure this out. I was not possessive, we both had outside interests, etc. It's taken me over a year to finally "think" I may understand what he meant.

I was too controlling over MYSELF. I never fully let my guard down with him. He never got 100% of ME. I am a VERY guarded person...nobody's going to take advantage of me, nobody's going to f--- me over, I will not be used. I always had a wall up protecting myself from STBXH doing these things to me. And I don't even know why. He would make a mistake & I would not see it as a simple mistake, I would see it as - you did this to piss me off. you did this on purpose just to make me mad. I would never give him the benefit of the doubt.

After 6 months of MC, reading every book on saving a M, DBing my butt off & turning into June Cleaver, twisting myself into a pretzel to become the person I thought he wanted me to be...the most painful & agonizing 6 months of my entire life...he admitted that I'd made all the changes he'd asked for, but he still wanted a divorce. I got mad & I was DONE! I went out 2 days later & by some strange twist of fate, met someone else that I am still with today (9 months later). I may be judged for this, but I don't care. My timeframe for saving my marriage was 6 months & I tried my damndest to "make H love me again". It didn't work.

You would think in my new R, I wouldn't trust & would be even more guarded, but for some reason I'm just the opposite. I have given 100% of myself to (we'll call him Bill). If H had been sitting next to me & asked me to make him a sandwich, I would have said - get up and make it yourself! I'd be thinking - you're not going to control me & see if you can get me to do something that you could easily do yourself. If Bill asks me the same thing, I'll do it. I do it bc I realize I'm being asked to do something for the simple fact that it would be nice. I stopped overanalyzing everything, I stopped taking things negatively & I do nice things just bc I want to make him happy. I could honestly go on & on about different things that caused the demise of my marriage. None of which I felt could not be fixed...none of which I believe you would get a D over, but H did.


Me 36, Him 33
M 11yrs, T 15yrs
S 8, D 7
ILYBINILWY - 1/09
H moves out 10/09
D to be final SOON I HOPE!
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Done in VA] #2022716
06/17/10 06:34 PM
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UK
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Lees' contribution to creating the marriage that allowed an affair to happen.

1. Not taking seriously the WAW's "the housework is making me ill." She may still not realise or admit that she has OCD, but that doesn't excuse me not taking it seriously enough to work that out until our marriage was burnt toast.

2. Not modifying my argument style. WAW likes to scream and shout. I like to walk away and discuss it when we're both calm. We needed to learn to meet half way. I was far too defensive in arguments, and that wound us both up. I'm pretty sure she mostly didn't mean to personally attack me, but that's how I often interpreted it. She interpreted me walking away as ignoring her needs.

3. Not communicating my needs, but just sucking it up and glossing over things and allowing resentment to build up as a result. It never came out in the marriage, but boy has it come out since it's been over. I won't be doing that again. Clear and brutal honesty all the way.

4. Ignoring the blatantly unhealthy relationship with one of my best friends and colleagues that quickly became the EA and PA. Should've seen the signs, talked about it and nipped it in the bud instead of thinking "she would never do that" about both of them and sweeping it under the carpet before it was too late.

5. Not learning quickly enough that her love language and mine are quite different. She needed actions - housework in particular. I am an old fashioned romantic, but whilst she seemed to like the cards, poems, gifts and surprises, what she really needed was for me to hoover and iron more often. Similarly she felt that by incessantly doing housework I would feel the most loved woman in the world, when what I really wanted was love notes and rose petals.

6. Letting life get in the way. Work, internet, general dross of life got in the way for both of us. We both seem to have found so much more time for hobbies and fun things since separation, that we never found in the last six months we were together. I won't let my hobbies take a back seat again.


Additional lessons learned include "once a cheater always a cheater" and "never marry someone who's parents don't think is capable of a long term healthy relationship - they know her best"


Reality is that which, if you don't believe in it, doesn't go away.
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2037765
07/13/10 09:21 PM
07/13/10 09:21 PM
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Kalkaska, Michigan
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Where did I pollute my marriage, well looking back now I worked a separate shift from my H and this rarely left for time for us to have alone and fun time as individuals and as a couple, but he always said he did not need a lot of 'coddling' from me. he was happy with the way things were except for he had no freedom. And when there was time for us to do our own thing or spend time getting away from the house and the kids, I always wanted him to be there with me. I was a little co dependent with him. But that was no reason to have an affair. In fact the affair started after I went to first shift and we could have time together. But essentailly I think that to begin with right from the star I was not as in love with my spouse as I should have been. I was in love with the idea of being someones wife. And that was the real pollution. But I don't believe I ever did anything to deserve him being unfaithful. And that is my honest opinion, and worse yet with someone who was supposed to be a 'friend.' But really it also boils down to track records and that is his. He has always cheated on his currents with the new until he can make the change.


t=5.5yrs m=4
kids=4 (8,9,10,&11)
I dropped the bomb 10-09
regaining myself
in house seperation 9-6-09
divorce final 4-19-10
Moved out 9-17-09
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Done in VA] #2040486
07/18/10 04:28 PM
07/18/10 04:28 PM
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Los Angeles
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luvless Offline
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Originally Posted By: Done in VA
STBXH kept saying I was "controlling" when he first admitted he was done. I could never figure this out. I was not possessive.

I was too controlling over MYSELF. I never fully let my guard down with him. He never got 100% of ME. I am a VERY guarded person...nobody's going to take advantage of me, nobody's going to f--- me over, I will not be used. I always had a wall up protecting myself from STBXH


OMG this is me! This is exactly what happened in my marriage. I had a reason to mistrust though. He lied and cheated with a girl when we were dating so even though I loved him still I lived guarded.

We always bickered in our marriage and things got discussed (because I had to talk about them) but he didn't like talking about issues. We did everything together and even 19 years later he'd be excited to come home to spend time with me. I think as I was beginning to "love" him freely I let my guard down and it was too late. I wasn't there for my former husband and he couldn't talk to me! or how I see it - never tried.

Anyway this is my story too. I do have a hard time accepting an affair as an escape though. No matter how bad a marriage gets - you leave you don't cheat and lie period!

Luv


M44 H41
M20 T23
3 older teens
Bomb Nov 09 "i'm not happy"
EA Nov 09 w/coworker
Another PA in Mar 10
I Filed Apr 10
D final Dec 10
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: luvless] #2043239
07/22/10 09:00 PM
07/22/10 09:00 PM
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Quote:
I was too controlling over MYSELF. I never fully let my guard down with him. He never got 100% of ME. I am a VERY guarded person...nobody's going to take advantage of me, nobody's going to f--- me over, I will not be used. I always had a wall up protecting myself from STBXH


Same here! Plus--I stopped putting him first on my priority list. I also got lazy about nurturing our relationship


me,34
exH,34
S,16 months
S:3/31/09-left for OW
started DBing 10/09
d final: sometime 10/10
current:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1
met in 2004

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: newmama] #2051167
08/05/10 04:14 PM
08/05/10 04:14 PM
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I know now something that really upset my H was going out a lot. I felt he didn't want to do things w/ me so eventually it was like we were leading separate lives. Have changed a lot since last year and hardly go anywhere (not that I'm a hermit but my life is not a socially busy anymore).

Also, I should have validated more of what he saying.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2054681
08/11/10 06:55 PM
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One big thing I did wrong was enable him for many years. I took care of everything and let him get away with not being responsible for anything, and I didn't include him. And I sometimes used sex as a negotiating tool, which is not cool. And I didn't always communicate honestly with him, and instead manipulated to get the result I wanted. I'm definitely at fault for some of the problems in my former marriage. But I did change those behaviors before he ever cheated on me.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: maurinsky] #2090782
10/18/10 02:36 PM
10/18/10 02:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,319
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irishblessings Offline
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I rarely post outside of MLC - but this is intriguing to me. My H and I were in MC off and on through our 25 year marriage. Initially because of my insecurities and lack of understanding/knowledge of how to make a marriage work. My parents were both addicts and it was a terrible model. I married someone I thought was SO far removed from the trashy way I was raised and I became obsessed with trying to do things the "right" way. I have always put H on a pedestal but felt as if he came from socially dysfunctional background and that I was always "studying" how to do things "right." I was always scared about him leaving. Well - at one point I read something about love being a choice and from that point on - I never turned back / no regrets - nothing. Love, love, love.

What I didn't see until about 5 years ago was even the good intentions of trying to do things "right" were very controlling. So I made a 180 - truly. Kids saw it, friends and family saw it. I got my priorities straight about the fact that the most important thing was my relationship with H and my need to do a better job respecting him and really listening and collaborating.

Problem was...H had by this point entered the MLC tunnel and all of the "good" work we had been doing was a charade. He was involved in sexually addictive or compulsive behavior and he had been lying his way through MC.

I have struggled today - since the separation 4 months ago - with the fact that where we are today is NOT my fault. His choices, his illness, his problems have caused such detachment from me and the family - I'm now working on forgiving myself for the controlling behavior and recognizing that I did not give up on the marriage. I am standing - just from a loving distance (thanks Brooklyn).


M-48/XH-48 M=25/T=28 years
Ds-24,22/S-18
D - 3/11
A Day at a Time
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2275788
08/29/12 12:37 AM
08/29/12 12:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,949
Wisconsin
~
~乃G才 Offline
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It takes two to tango, maybe not 50/50 but the issues were not just his fault nor mine.
I could go on and on about the things I did to contribute to the end of my M but in all honesty I have beat myself up enough over everything and I just need to forgive myself and move on.

I will say though, that after being in therapy for almost 2 years, I have learned a lot about myself and finally feel like I have some tools that will hopefully allow me to have a healthy relationship in the future.


"Everyone you meet has baggage. Find someone who loves you enough to help you unpack."
了ormerly DelinquentGurl
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #2302633
11/26/12 03:48 PM
11/26/12 03:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 59
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notsurewhat2do Offline
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Originally Posted By: mastateflower
I've been asked to share some thoughts so here I go.

How many of you are at a point in your recovery that you can accept that you added to the breakdown in your marriage?

When I look back on my own marriage I have finally realized that I'm partly to blame. Maybe I always realized it but was not able to admit it. I'm not talking about that piece of cr-p list your x gives you that lists all the things you did wrong. We all know those lists were made up as an excuse. I'm talking about the real negative contribution you made.

I always thought I had a wonderful marriage. Always bragged because we never had a fight. I realize now that that was a symptom of trouble in my marriage. We never had a fight because we never talked about the things we didn't like. We brushed everything under the carpet or carried it around in our hearts.


Eventually all that stuff eats away at the marriage and the strong base is gone. X started looking for something else and of course a new mistress was more than willing to give it. She sensed immediatly what I wasn't giving him and jumped in. It's not her fault he was out there available, she just saw an opportunity to improve her own life and did! It's X's fault and mine.

Now I'm not saying it's my fault the x ended up in an affair, he knew what he was doing was wrong and did it anyway. What I'm saying is I helped create a situation where he didn't think he could talk to me. I stopped being his best friend and he wanted one.

So my contribution to my own divorce is just that I stopped being my husband's best friend and it cost me my marriage.

Short of a spouse have a diagnosed illness I can't think of a case where we didn't all have some contribution.

So, here's the question, what was YOUR contribution?

Gigi


I full accepted my fault in my marriage. We are not divorced yet (as you can see by my signature), but I accept where things broke down and I admit it was as much my fault as his. We had some pretty weird circumstances, but the short end of the stick was both us were/are good at not talking for fear of hurting each other, I knew H was depressed and stressed about recent job loss/injury/disability. I accept that I wasn't on board with H's "dream" to be somebody in the hunting world. I accept that I kept things from him in an effort to protect him, which probably only caused him to feel shut out even more. I accept that after 2 years for waiting for him to be healed from injury, I got tired of being primary caregiving with nothing in return. BUT, I full accept that I needed to do more and H needed me to do more. I guess we are both hard headed and NOT mind readers.

Now I feel so guilty about it. I wish I could turn back time and just do the little things he asked me to do without whinning about them, just spend time with him. Would it have helped? Maybe not, but the pain is not knowing.


Me: 41
H: 43
M: 21 yrs
DD: 15

1st bombshell: 2002 - 6 months
2nd bombshell/moved out: 10/03/2012
OW: 10/12/2012
Signed MDA & PP: 11/20/12; but not submitting
Confirmed OW living with H: 11/21/12
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: notsurewhat2do] #2304542
12/04/12 02:22 AM
12/04/12 02:22 AM
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Posts: 582
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Soul.Searching Offline
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I have not read the whole thread yet but here are mine. I'm actually surprised how big my list turned out to be. This is the first time I have let go of the reasons why I did what I did and not tried to justify them to myself.
frown

My inability to control my emotions.
My tone of voice and defensiveness.
Loosing hope of trying to fix key issues through communication and ultimately trying to control H instead. How stupid could I have been? Carrying on over someone not spending time with you, will only make them want to spend even less time with you.
Going down cheese less tunnels.
Too many expectations.
Not communicating properly. Eg attacking statements, saying H made me feel a certain way.
Not showing enough gratitude to H, Even if I didn't feel I was getting it either.
Relying on H for my own happiness.
Negative comments.
Not seeing the signs or choosing to talk myself out of them being signs.
Putting my own needs, wants and desires last.
Letting H control me.

Well, that's a pretty big list. The biggest by far that I have read. I've only read a few pages though. I guess I was way more responsible than I thought, even if I did that I was doing it for the right reasons at the time.


M: 29, H: 31
D: 9
S: 8
T: 13 Y
M: 9 Y
ILYBIDKIILWY 12/09/2012
~~~~
Worrying does not empty tomorrow
of its troubles. ~~~ it Emptys today of its strengths
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: ~乃G才] #2357970
06/13/13 05:27 PM
06/13/13 05:27 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,621
California
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mkultra Offline
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California
Hello Everybody! Wow, it took me all morning to read your stories! I read almost half ,about five of the pages! This is such an inspirational post! The best parts about it are that we are reflective and together with so many similarities. I often feel lonely even though I know so many other people have gone through a divorce. It almost seems like a rite of passage where I live in California! The happily married ones are the rare ones! Or a member of some cult??!! Lol. Sigh.

After reading the Five Love Languages, I see that lack of communication was the biggest culprit in the loss of my marriage. My ex became accustomed to keeping secrets regarding his sexual needs, his family background, even his grades in college, and getting laid off. I guess he did not want to disappoint me or my family. I always loved him and told him so, but his love language was affection. I was used to saying how I was proud of him, but I did stop having sexy time with him.

I now know that my own love language is quality time. The one thing he never had was time because he struggling to finish school or to find a job. Then, came the babies and I was consumed with motherhood. I guess I thought it was OK to ignore him and then my love language became action and deeds: caring for the babies, cooking, shopping, cleaning, even though I was never good at cleaning! I was really good at being a MOM! So good that I forgot to be a WIFE! After a few years, we truly did live like co-parents or even brother and sister. I am really ashamed to admit that last part.


Me:38 H:39 MLC
M:10 R:23 years
D6 S3
Bomb: Easter, 2007
"Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day."
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2362040
06/27/13 06:25 AM
06/27/13 06:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 34
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dustmeoff Offline
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Sorry to do this to your post but can anyone reading this explain why my posts wont appear when i start a new topic ? Keeps saying amoderator will check and it will appear . Been a week , I keep resubmitting. Topic is fine and within forum topic ?

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: dustmeoff] #2362212
06/27/13 08:05 PM
06/27/13 08:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,014
Martinsburg, WV
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NNP1965 Offline
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If I click on your name all the threads you ahve started. You probably need to contact admin to find out why they are not showing up in the forums.

I did just reply to one and then it showed up... no idea why.


Me 54
DS19 and DS17
Married 06/1989
Divorced 01/2011
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: NNP1965] #2380560
08/29/13 01:10 AM
08/29/13 01:10 AM
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Posts: 48
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I love this thread. I recently apologized to my ex shortly after our divorce for my contribution. Seeing the reality so clearly is tough as I wish I had such knowledge while we were together. Marriage is an active relationship, it is an activity that requires constant work and reflection and adaptation. Above all it takes communication and compromise.

My ex didn't really like to compromise. My ex handled our distance wrong and found her needs in the arms of another. I understand it all. At the end of the day it takes compromise and maturity to work through things as a team. It takes a strong sense of reality. It takes the will of two people.

I was hurt and too weak to realize that when my ex left was the time I needed to be strong and step up. It was the time I had to prove our love was worth fighting for. Instead I made the mistake many do as I was hurt and focused on my pain and anger rather than seeing her actions as a cry for help, as an escape.

It is a lesson to us all and I believe we all will be better partners in the future. Those of us that were willing to work beyond infidelity though can honestly say we have a strong sense of what marriage and commitment mean. We are all willing to look beyond such things.

Regardless, I know I handled it wrong. Next time, well there won't be a next time. I won't allow such a thing to ever progress like this again. Hindsight is 20/20. smile


together 7+yrs
Married 3
Me 33
W 33
no kids
BD 9/12
MC 9/12
W leaves MC 10/12
W moves out 11/12
Divorce 2/13
W moves 5/13
NC 05/13
D final 8/13
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2385831
09/16/13 05:14 PM
09/16/13 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 138
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BKS Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chazz
[quote]

Jesus (arguably the most influential man in history) was explicit. Divorce is wrong. Yet our culture goes where it goes. I do not understand why. So I have resigned to do the best I can and let that influence who it does.


Chazz, This is a very profound sentiment. I agree so much with its message. Be the best you can be, even when the people around you are being less than they can be.

Someone else posted here something else that I thought deserves another mention: Love them when they least deserve it. For that is when they need love the most

BKS


M46 W45 T12 M10 S9 D4
BD 2/13
Divorced 5/14
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: BKS] #2462332
06/22/14 03:53 AM
06/22/14 03:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 335
usa
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scooby Offline
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usa
I am not quite divorced - but here it goes. Working different shifts. Not exploring H childhood and discovering how awful it was and that he was not healed. Not seeing the signs of MLC. Being too nice, and not speaking my mind - just would be silent when wrong things were said. Not attending counseling after H first EA. Making H feel like he came last in R behind me and kids. Lack of communication on both our parts.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: scooby] #2479497
08/15/14 10:34 PM
08/15/14 10:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 223
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CS000 Offline
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I was too selfish, didn't get help for my depression, became angry and bitter, didn't compromise enough, put our relationship last, didn't seek couples counseling till it was too late, I let him control me. Now just working on myself so I can have a better life. I also don't want to have another bad relationship.


Me 34
M 2.5 (Both 2nd M)
My kids-D 17,S 16,S 12
BD 2/14
D final 7/2014
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Chazz] #2479629
08/16/14 07:26 AM
08/16/14 07:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 634
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ye21 Offline
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This is a cool post, for me this is what I learned:

When we start a relationship or a marriage, we know the person we are marrying or at least we think we know them very good.

When my M ended I was accused of absolutely everything, and this is where the twist comes. My wife acussed me of not supporting her career, now I look back and I did support her, yes I didnt went to one play she did, due to not being able to handle a situation were she was kissing another man....

I am not perfect neither she is, and I searched for help to fix that issue, none of us are perfect and we dont get married after we sign a "perfection" contract
For some people the search of perfection will ended killing their marriage but hey you cant be perfect.
It took me a Divorce to realize that I could not be perfect and I dont want to focus my life in been perfect either.
Once your spouse leaves if you seat down and you look at the reasons why they left you, then you realize how minimal in most cases they are, they are not important enough for somebody to create all the pain they created.

So I changed many things I didn't like about my old me, however in my life there is no space to change who I am in order to believe that the relationship will be then perfect...

Its all about loving ourselves , you can't be with somebody who doesnt love themselves.

My wife made me believe many things and I believed them because I was scared of being along, however she choosed to end the relationship because as I discover recently she was in an affair with another guy for over a year...


When the student its ready, the teacher will appear...
Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me."
Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: ye21] #2479704
08/16/14 04:50 PM
08/16/14 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 223
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CS000 Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
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Ye21,

I agree that you can't expect perfection nor that marriage takes work. We do have to like and love ourselves. It's easy to believe all the things that the S says because Imo we are desperate to keep them and our M. For me my goal is to work on healing and loving myself then maybe I can start dating but I believe that it will probably take me over a year. Anyways, I do believe most things are fixable just like MWD says. The divorce trap is a beast frown


Me 34
M 2.5 (Both 2nd M)
My kids-D 17,S 16,S 12
BD 2/14
D final 7/2014
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: CS000] #2511606
11/28/14 04:45 AM
11/28/14 04:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 6
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justbob Offline
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I am new to the forum and moderation for my posts is taking a while - holidays not helping, maybe.

I have been married and divorced 3 times and I am married once again for life, now, since 2001.

I have been reading this forum quite a bit and being retrospective because my wife and I are in the process of officially joining the R. Catholic Church. Part of that process involves the (church) annulment of our previous marriages. A very detailed and lengthy procedure.

But rather than go into any specific details here on my own situations in the past - what I would like to mention is the great similarity I see in many (actually all) marriages/relationships and the great early debate in Christian theology of "works vs. faith" as the way to salvation of our souls, forever.

"Faith" and belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ is necessary for our salvation - per many, many verses in the Gospels. And "works" alone can NOT bring salvation and is unnecessary because Jesus died/atoned for all our sins with His greatest sacrifice. Nonetheless, works ARE deemed important in so many Gospel passages, as well as in Acts and many Epistles in the wisdom of Paul, Peter, and James. But only works IN SUPPORT OF FAITH - not as any kind of substitute. I.e. - one can't bargain with God and enter heaven "on our own terms because we EARNED it thru our "good works" alone."

In our purely human love relationships - the feeling/belief another person loves is always based on faith. For none of us can know what is truly in the hearts of our beloved of absolute factual certainty. We ALL must have faith in that other person's love for us - but such presumed knowledge is only reinforced by "works" - the actions of our beloved that indicate their love is indeed true. (Note how infidelity plays into this so terribly in so many ways.) But THEY are in the same situation as we are - we must constantly validate and revalidate our own love for them thru positive works THAT SUPPORT OUR LOVE (rather than our "needs" or our "desires" or really anything "me, me, me") and in the ways that they understand. This is where "love thy neighbor as thyself" comes in - but always remember this NT version of the Golden Rule comes SECOND to "the greatest commandment of the Law - is love God with your entire heart, soul, and mind." It is this "loving God" first which defines an external objective moral base that everyone (who at least studies the Bible - Old and New Testaments) can relate too and understand and meaningfully talk about. Pity all those poor modern secularists/atheists who deny ANY objective external morality and only believe in "subjective" or "relative" morality where everyone has their own personal definition of right and wrong, of what "love" is, what even the "Golden Rule" means.

With these ideas as a starting point now revisit Paul's wonderful definition of "love" in First Corinthians - as a pragmatic philosophic definition vs. "just" Christian religion (or ANY kind of "religious superstition.") God is not mentioned in these famous "love verses" - nor is "great sex", "intimacy", "emotional needs fulfillment", or even "great provider" - but many concrete examples of how we as human beings can show other human beings that "yes, I really do love you."

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: 3K451] #2562826
04/30/15 05:18 PM
04/30/15 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 26
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ntincu Offline
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After my ex announced that she wanted counseling, I tried to figure out the best I could what I was doing to harm my marriage, but the damage was already past repair. Her confronting me was like getting doused with cold water. It really woke me up to how my depression was affecting everyone. I really wish it hadn't taken that to get me to see it.

I think I also became focused on myself too much, partly a symptom of depression I guess. I was self-absorbed and surly/whiny. She lacked the social skills to call me on my behavior. She held everything in until it exploded, and then it was over. We never argued, but a lot of that was that she couldn't handle confrontation. Talking about her feelings openly is something she isn't good at.

I never was able to find out what her reasons were for the divorce. She just said she was unhappy. I suspected another man, but never had conclusive proof. She is now openly dating the guy I suspected she was having an affair with.

For my part I think my real contribution to the end of my marriage is that I closed her out. I didn't leave any room for her, so she found room somewhere else. I'm not excusing her actions, but I have to admit where I went wrong. I hope she sees where she was at fault, but unfortunately I think I'm still the fall guy in that relationship. I'm hoping for the sake of my kids that she doesn't keep repeating the same mistake.


Me: 43 W:36
Married:9yrs
D: 7 D: 3
Dropped Bomb: 1/12
Start Reconcile: 3/12
Filed Papers: 7/13
Divorced: 10/14
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: ntincu] #2607821
09/18/15 12:14 PM
09/18/15 12:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2
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Tman Offline
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I stumbled across this thread while searching for answers to my own questions. This particular topic is one of the most painful of all of the lessons we are presented thru a divorce.
When my ex first left me, I was very angry and spent the next several months blaming her, justifying blaming her or justifying myself for blaming her for everything!
The reality is that I played a huge role in the demise of my marriage. I made many mistakes. I withdrew, I was depressed, I was afraid. All of these were the result of my biggest mistake of not taking care of my self. I allowed my failures and my mistakes to define who I was. I stopped being me in trying to fill some imperfectly preconceived idea of whatever role I was supposed to be playing (husband, father, provider, etc).
By not taking care of myself, the relationship crumbled.

Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: Tman] #2614066
10/10/15 01:16 AM
10/10/15 01:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,965
twilight zone
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JksD Offline
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twilight zone
I wish I had come across this website in the months leading to the divorce. I was and still am in a very bad place. But this forum has given me a lot of encouragement. Wished that I had read Michele's books before rather than after the divorce.

I had already realised the part I've played in the failure of my marriage in the months leading to the divorce. We have always had communication issues throughout our marriage, right from the very first year. I tried counselling a few times and to give him credit, he did attend a few sessions. We always stopped because he felt that the counsellors were biased against him and I felt that it was futile.

I started shutting myself out from him emotionally as well as physically. The physical part wasn't really intentional as I was on med that affected my libido. The emotional part was a way of protecting myself as he is very emotionally detached. He wanted and still wants a fairy tale life with none of the stresses of reality. The only way I could take on everything myself and not crumble was to withdraw.

Nevertheless, I realise that as hurt as I was and am by his violent outbursts and his affair, and his threat to cut off our child from his life if I were to stop the divorce, the actions that I had taken to protect myself would have hurt him as well.

After reading all the self- help books that I could have done things differently to reach out to him and meet our needs better. But hindsight is a bittersweet pill to swallow.

So here I am now, in limboland after the divorce. Do I go on with my life or do I try to see if reconciliation is possible? Leading to the divorce, he has suggested reconciliation a few times but each time, he would change his mind. The first few times, he decided to take his chance with th OW. The last time he mentioned reconciliation, he insisted that the divorce would still go through, especially after I insisted that he cut off all contact with the OW.

And now, he sees our kid almost every night, and tells me that he has never said that he didnt want me to join them for dinners. What gives?

Anyway, sorty for hijacking this thread. Was feeling rather emotional and down today.


You can call me Dory/ Grl.

As a wise fish once sang,"Just keep swimming!"

It's no use to go back to yesterday because I was a different person then.
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: JksD] #2638344
01/04/16 10:15 PM
01/04/16 10:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 58
Northern Indiana
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Nate W Offline
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Northern Indiana
I definitely played a big part of the breakdown of my marriage.

I never delt with my childhood issues that left me full of pain, negativity and hatred. I had emotional affairs and became addicted to porn as well as battling alcoholism. I would go out to bars with friends get trashed and act stupid but wouldn't do very much with her. I fought depression and totally shut down and pushed her away and abandoned her. When my dad died I wouldn't let her in to help me when I needed her the most. We had the separation and marriage counseling talk about a year prior to the total breakdown and I smooth talked my way out it and promising change that didn't last long. After we separated I didn't giver her the space she needed and pushed further and further away.....


M 39 XW 35
T 11 M 7.5 No Kids
BD 8/15 Served 9/15
D 12/15

I don't know where I'm going, but I sure know where I've been-- David Coverdale
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: mastateflower] #2712876
10/28/16 10:09 AM
10/28/16 10:09 AM
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Posts: 182
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I believe that I didn't try to fulfill her needs before mine, not always the case, but more so after I discovered something fishy was going on. I also reacted to what she said without validating her feelings, I didn't pay enough attention to the emotions behind her words.
When we would drink together, there where times that I became over critical and a fight would ensue. I would also say that this pattern was escalated because she would often lure me into that behavior. It was a viscous cycle.


M 21 years
XW 43yo, me 41 yo
S13
BD March 2016 - she asked me to patient...
End of June - I started the D process.
D final 2/23/17
"He who forgets will be destined to remember"
Eddie Vedder
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: coffee_] #2715714
11/12/16 08:36 PM
11/12/16 08:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
Washington
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ciluzen Offline
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Washington
I didn't know how to listen without talking or validating his feelings. I was so co-dependent that I had no life outside of him, the kids, and the people he chose to be friends with. I thought that was showing him how much I loved him. I was vocal about my unhappiness with always doing his activities, his things he wanted to do, but never tried to make myself happy. The only thing I did for myself was to do things for the kids...still not what I wanted to do but what I felt I should. When he started looking elsewhere (EA) I attacked him, but still didn't work on me. You live, you learn, I guess.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Re: What we each did wrong that hurt our marriage [Re: ciluzen] #2726852
01/23/17 12:10 PM
01/23/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,937
D
Dawgs Offline
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Dawgs  Offline
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D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,937
It took me a long time to be able to post in this thread. Reason being, is that I really beat myself up over the demise of my marriage. Truly.

However, it wasn't until after BD that realization of a few things - mainly my ex's issues resulting from the abuse she suffered from early childhood until early adulthood. I'm not putting the blame entirely in her basket, as that wouldn't be truthful. While a good bit can - and should - fall on her shoulders, it can't entirely.

Two main things stand out in my case: My reactions (for lack of better word) and my relationship with her sister. Sister first - that couldn't be helped, for the most part. While I could have just sit there and let the sister run roughshod over both me and my ex, I didn't. It's not in my nature to stand idly by and let someone attempt to dominate me - or my ex, for that matter. So a lot of friction resulted from that part of the relationship. It didn't help that the x-SIL tried to split us up from when we were dating (it was later revealed that this has happened in every one of the ex's relationships).

And then there are my reactions, I guess you could call them. My ex was a "yes" person who never once stood up for herself. My IC (who was our MC) said it was probably a survival technique left over from her childhood. So, whenever something came up - whether it be an argument, something she wanted to do/go, her sister, whatever - she only asked once and that was it. No more. No discussions, just asking one time. In MC, she had said that if it were important, she wouldn't have to mention something more than once... Out of that, she got the idea that I was insensitive, when in reality the truth of the matter was that she didn't stand up and say/ask.

Had I known her past, I could have gone a different direction and wouldn't be here today. I guess not knowing is sort of being insensitive, is it not? They say one should know automatically, but how can you?

So, I guess that's my contribution to the demise. Maybe I should have paid more attention to the little flags, but how could you when something is said once?


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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