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ford #1544585 08/04/08 01:36 AM
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sgctxok Offline OP
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Depends on the boundary, depends on the consequence. It SEEMS to work better for women than for men. Some folks need to do it....and some men need to be really careful about this.


Sometimes it seals the deal for a woman who has left.


ford...are you playing with my affections ;\)

Last edited by sgctxok; 08/04/08 01:36 AM.

sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
sgctxok #1544786 08/04/08 06:10 AM
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Man up doesn't mean become an ass.

It also does not mean throw your weight around and bark out orders.

But I would honestly love to hear from any of the women out here as to whether or not they would have respect for a man who allowed a wandering female spouse to do whatever they chose to do and just accepted it.

To me man up means to be honest about who you are and what you think is appropriate from a spouse.

And yes, sometimes that means boundaries. But as J3B is quick to remind us, boundaries mean nothing unless we are ready and willing to enforce them. And that means consequences.

Consequences are not punishments.

We are not dealing with children here.

Our spouse, regardless of their wacked out emotional condition, knows dog goned well what is right and what is not. They might have become like an alien, but they have not left the planet. They know full well when they are crossing lines.

It's my belief that reasonably applied and enforced boundaries for behavior, with consequences that are for OUR protection and care, are not things that close the door or seal the deal for our wives.

And if you are a man who is tolerating a cheating, cake eating spouse, and encouraging that behavior by condoning it implicitly through your neediness, I think you're much more likely to be treading down the path of "sealing the deal."

A woman who does not respect you is not going to want to return to you.

There is room for manning up. In fact there is a strong need for it with some of the guys who come to this board. We just need to be good about making it clear just what that means and doesn't mean.


Blessings,

Bill


"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Bworl #1544806 08/04/08 06:43 AM
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Manning up is not sending your wife on guilt trips.

Manning up is simply stating what you want and what you are going to do.

Manning up is not being a sook.

Manning up is not saying... "if that's the way you feel" or "so you don't want to spend time with me?"

Just my teensy bit of input... trying to get back into posting


**
Purple

As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe

sgctxok #1545082 08/04/08 02:54 PM
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SG

I see where you're coming from.

there are so many variables in different situations.

if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.

Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.

also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.

I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal

I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.

ya know what I mean, vern?

ford #1546821 08/05/08 06:12 PM
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Quote:
They don't get it.

THEY are part of the problem.


Mike you said it all. It's your fight to fight. You only fight for something you want, need, and care about.

LostPhil #1547219 08/06/08 12:01 AM
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Phil:

Yep.

I think about that line that Liam Neeson says to his kids in "Rob Roy":

"Honor is a gift a man gives to himself."

I've lived my teenage and adult life in a way that adheres to the concepts of honor, integrity, and the sanctity of a person's oath. It's easy to follow that code when things aren't going well and the world, your friends, and family support you. Following that code when you've been betrayed and, in the eyes of the world, "have every right" to lash out is the hard part. The path that I -and many of us- have chosen is difficult, painful, lonely, and invites the ridicule of others.

I can't be bothered with "friends," family, or other people who interpret my actions as being a "doormat." Screw them.

I will stand for and fight for (DB-style) my marriage, behaving in a way that will allow me to look my kids in the eye, myself in the mirror, and at my God and honestly state that I did ALL that I humanly could to save my marriage and my family.

Yes, I, through my well-off, very protective, and very connected parents, have the resources to hire a barracuda and get full custody of my sons and keep 100% of my cash. But what would that teach my sons (other than not to screw with Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa...)? And yes, being a not-unattractive, intelligent, interesting guy living in a college town could almost guarantee that I could "get me some," but once again, what the hell would it teach my sons? I'm better than that. Vengeance in the name of "protecting myself" and/or bed-hopping to satisfy my urges is beneath anyone with a functioning moral compass.

Like I said - those that interpret my efforts as being too conciliatory or being a doormat can, well ... bite me.


Me: 47
Kids: 2 boys, 14 & 8
Bomb: 5/5/08
Married: 16 years, together 20
Divorce final 8/11/10
I remarried, to an amazing woman: 3/17/12...
"Once in awhile, in an ordinary life, love gives us a fairy tale"
ford #1547247 08/06/08 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: ford
SG

I see where you're coming from.

there are so many variables in different situations.

if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.

Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.

also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.

I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal

I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.

ya know what I mean, vern?



One man's common sense is another man's downfall.
--Virginia Peeples




There ARE so many variables in each situation. And truly, what someone posts about their situation isn't the full story.

We all pretty well know, ultimatums rarely work.

And when a woman who has usually been faithful walks out or is ready to leave ... a man falling apart doesn't work. Setting boundaries and consequences....if you look around at the results....SOUNDS like great common sense and advice...but it doesn't seem to 'work'. WHY....we could look at lots and lots of emotional/psychological reasons. But that isn't what we do here....we experiment and monitor results.....do more of what works and do less of what doesn't work.


What SEEMS to be key is how your W EXPERIENCED you .... not the way you think you treated her.

You might not have been abusive....you might have just been too distant. But first work on repairing your end with her. Do your work before you start setting boundaries.....and be real honest.....and get HER perspective first.


sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
ford #1547248 08/06/08 12:19 AM
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sgctxok Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ford
SG

I see where you're coming from.

there are so many variables in different situations.

if you were a controlling prick who belittled the wife, I can't see boundaries working well in that sitch. But I do see them working in many others.

Manning up shouldn't be used to be an abusive tyrant, but at the same time, acting as if while the wife rides the strange dick express isn't going to make you look too attractive either.

also, acting as if during an affair tears huge holes in a mans soul. holes so large that if the wife does come back, they manifest themselves into huge rivers of resentment that erode even more of your soul.

I think it goes back to the "do what works" deal

I was just checking with you on your stand with boundaries.

ya know what I mean, vern?



One man's common sense is another man's downfall.
--Virginia Peeples




There ARE so many variables in each situation. And truly, what someone posts about their situation isn't the full story.

We all pretty well know, ultimatums rarely work.

And when a woman who has usually been faithful walks out or is ready to leave ... a man falling apart doesn't work. Setting boundaries and consequences....if you look around at the results....SOUNDS like great common sense and advice...but it doesn't seem to 'work'. WHY....we could look at lots and lots of emotional/psychological reasons. But that isn't what we do here....we experiment and monitor results.....do more of what works and do less of what doesn't work.


What SEEMS to be key is how your W EXPERIENCED you .... not the way you think you treated her.

You might not have been abusive....you might have just been too distant. But first work on repairing your end with her. Do your work before you start setting boundaries.....and be real honest.....and get HER perspective first.


sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Mike85 #1547372 08/06/08 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mike85
Phil:

Yep.

I think about that line that Liam Neeson says to his kids in "Rob Roy":

"Honor is a gift a man gives to himself."

I've lived my teenage and adult life in a way that adheres to the concepts of honor, integrity, and the sanctity of a person's oath. It's easy to follow that code when things aren't going well and the world, your friends, and family support you. Following that code when you've been betrayed and, in the eyes of the world, "have every right" to lash out is the hard part. The path that I -and many of us- have chosen is difficult, painful, lonely, and invites the ridicule of others.

I can't be bothered with "friends," family, or other people who interpret my actions as being a "doormat." Screw them.

I will stand for and fight for (DB-style) my marriage, behaving in a way that will allow me to look my kids in the eye, myself in the mirror, and at my God and honestly state that I did ALL that I humanly could to save my marriage and my family.

Yes, I, through my well-off, very protective, and very connected parents, have the resources to hire a barracuda and get full custody of my sons and keep 100% of my cash. But what would that teach my sons (other than not to screw with Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa...)? And yes, being a not-unattractive, intelligent, interesting guy living in a college town could almost guarantee that I could "get me some," but once again, what the hell would it teach my sons? I'm better than that. Vengeance in the name of "protecting myself" and/or bed-hopping to satisfy my urges is beneath anyone with a functioning moral compass.

Like I said - those that interpret my efforts as being too conciliatory or being a doormat can, well ... bite me.






I LOVE IT!!!!


sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
sgctxok #1547404 08/06/08 02:32 AM
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Mike85,

As far as male DBers go:

You are DA BOMB!

I can hardly believe you have been at this for such a short time. Reminds me of a Robert Redford film a couple of decades ago; "The Natural."

We should all print out your above post, glue it to a 2 X 4, hold it with both hands and periodically pop ourselves on the forehead with it like those monks at the beginning of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."


"Fear is the mind-killer" Muad'Dib
Me 53, XW 44, DD 14, DS 12
Bomb and OM 12/15/06
Separated 01/02/07
Divorced 05/13/08
X married OM(OMH) 08/2009
Married 06/09/13
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