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Originally Posted By: hopeforfuture
Originally Posted By: oldtimer
A: No. Love may be a choice, but you can't make that choice for H, and he isn't making it. Moreover, I don't think love really is a choice. You can CHOOSE to give love a chance, support it, nurture it, and so on. But, you simply can't point at some person at random and choose to love them.


Just wanted to comment on this one point. I think this is something a lot of us struggle with. Oldtimer, you are correct in that you can't decide to love just anyone at random and hope that it works, but I don't think that is where the majority of us started out. (with the exception of arranged marriages)

For the most part, we all started down this relationship path falling madly and head over heels with the perfect partner and at some point decided to take the plunge and get married. A few years down the road is where the 'decision' to love really needs to kick in. Life, responsibilities, stress, etc come knocking on the door and we forget that a long term, committed relationship takes a lot of nurturing and work. Falling in love typically just happens. Maintaining that love is where the decision is.


Hopeforthefuture, I'm glad you used the term "for the most part" because though my m was not arrainged we weren't "head over heels in love" when we got married. H and I met while very young (I cringe when I hear about my cousins or any young persons in long term relationships at that age) I was just 16 and he 19...though we did have a few break ups during that time (they never really lasted long) 9 years after meeting we got married. I've always been the one to evaluate and express concern for our r. H has always made promises for the future. I believed those promises but now find myself realizing they were empty unless of course they will somehow come to fruition in another 20 years when he's retired but somehow I don't think that's going to happen. I've been trying to feed the relationship and keep it going for over decade...I can't get through to h no matter what I do, don't do, say, don't say, say it differntly etc. I've even gone to the effort of trying to compare our r to something he can relate to...lawns...if you don't water, fertelize, irrate, overseed, mow and care for a lawn it will not be what you want. You can dream for it, hope for it, wish for it, do a couple of little things to it but it's just not going to be a lush green carpet unless you do what is needed. He understands and believes that when it comes to lawns but apparently he thinks you don't have to do anything for a r and it will just be. Or maybe he's thinking he can let the r just sit while he does other things and then someday he can start caring for it like you can with a lawn...trouble is I'm not a lawn I am a human being. The yard doesn't care if it has lush green grass or not but I do care that at best I have even a yellowish (if compared to a lawn) m with lots of bald patches and weeds growing everywhere not to mention the leaves and sticks lying around from the fall that didn't get cleaned up and the sand and dirt blown over from the drive way. He'll certainly clean the yard and we'll have a beautiful lawn once again come late spring but our m will still be drying up and balding.


I chose to love him. I chose to trust him. I chose to believe in him and what have I gotten in return? Two beautiful children, a nice home and a highly maintaned lawn, but a crappy m.

Should the fact that he is currently the breadwinner, takes out the trash and cares for the lawn wonderfully be enough?

Maybe he'll have another a and leave or just decide to leave and I wont have to be the one making the choice not to him love anymore but I really can't put my future in his hands can I. My only alternative (considering the fact that it appears this is "just the way he is" and is not willing to make any changes) seems to be to make that decision myself. As I've said to him I don't know how much longer I can do this...of course all he can say to that is "well that sucks" Here I'll give you the exact word for word if it will help you to understand exactly where I'm coming from

sil (while preg with first child) and her new h had come to stay at our house for a night after spending the day out looking for their new home. Sil was complaining that her h was still wanting sex...I told her she was lucky (my h didn't want sex with me at all the minute he knew I was preg) gave them a book to read and went downstairs to h who was still sitting awake at the bar.

Me: "I hate people that are in love"

H: "what?"

Me: "well no I don't really hate them it just makes me sad sometimes"

H: "what?"

Me: "I thought when you came home (from sep, ow, his adimantly wanting D) we were supposed to be growing closer together but I feel like we are just growing further and further apart and I don't know how much longer I can do it"

H: "well that sucks"

end of discussion This was roughly 3 years ago. Not much has changed other than h is not awake in the evenings (he's often in bed before I put the kids to bed at 8PM even though he gets up just a few minutes before us)


LL

Last edited by lostlove; 03/12/08 02:18 PM.
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During our 9+ month seperation h payed the bills and mowed the lawn (even though I asked him to show me how to do it) and on a few occassions handed me wads of cash, even talked about putting in a pool for me and the kids (it was a hot summer and we've since gotten a pool) as well as other small things around the house. H was attentive to me and the kids more during our seperation. H arrived promptly on the evenings he was scheduled to visit the kids and actually spent time with them and then at different times would even spend time with me.

Now h pays the bills and cares for the lawn...gets home a different time each night (I no longer ask when he'll be home) and often when he says he'll be home at 4 he doesn't show up until 5:30 without a word that he'd be coming home later or an appology or reason for why he's 1 1/2 hrs later than he said he would be...of course I don't call and say "where are you" and when he does get home I don't say "where have you been" those were the things that I had done BEFORE ow and BEFORE seperation that he didn't like.

What's my point?

If the 9+ month seperation while I was caring for our two children who at the time were both under 3 is any indicator of what D would be like...I'll take it!!! Trouble is that may have been what D would be like then with HIM deciding the M was over and him having OW. If it's me that decides (or more like points out the fact that) the M is over I'm not so sure it will go that way.

Why do I feel like a prisoner or a child with no control.

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"Why do I feel like a prisoner or a child with no control. "

Because that is how you are treating yourself. Your role, your choice. You are a free adult. Your life is a result of your choices.


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Oldtimer
oldtimer #1385882 03/14/08 12:04 AM
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here's an example of how little interaction there is between h and the kids and I.

Today is Thursday...for the winter h has been working on Th & Fr at a place about 2hrs away...sometimes he's come home on Th night and sometimes he's stayed with relatives that have a home there. Today he left before we got up and called while I was driving the kids to school so didn't reach me...he called again around 10AM to see if I knew the results of a town vote last night that he attended. He called again around 4:30 while the kids and I were at a weekly activity that takes place from 3-5 every Thurs. He did not call my cellphone that I had with me. His message only said "anyone there? OK I'll call later" it is now 8PM the time that the kids go to bed and he still hasn't called...I do not know if he is on his way home or if he is staying up there because he didn't say. The point I'm trying to make is that..the kids haven't even asked where he is or if he is coming home. In past weeks he's not told me his plans but I overheard him telling son he'd be staying up there...WTF.

LL

H was never very good at verbal communication...I used to write to him...not that that ever really did any good...sure he'd read them but a discussion never occured as a result. I don't feel like having another go no where conversation with him...thinking of writing something...I'll draft something and post it to see if anyone can help me get rid of any blaming, nagging things that aren't needed. I figure it's the least I can do at this point. Like most h's of was...h thinks that if I'm not complaining that everythings fine.

LL

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Originally Posted By: oldtimer
"Why do I feel like a prisoner or a child with no control. "

Because that is how you are treating yourself. Your role, your choice. You are a free adult. Your life is a result of your choices.


Sorry to butt in here but man, that is good, OT. I am writing that one down to use on myself.

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LL,

Good plan. *More movement.* \:D


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Just put some things down...very very very rough draft


I am appreciative of the effort you have put in over the years at growing and tending to your business as a means to provide a beautiful home for our family. I am grateful for the fact that you working as hard as you do affords me the luxury of staying home with our children. I am honored to have one of the best if not the best yards in our town and probably surrounding area. I take pride in knowing that my husband is able to and does care for the outside appearance of our home making it a welcome place for gatherings of family and friends and often both. I feel lucky to have a husband that is smart enough with finances that our children do not have to go without but still learn the discipline of waiting for and/or earning the luxuries they have. I am proud, honored, grateful… that your efforts at providing a good life for our family allows us to entertain without wondering how we will pay for the food, that we can take annual vacations that don’t put us in debt. I am grateful and lucky in so many areas that it saddens me to feel the emptiness that I do when it comes to our marriage and ultimately our family.

The distance growing between us is heartbreaking. These feelings are as you know not new. I tried when we were just dating to accept the fact that we didn’t spend much quality time together because you were busy securing a strong financial future for us. I believed you when you told me the next year would be better because you’d be more secure in your business. When we were getting married I thought that I’d find myself just as busy with our home and children and wouldn’t mind you being so busy with your business. As the years have passed by you’ve become more and more vested in your business…that I still respect and do understand there is now the added pressure of the sole responsibility for the financial stability of our family on your shoulders. Unlike some wives, I have no fear that the phones will get shut off or we’ll have to serve only hot dogs and burgers at our next cook out because we can’t afford steak and chicken. I don’t worry that our children won’t be able to participate in extracurricular activities because we need that money to pay the bills. I don’t worry that you’ll gamble away our retirement or the kids savings. There are a lot of things I don’t have to worry about and for that I am again grateful and I know it is YOU who make it so.

Obviously I’m trying to say more here than you are a wonderful provider and maintainer of our home. I’m seriously concerned for our marriage and family. It is not a matter of this week I feel this way or even this season. I know the winter has been hectic with it’s storms but what winter isn’t. The spring will soon come and you’ll be busy with work again until the winter, which again might be busy with snow. It’s not about your business or your very strong work ethic, it’s what it’s always been that those things come first. My complaints are not new to you and maybe that’s why nothing ever changes but now something has to change. I don’t feel connected to you at all and as I said to you three years ago, I don’t know how much longer I can do this (your response then was “well that sucks”) I’ve tried talking to you about our marriage and get nowhere. When I come to you to discuss the state of our marriage you either have nothing to say or you tell me to call a lawyer and put the house up for sale and disrupt the kids lives. I feel very stuck. I’ve tried many ways over the years to ask for what I want and need from our relationship. I’ve tried to give you what you want when you are wiling to let me know what that is. I asked you if you would want for either of our children to end up in a marriage like ours and you agreed that you wouldn’t and yet don’t seem to want to do anything to create a marriage you wouldn’t mind your kids choosing for themselves one day. I’ve asked for what I want/need repeatedly and repeatedly been given reasons why you wont or it just hasn’t happened. Just last January (after you chose to go to see the Pat’s play for the weekend) you told me this (2007) was going to be the year that things would be different when you were going to step up to the plate (not the exact words you used but the point), I don’t feel like that happened.

I don’t want our marriage to be over but I feel like it is. I don’t know what I thought was going to change after our separation but if anything changed it was for the worse not the better. I’m not writing to you to attack you or put this all on your lap I’m writing to you because I feel like I’m at my wits end. I have tried making suggestions like a date night each week, I’ve tried to keep myself busy in hopes that maybe my being busy would peek your interest. I don’t feel like I’ve been met with honesty from you. If you are still not happy in this marriage then it’s not fair to choose to just accept that it’s your cross to bear…it’s not just about you there are other people involved in this marriage (meaning our children).

I think our kids deserve to have a whole family. A whole family to me is not just having mom and dad still married and living under the same roof. It’s having a mom and dad who still make the time to spend with each other, who still laugh together, who are friends and can deal with issues as a team.

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LL,

Seem long, but good.

Can you talk more about your feelings and pain? Open up...


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I know it's long but there are some things that just need to be said. I expect it to be a lot longer by the time I finish it. The real question will be when to give it to him.

I'm thinking of moving to the forum "I'm thinking about leaving" I know there's not as much traffic there but let's face it "piecing" really isn't the place for me.

I've started to accept the fact that d may be the only valid solution. I've been waiting for the better part of 15 years for h to actively participate in this r...it was always promised to get better and didn't then a crisis would come along and I (and others) would think that was what was needed to get him to change...it just hasn't happend. I cannot blame our problems on h's current drinking anymore than I could blame OW for our problems...who knows maybe a d is what he needs to wake himself up.

I have another c appointment on Tuesday, getting somethings done with different volunteer organizations I belong to so have let some things get behind around the house. Busy the begining of this week with those but plan to then get the house in order and get on a regular schedule with going to the gym.

Oldtimer...you are right a decision will be made by me and action taken before the calendar changes to 2009. I really cannot subject myself and my children to this anymore. They may get mad a me...they may suffer the intial shock but I think in short time they will reap the benefits of it. I know a statement that the children will reap benefits of a divorce may sound a horrible thought to some on this board but if you knew my whole sit and the day to day of our lives here you may understand that d may be what is needed to have h step up to the plate as daddy. What will be different is that I will not change my mind once I take that route...there will be no turning back. Once I decide enough is enough it will be over and I'm at the point of enough is enou (yes you see there are just two letters away from being done). I'm not going to be vicious or shady about it but I need to look out for the best interest of my children.

LL

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LL,

Thought I would do a quick drive by since both of us have been at this for a very long time. I get the sense from my IC that the best thing for me would be to "punch out" as well and although I don't want to give up hope - like you, I just don't really know anymore.

Although I don't get much in the way of responses over in Hopefulness, I moved over to there. These days I try to journal although work has been keeping me way too busy - but I try to hit the highlights when I can...

It looks to me that you are at the "After the Last Resort" stage or are very close to that - and there is no going back over the Rubicon once that happens. No judgement from here but I know you will do the best thing for you and your children - and those who really know what you have been through will be in your corner regardless...


Me 52, STBEX 52
D 17, S 12
M 20 years
Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
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