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Originally Posted By: leahsbeau
I kind of understand what you're saying and think you make some valid points but I can't help that think that most marriages wither because both spouses get so busy taking care of the house, the kids, finances,(or lack of) their jobs and almost everything and everyone else that they forget to take care of the one person they vowed to "love, honor and cherish." We take each other for granted and think that "our" time will come but the years keep cranking over and "our" time keeps getting pushed aside.


See that's the part that confuses me. I've always been the one noticing and trying to get him to notice/accept/acknowledge maybe even do something about the fact that we don't/haven't/weren't making the time for us. He always seemed to think that falling alseep on the other couch while watching tv in the same room was somehow enough to keep a r going. I knew he worked alot and was absorbed in his business/sports etc. I may have been naive and young when I married him thinking I'd eventually do the same with the kids and the house that would eventually come along and it wouldn't matter so much that he wasn't really accessable. I've discovered that I can balance life. I can take care of the children, the home, the pets, the laundry, myself and still make the time and have the desire for an intimate relationship with a member of the opposite sex (naimly him). He was the one who wasn't/couldn't/wouldn't/isn't/doesn't

So then why was he the one to have an affair and leave?

sure he's back but it's still work/sports/news for him. Still can't/wont/doesn't make time for US so there is slowly becoming no US...sure there's an us in the sense that I'm his wife, we are the parents, it's our house, we do take two family vacations a year (more like we all go somewhere else for a week or two twice a year) but where is the US.

Yes it seems I've jumped back into the...it should have been me who had the affair...attitude.

I still don't get it.

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looking to find some of my old threads...they were all linked onto one of my older threads but I can't seem to find any. It may be because they are old (then why give that timeframe in the search criteria) or gone for some reason. I've even tried just doing a search in the timeframes of my screen name.

any help would be appreciated. I want to take a look at what if anything has change, what I was doing thinking then, what he was doing then etc.

some names of threads

h can say he wants a divorce
silly monkey
the battle within
h wants to come home
found the key

I know there are more but those are the names that are coming to me.

LL

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Q: Why did H have an A?
A: The M wasn't working for him.

Q: Why?
A: Who knows. But it sounds a lot like neither of you finds the other person to be someone they want as a romantic partner.

Q: Did your not wanting to be M to *him*, but someone you thought he would become play a role in his dissatisfaction with the M?
A: Probably.

Q: Were you/are you a potential WAS?
A: No, you have repeatedly tried to work on the M.

Q: Is your lack of attraction/interest/like/regard/respect/love for H part of the problem in your M.
A: Sure.

Q: Would suddenly having attraction/interest/like/regard/respect/love for H fix the problems in your M.
A: No. Love may be a choice, but you can't make that choice for H, and he isn't making it. Moreover, I don't think love really is a choice. You can CHOOSE to give love a chance, support it, nurture it, and so on. But, you simply can't point at some person at random and choose to love them.

Q: Why do you feel like you are the one who should have had the A?
A: Because you are stuck in the you-are-the-right-and-noble-victim role. Surely, if anyone has been wronged, it has been you. Not very helpful thinking.

-- You are mostly talking to people about 5 years behind you on this stuff. They are still chasing the WAS, desperate for even a chance at reconciliation. You are back in your M, and have been for years.

-- You are circling because you are afraid of doing anything but chasing your tail.

-- You know what, you were wrong about a lot of stuff, you have made mistakes. So what. You are human. We all are. Give up holding onto having been the person who was right and noble. You and H are two vulnerable, hurting people trying to do your best. The M isn't working for either of you. As a result, to cope, you are both doing things you shouldn't and neither of you are at your best.

-- Find YOUR best. Read PM. This is about YOU. I don't care about your H. I care about YOU.

-- Read PM.

-- Read PM.


Best,
Oldtimer
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Originally Posted By: oldtimer
A: No. Love may be a choice, but you can't make that choice for H, and he isn't making it. Moreover, I don't think love really is a choice. You can CHOOSE to give love a chance, support it, nurture it, and so on. But, you simply can't point at some person at random and choose to love them.


Just wanted to comment on this one point. I think this is something a lot of us struggle with. Oldtimer, you are correct in that you can't decide to love just anyone at random and hope that it works, but I don't think that is where the majority of us started out. (with the exception of arranged marriages)

For the most part, we all started down this relationship path falling madly and head over heels with the perfect partner and at some point decided to take the plunge and get married. A few years down the road is where the 'decision' to love really needs to kick in. Life, responsibilities, stress, etc come knocking on the door and we forget that a long term, committed relationship takes a lot of nurturing and work. Falling in love typically just happens. Maintaining that love is where the decision is.


M39
W37
M14
K 10 8
Bomb 7/07
S 4/08
D 6/09

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Hey Oldtimer,

You're right! I fail to recognize the fact (and so do they when posting to me) that I am no newcomer...I've been at this for years. But what about getting back to basics? does that even apply in my sit?

Still doesn't help me to be certain with what to do about the m. I appreciate your reminding me that I am not a waw...but if all waw's posted here first wouldn't their stories sound like mine? wouldn't they be just like me? maybe the difference is a typical waw wouldn't come here and certainly wouldn't hold out for so many years waiting, hoping that something would change the dynamic.

I guess I'll have to get myself a copy of PM and see if it can offer me anything.

LL

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"I guess I'll have to get myself a copy of PM and see if it can offer me anything."

\:D

Look, if you ever get past all this, you'll see that the almighty division between the WAS and the LBS really isn't all that great. The people who find themselves here weren't in healthy Ms. The WASs simply take action first, typically in a way the LBS doesn't like. But it is easy as an LBS to criticize the WAS. Oh, the LBS would have done things so much better. Blah blah blah. Of course, the LBS never had to get up the nerve to act. You are SO HUNG UP on being right, that you can't even bear to think that someone might think you a WAW. Look, if a WAS is so evil, then why is anyone trying to reconcile?

The two biggest problems with being a WAS are easily avoidable:

(1) CLEAR WARNING: Write H an email that says, "H, I am very unhappy in our M. It is not working for me. I am seriously thinking about leaving. Count this as fair warning. If our M doesn't change into an R that works for me, I will pursue a D."

(2) NO CHEATING: Don't start dating/having sex with other people until you make it clear to H that you consider yourself free to date/have sex with other people and you will not be sharing further information about your private life with him.

If you do those things, then you are cleared of any evil-WAW charges that someone might try to lodge against you. I would say, try to keep an open mind after separation. But if you separate, you'll probably be DONE. So, that is probably pretty unrealistic. But, that is OK. You are allowed to close the door on an R that is unhealthy for you, if that is what it comes to.


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Things haven't changed much...I'm still afraid to upset the apple cart full of apples that aren't good enough to make a christmas pie. Constantly questioning if it is as bad as I fell it is or if I just can't get the mud colored glasses off. From my words above you may be able to figure out that I'm begining to take steps toward where I want to be in my life. I've realized that the kinds of things I've been doing to gal have been wonderful and helped me along the way but now I find myself in a holding pattern with h. If I can't motivate him to better our r (or recreate one is more like it at this point)I'll have to motivate myself, decide who I want to be and go for it. Enough letting this m drag me down. I'm going to start living the rest of my life now.



Hi lost.....


What specifically would you like to change in your marriage.

What would you like to have more of...What would you like him to do?




Quote:

(1) CLEAR WARNING: Write H an email that says, "H, I am very unhappy in our M. It is not working for me. I am seriously thinking about leaving. Count this as fair warning. If our M doesn't change into an R that works for me, I will pursue a D."



This is the AFTER THE LAST RESORT TECHNIQUE. It does NOT seem like you are there yet. You only do this when you definitely want a divorce and are done doing anything yourself.

GAL is a good thing. Especially if you are doing things to make you happy. It isn't enough for a marriage though. There are other things you can do as well...depending on your relationship goals.

Last edited by sgctxok; 03/11/08 05:41 PM.

sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
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Originally Posted By: sgctxok


Hi lost.....


What specifically would you like to change in your marriage.

What would you like to have more of...What would you like him to do?


I would like a date night and have asked for it and his answer is NO. A scheduled date night could be anything from getting a sitter and going out to dinner, the movies, running errands or staying home and spending some awake no tv time together after the kids go to bed...this of course would have been a lot easier when the kids were little and in bed tucked in by 7PM now it's still doable but our alone time wouldn't start until 8:30...still OK but he's usually asleep by then. Why he wouldn't agree to this date night? I don't know...so instead we just don't spend time together connecting at all.

obviously anything else really would be foolish if #1 date night (which really is let's spend time fostering a r in a fun way...let's become friends again). How can I ask for a sex life if I no longer want sex with him. And after all when I asked for a more frequent sex life that got balked at too..."that's just the way I am" was the best response I could get. Didn't matter that "that's just NOT the way I am". So he wins...no date night and no sexual relationship.

I'd like for him to be more involved in the kids lives but cannot make any mention of a defecit of anykind in his fathering abilities because he wont hear it. He's a great father in his mind.



GAL is a good thing. Especially if you are doing things to make you happy. It isn't enough for a marriage though. There are other things you can do as well...depending on your relationship goals.


I've been doing things for me all along...they were great for me but didn't help the m at all. Some I've outgrown and some I just put less focus on as other things required more time. The things I've been doing were more busy type things not life goal type things. Joining the gym will be a good ME thing as will going back to school. For over 9 years I've wanted to get my masters first came the kids (no problem I wanted them and don't regret putting off school or a career because of them) then came h's a and seperation. When he first returned I expressed interest in going back to school to which he replied "why don't you just get a job with the degree you have now" that's a great idea for some fields but not mine...I'd be working ridiculous hours in high stress situations for pennies. With an masters degree I'd have more options for employment and pay.

Anyway, Thanks for stopping by..it's always nice to know a moderator is paying attention...and on that note...I have a question for you sgctxok, should I be in this forum if I don't really feel like I'm piecing? I don't think I belong in waw's yet nor do I really feel like "I'm thinking about leaving" is the place for me either...is it just that the gang that was here when h first came home has moved on making me feel like maybe I don't belong here or is it something else? Is it like oldtimer says...I'm 5+ years ahead of where the rest of these posters are?
Does JamesJohn ever post anymore?

LL

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SG,

Actually, I wasn't suggesting that LL do anything right now. I was suggesting ways for her to avoid being a WW.

But, I'm not sure why you are suggesting that she be less than direct with her H about where she is right now. Perhaps you aren't familiar with LL's sitch. She has been trying everything under the sun, and nothing works. She has DB'd meticulously and consistently for extended periods of time, and nothing changes. She has tried new things, and nothing changes. She has pushed herself in pretty much any way possible R-wise to improve her M, and nothing changes. In my view, it is a good thing that she is actually focused on trying to change her life into one that she wants rather than one that she suffers. Maybe it will even help her M. If not, it will still certainly help her.

Maybe as you suggest she is not at the After the Last Resort stage. I'm not sure exactly what that means. But I'd say that she is seriously considering leaving her M, and that she will probably make a choice about that within a year or less. Of course, I can't really *know* that. It is just how it seems to me based on my having known LL for many years and always keeping up with her posts. If I had to lay money, I'd say she's reaching the end unless something really changes. I'm not sure why you think it is a bad idea to give her husband a head's up about this. Her goal is to NOT be a WAW whose husband doesn't know what hit him.


Best,
Oldtimer
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