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#1359257 02/16/08 10:42 AM
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Beginning a new thread...

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Willing to be disturbed...


Me: 34
H: 39
M: 7 yrs
H A 12/05-8/07

If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. - M. Wheatley

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Here is my last post on my last thread. Thank you Cat and FA for the well wishes. I'm really looking forward to our trip - I can't even sleep, lol.

WEll - I still haven't done anything about the sex talk. I still haven't read DR over again with new goals in mind. BUT, next week I'm on vacation and H is working so that is one of the things I will accomplish. I'll be sure to post here.

Yesterday was nice. H and I cooked together and ate by candle-light. It was peaceful. I've been preoocupied lately, partly the sex thing, partly the condition of my house, schoolwork, so I was pretty light on the conversation. I felt bad for H, but I just couldn't force myself to be present. I guess I was feeling a little disappointed because our R is not where it should be. And I do take responsiblity as I know there are things I could be doing and I'm not - read paragraph 1, for starters.

H and I leave tomorrow for a weekend away. We are both really excited. We haven't been away together in a long time - I think since the summer of '06. During that summer, 1 month post A bomb, H and I went to Vermont. We slept in separate beds and had an awful undercurrent running through the trip.

On Thursday, I made reservations for us at an inn we both wanted to stay at. Unfortunately they only had Sunday night available. (this is such a 180 for me - I used to just let H make all of the arrangments - I was always afraid that he wouldn't like what I would choose, so I'd leave it up to him. Now, I have much more confidence to say, This is what I want, this is what I like. And H likes that. I used to be like that prior to getting married...hmmm...) Anyway, I booked the one night and then H today, booked us Saturday night at a different inn. He called me at work to tell me that he did so. There were two rooms available he said. I could have booked us a room with 2 double beds, or pay a little extra and get a room with a queen. I said, what did you choose? (thinking in the back of my mind, we stayed in 2 double beds in Vermont) And he said, I got us the rooom with a queen. And I said, Nice work. He said, yeah, you can't stay in a room with two double beds on a romantic weekend - it's not like we're going to Vermont.
I thought it was cute that he acknowledged the bad time is in the past. I'm trying not to get my hopes up about that bed - if ya know what I mean

So - he picked up his car today. His buddy drove him to the station to get it - and then they are hitting a local brewery for lunch. In the past I would have been jealous of that. I would have felt left out if he were going out with his friends. But, today, I have a life. I'm heading out with some friends after work and am so looking forward to the time with H this weekend.

I hope everyone is making plans to enjoy their weekends. Find something to do!
Em


Me: 34
H: 39
M: 7 yrs
H A 12/05-8/07

If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. - M. Wheatley

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Hi All -

I'm back from our trip. What a nice time! No sex, but tons of cuddling and being together. We had such a great weekend together! Saturday we drove for 4 hours - and chatted the whole way. Stopped in a cute town for lunch on the way to our destination. Had great conversation - really felt like old times. Checked out a winery near where we were staying - had a private tasting for free - fun, fun, fun, and then headed off to our hotel - the one H set up - and yes, we had the queen bed. We were so relaxed all weekend. We had dinner Saturday night in a little town - ate at a pub that had over 130 beers on their menu - yup 130. That was pretty cool. We toured the area on Sunday - and checked in to the inn that I had reserved. I was nervous because it was a little ways out from all of the attractions and kinda in the middle of nowhere. Well, no worries when we finally arrived. The inn keepers were amazing and the place was beautiful. We soaked in the hot tub (our own private one \:\) and ate at a restaurant in town that you would never think was a restaurant - just a little old house transformed into a restaurant - I don't think it could seat more than 20 - the food was amazing and we had a lovely time dining by candlelight. We were in for the night around 8 - watched 2 movies and slept like royalty. We were well fed in the morning, and reluctant to go home. Yesterday H commented that it will be our new get away place. He cannot wait to go back. It was cool that he was so pleased with the accomodations I picked. He wouldn't complain if he wasn't, but it was nice to be appreciated.

So that was the weekend -

Last night, was sex talk. Basically, H doesn't want to talk about it - with anyone, not even me. This is his issue and he'll have to deal with it on his own time.

I got stonewalled - big time. But, he still extremely cuddly, affectionate, loving, etc. So, I know that I need to create a safe environment. Now that I have told him calmly that this issue concerns me, I'm letting it go. He needs to now come around on this. Clearly he isn't ready to deal with it.

In the past, for other issues when H has gotten like this, he usually comes around. For example, H got kicked out of our church when I told the elders he was having an A and that bothered him for a long time. Granted i believe he should have been dealt with (and so does he) but the manner in which it was done was very poor - probably because I'm related to 2 of the elders and they took his A extremely personally. There are other issues there too, but far to many to mention. Anyway, I say this because H was really bothered by the situation there but didn't know how to deal with it, until I told him that I felt he really needed closure there and perhaps going back there would help. But it wasn't until I told him that I think he might want to do that, that he did. And it took about 3 to 4 weeks for him to come around. I'm going to give him 3 to 4 weeks on this - and I'm going to try some stuff in the meantime.

We'll see.
Phew - long post. Thanks for reading ALL of that!

Hope everyone is well!
Em

Last edited by ediemarie; 02/21/08 12:26 AM.

Me: 34
H: 39
M: 7 yrs
H A 12/05-8/07

If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. - M. Wheatley

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awww, what a wonderful time you had, sounded perfect.

And kudos for the way you brough up sex talk, as my C said "just lay the issue next to him", basically not to cram it down his mouth. Keeping my fingers crossed for you \:\)


Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2

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survivor of S, MLC, A, D
I have peace in my heart, at last.
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Hi edie/cat:

I know I ask a lot of you....would one of you partner with beginnersmind on her solution journal (MLC forum)? She is formerly 'dippy'?

Thanks,
sg


sg
Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
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Wow...sounds like a really nice get-a-way trip! I have been wanting to do something like that for a long time with my H. But then he starting having an A, and my plans sort of got put on hold.

Sara


Me-31 H-38
M: 5 yrs T: 7 yrs
No kids
Went to Prostitutes 10-1-06
Found out about OW 12-24-07
Bomb on EA/PA: 1-2-08
OW ended it with H "for good" 3-8-08
OW is back 4-19-08
H and OW tell me that they are in love 5-19-08
Filed for divorce 6-5-08
Divorced 7-2-08
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Hey EM!! I laughed that your H said "Its not like we going to Vermont!". That was funny. Its good you can laugh, but yet acknowledge that you are in such a better place now. The sex thing will come. Funny, my coworker here (he is 45 yrs old)..his W cheated, she ended it, they did Retro, and are soo much better but still haven't had sex yet either. He wants it, she isn't ready. Hard stuff, but totally easier to tackle since you guys are on the 'same team' now.

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Originally Posted By: ediemarie


Basically, H doesn't want to talk about it - with anyone, not even me. This is his issue and he'll have to deal with it on his own time.

I got stonewalled - big time. But, he still extremely cuddly, affectionate, loving, etc. So, I know that I need to create a safe environment. Now that I have told him calmly that this issue concerns me, I'm letting it go. He needs to now come around on this. Clearly he isn't ready to deal with it.

Anyway, I say this because H was really bothered by the situation there but didn't know how to deal with it, until I told him that I felt he really needed closure there and perhaps going back there would help. But it wasn't until I told him that I think he might want to do that, that he did. And it took about 3 to 4 weeks for him to come around. I'm going to give him 3 to 4 weeks on this - and I'm going to try some stuff in the meantime.



OK, ediemarie, here goes. A few ideas for you. You wrote "I'm letting it go, he needs to now come around on this." But likely he won't if left to himself. Just as in the church closure issue, you'll probably have to give a lead.

First of all, a commentary and an instruction from the master, St. Paul writing to the Corinthians (1Cor.7:3-5)

"Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

Now on to a contemporary master of marriage counselling, Willard Harley ("His Needs/Her Needs") Harley's contribution to the discipline was some original research on the differing emotional needs of husbands and wives. He identified 10 emotional needs. All 10 were important to both husbands and wives, but the 10 emotional needs were ranked differently according to gender. For women the #1 emotional need, the one they couldn't do without was 'affection'. For men it was 'sex'. Yes, Harley identified sex as an emotional need, and for men it was #1, the one they couldn't do without, at least not for very long.

So you can pretty well figure it out, that sooner or later, if he's not getting it from you he'll be getting it elsewhere. St. Paul and Willard Harley are in agreement on this issue and both are experts in their respective fields.

Now on to what appleroad has learned from reading what the credentialled sex therapists (David Schnarch et al) have to say about the issue: sexuality for a mature married couple is different from the sexuality of the in-love-with love affair (either pre-marital, early marital or extramarital) It is possible (appleroad has checked this out BTW) to have a satisfying sex life with the sexual encounters not being driven by 'feelings'. In other words, intention alone is enough. Male arousal does not rely on the in-love-with feelings alone. Physical stimulation (hopefully from his partner) will get the job done. And when you really stop to think about it, why should a wife feel that she needs to patiently await from her husband the same lustful, illicit in-love-with feelings that drove him to an A? To an unchaste, immoral OW? Does this make sense?

Do it the wifely way, ediemarie. Insist on you rights -- in your mind, no need to verbalize this to H, only to yourself. Stop giving away your care and affection, it sounds like it's going into a black hole. Make sure you get back from the relationship equivalent to what you're putting into it, make it a truly reciprocal adult relationship. H is coming across as a baby, as a sensitive invalid. It's time for him to "man-up". He's probably afraid of not being able to rise to the occasion without the in-love-with feelings being present. So let him face this fear and conquer it. He's not a baby. He's a man. He needs something more than a safe environment.

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Hi Appleroad - thanks for swinging by! I appreciate your input.

Quote:
Insist on you rights -- in your mind, no need to verbalize this to H, only to yourself. Stop giving away your care and affection, it sounds like it's going into a black hole.


I certainly don't feel like my care and affection is going into a black hole. I don't feel like I'm giving more than I'm getting. I actually feel pretty satisfied in the majority of the areas in our R. Perhaps I'm deluding myself...I'll give it some thought.

Quote:
H is coming across as a baby, as a sensitive invalid. It's time for him to "man-up".

this has been my theme song since this situation began. He needs to man up. In the past, in moments of anger I have even said these very words to H. However, this has to be something he wants to do and he HAS to do it. You can't force someone to man-up. It has to come from within. This has been struggle in our M. How do you coax/cojule/demand/force someone to man up. I don't believe it's possible. Please enlighten me as to how to make this happen...

Quote:
He needs something more than a safe environment.

Any ideas as to what this might be? Perhaps a personal invitation each and every day? I'm truly at a loss here. I feel like I should know how to make this happen, but I just have no clue. Additionally, I don't think it should be this difficult. It is a never ending cycle. I think about solutions, I try them, they don't work, I get frustrated, feel like I deserve so much more (because I do, in terms of sex) and debate leaving my marriage.

Again, he is completely opposed to any sort of counseling and will not discuss this with me. He physically pushes me away if I make any sort of sexual advance and stonewalls me in conversations. I'm back at wanting to throw in the towel and just remains friends...yuck.

thanks for the thoughts!
Em



Last edited by ediemarie; 02/22/08 04:15 PM.

Me: 34
H: 39
M: 7 yrs
H A 12/05-8/07

If what you say surprises me, I must have been assuming something else was true. - M. Wheatley

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 80
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Originally Posted By: ediemarie


... this has to be something he wants to do and he HAS to do it. You can't force someone to man-up. It has to come from within. This has been struggle in our M. How do you coax/cojule/demand/force someone to man up. I don't believe it's possible. Please enlighten me as to how to make this happen...


I think about solutions, I try them, they don't work, I get frustrated, feel like I deserve so much more (because I do, in terms of sex) and debate leaving my marriage.

... he is completely opposed to any sort of counseling and will not discuss this with me. He physically pushes me away if I make any sort of sexual advance and stonewalls me in conversations. I'm back at wanting to throw in the towel and just remains friends...yuck.



You can't make him 'man-up'. But you can show him there will be consequences if he does not. He is not the only actor in this drama. I think he's having it too much his way, ediemarie. You get to have some input into the conditions of your relationship. Probably what's stopping you from flexing your own muscle is fear of H leaving you, leaving the marriage. You dally over whether you can settle for being 'just friends'. I think what's stopping H is performance anxiety. The big question is, whose fear is the greatest? Your fear over losing the friendship and the marriage, or his fear of not being able to rise to the occasion? But also, how long is either one of you willing to wait? Maybe time alone will settle the issue without further intervention.

But it never hurts to have Plan B dusted off and ready to go. Having Plan B can settle you down while you are waiting. When you feel you've waited long enough you could consider making couples therapy with a credentialled sex therapist a condition for the ongoing relationship. Just a few ideas to further your thinking. Also, it wouldn't hurt to do some research into this sexual problem. I've found that some quality time spent with Google can really yield dividends.

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