Trying to be patient

[theotherhalf]

But in DR it says that most affairs only last 6 months or so

Sorry Karen,

I feel your pain, but just so that your eyes are wide open. My H has had the OW for going on 10 months, possibly even longer than that.

Hang in there and take care of you.

[JoieDeVivre]

Karen,
Choc is right, it's not easy to suggest what to do.

It's great that you're seeing an IC. Definitely talk to her at your next session. You know, your H knows you don't like him to text OW around you, so why was it ok with him to take a weekend trip with her? He had to know that would NOT be ok. And, he threw it at you pretty much at the last minute. Dirty pool....

If it were me I'd be telling my H -- not again - not while you're in this house! Or if he did, to pack his crap. But I understand you're avoiding that. I didn't want that either. I felt like no matter what happened, it was better to have my H at home. So, I, too, put up with a lot.

If it makes you feel better, I know my H spent an overnight or two with OW after I found out about the A. But he lied to me about it so I wouldn't know. If he had told me outright I would have said, pack enough to last you for a long time!

The first time he did it I found out by snooping. The second time, OW emailed me in an angry frenzy. But by that time, the A was dying out. If it was still going on full force, I would have asked him to leave. But it would have been the hardest thing I'd ever done. So, I understand why you don't want to do that.

I liked Choc's point about setting boundaries. He will get away with what he can. And, I think if he really wanted to leave, he would be gone by now so think about that before you worry about chasing him away!

Again, talk to your IC!

Joie

[Michael Mc C]

Nope, nobody's going to beat you up about anything you've done. What they (we) will do is simply point out areas where you may need to make some adjustments...

Lots of quotes below, please bear with me:

I said something like well, you shouldn't worry about me, you should just be focused on your own counseling. And that's all I said.

I think this was perfect. "I am taking care of me, don't need you concern. You should be concerned about YOU"

THIS...

I've done a great job with my therapy and working on myself and most people would be amazed at what I've accomplished in many areas pretty quickly

COUPLED WITH THIS...

Yes, I think you've done a great job, but I just wanted you to know where we still are.

...is great, if you are in fact working on acceptance. You do NOT need to accept that divorce is a foregone conclusion but you DO have to be able to accept it if it comes to this. You have done a fantastic job but you still have some work to do, which has been made clear through your past few posts. I'm not criticizing I'm just trying to point out that until you are truly able to see a full life without your husband, you will never be truly detached and HE will never see what he is going to lose.

something in me just wanted him to have his favorite shirts and everything, even though he treats me like dirt

I don't think anyone would put you down for showing your husband love. My first thought when I read this was "damn, she loves him". My second thought, of course, was "she needs to stop taking care of him." As much as it goes against your nature, you should NOT take any part in this area of his life. Let him plan and prepare for his adulterous weekend. I hope that you will NEVER help him, in any way, to nurture this relationship of his in the future.

if they breakup H might want to work on our marriage I think

This is a thought I have had many times but let me tell you, don't count on it - not by default anyway (besides you don't want him coming back just because his fantasy didn't work out). In my sitch, and many other, once the A is over, the WAS still feels there is a need to divorce. "There must have been something wrong in the marriage for this to happen anyway so why would I want to fix things?"

Do NOT invest hope into this happening right away. I don't mean that it's hopeless, I mean that don't expect that if things end for them (I'm praying for that!!) he may very well feel a D is still a necessity. I'll explain my take on my own sitch:

My Wife told me when the OM left this last time that she had a hole that she hasn't felt before. Funny enough, she agreed that this hole did not exist before she met OM - i.e., the relationship part of her life was fulfilled by our marriage. The relationship with OM took time to grow, she slowly invested more time in THAT relationship and had less to invest HERE. She ended up replacing the intimacy that we shared with the intimacy that THEY shared. When he left, there was no longer a source of intimacy. There's nothing there. She looks at me and says "I got nothing..."

95% of the time we are friendly and laughing and get along great which I do try to post as well, then he will do something outrageous to convince me, (but I think also himself), or both that we will be getting divorced. Which I think is weird that you have to be convincing yourself or your spouse that divorce is happening by purposely acting rude

This is a WAS tactic. As long as things seem happy and everyone is getting along then their actions ARE accepted. Learn from others who have been there. Getting along does not mean he is holding on to hopes that your marriage is salvagable. It's harsh, maybe, but he is playing you. His joking, laughing, getting along and being friendly is his way of feeling that you have accepted the situation. My wife played me this way. What really sucks is that you have to look past how good it feels to get along with him and remember that he wants to leave.

I am going to talk to my counselor this Thursday about all of this

Please do. Talk about all of it, including the laundry.

A boundary is not a boundary if you're OK with its crossing once or twice

Very well said Choc, very well said.

If it were ME, the next time he did it, I think his SIM card would mysteriously disappear from the phone, and the battery contacts would suddenly stop working because it's funny how that clear nail polish doesn't really conduct electricity too well, don'tchaknow.

Ha ha! I was snooping months ago and found that my wife was going to send a picture from her cell phone. A few interesting things happened that night. Somehow (one of the kids maybe?) a Sharpie was used on the lens of her camera phone and the pictures weren't coming out too clear. In addition to that, the contacts somehow were no longer MAKING contact (black electrical tape, cut just the right way, looks so natural in the phone - I love the nail polish idea though). Then there was the final incident where the SIM card got fried (something electrical in the phone I guess). In my opinion, however, it looked like someone had held the SIM card over a candle for a few moments, but I'm just a layman...

[karen43]

And thanks for pointing out all the adjustments I appreciate it!

if they breakup H might want to work on our marriage I think

This is a thought I have had many times but let me tell you, don't count on it - not by default anyway (besides you don't want him coming back just because his fantasy didn't work out). In my sitch, and many other, once the A is over, the WAS still feels there is a need to divorce. "There must have been something wrong in the marriage for this to happen anyway so why would I want to fix things?"

Do NOT invest hope into this happening right away. I don't mean that it's hopeless, I mean that don't expect that if things end for them (I'm praying for that!!) he may very well feel a D is still a necessity.

I know this is true, but I think a lot of our problems were my depression and lack of independence which I am working on, and he has anger problems which he has been working on and spent too much time away from home. I was always trying to fix things when we talked; now I'm practicing friendly detachment. I'm sure there were some other issues too, but these were some of our main issues, so I would think with our 2 children he would at least consider marriage counseling if the OW was out of the picture. He said at the beginning of the affair if she was not in the picture he would be working on the marriage and not want divorce. I'm somawhat good looking, funny, smart, & love him despite all his many flaws, etc. and I still consider the fact that he is still living in our house and hasn't moved out when he could have to be some proof of the fact that he has some ambivalence yet about diving fully into a relationship with the OW and/or leaving me.

Actually, I don't think I would be bothered at all or at least too much if I were a "default" relationship if H broke up with OW if he realizes she is not the perfect woman he thinks she is now. I believe if he spent half the time he does on our relationship that he does with her, something like 40 hours a week!, we would probably have a fairly successful relationship with counseling of course! and no OW in the picture! Am I way too much of an optimist?

But truthfully, I do know and hate to admit that he may not break up with the OW so I know I have to be prepared for that. And thanks for the warning that he may be playing me when we are getting along so well. You don't think it is that I am happier now that my depression is gone, but that he is just playing me? That is kind of sad and scary at the same time! Karen43

[karen43]

Quick question! I should have thought to ask this before but didn't. If anyone has time to answer this today I'd appreciate it! When H gets home from his trip tonight what should be my attitude when I greet him? I mean you know typically I would be happy & friendly to see him after 2 days, but I'm sure that is not appropriate considering the circumstances of him being with the OW all weekend. So how do I act?

I am going with my D8 to the theatre from 3pm to 6pm although knowing how rude my H is, he will probably get home after 6pm and miss almost the entire weekend with his kids. (The one positive to that is I am keeping a log of all this kind of stuff so that will look just great to the judge won't it???). Thanks for your help!!! Karen43

[chocolateeyes]

Civil.

[karen43]

Civil was how I acted I think. (He did get home about 6pm or so.) I was surprised when I saw him, I didn't have any problem not acting as happy & friendly as usual. I am feeling fed up & disgusted with H at the moment. Besides hurting me, H had promised to take my D8 to a play last weekend and then didn't in order to go to a party with OW but promised to take her this weekend. Then of course this weekend he left town with OW and didn't take D8 again and this was the last weekend. I did take her, but I still think it was crappy of him. He never would have done that before the OW.

Then I saw H's car tonight. He must have spent hours cleaning it before their trip. Besides taking out the loads full of clothing, he emptied all the fast food bags, trash, and misc. junk he had in there, and even vacummed it! I said fine, if you want to date someone you have to pretend to be someone else with go right ahead! and I didn't say anything anymore. (But really I don't see how a long-term relationship is going to last where you have to pretend to be someone you're not.) But I'm so fed up with him right now, I wonder if he will wind up with nobody in a few months!!! I am glad my rehearsals for the play start tomorrow so I will not be seeing him much, if at all, during the week esp. which at the moment is just fine with me! Karen43

[chocolateeyes]

Karen,

I think it's interesting that you chose to challenge him on this:

Then I saw H's car tonight. He must have spent hours cleaning it before their trip. Besides taking out the loads full of clothing, he emptied all the fast food bags, trash, and misc. junk he had in there, and even vacummed it! I said fine, if you want to date someone you have to pretend to be someone else with go right ahead!

... but not this:

Besides hurting me, H had promised to take my D8 to a play last weekend and then didn't in order to go to a party with OW but promised to take her this weekend. Then of course this weekend he left town with OW and didn't take D8 again and this was the last weekend. I did take her, but I still think it was crappy of him. He never would have done that before the OW.

I think you should point things like this out to him, as simple "truth darts." "H, do you see how incredibly destructive your affair is to our family? Your daughter has been waiting for her daddy to take her to do ______ for the past two weekends."

And then just shake your head at him, disgustedly, and leave the room.

He should NOT get free passes on that crap!

Choc.

[karen43]

Choc, you are right. I darted H with your truth dart about not taking D8 to the play and left the room. I doubt that it will accomplish anything though as I think H is in that fog where he only cares about himself and OW. He honestly was always a very good dad, actually an excellent dad, before the OW and doing that to D8 was a shocker to me and probably to D8 as well! I noticed she is not quite as much a Daddy's girl anymore when we go out, now she is acting like just as much a Mommy's girl too. I guess she realizes she can't count on her Dad anymore which is sad & he's gone so much of the time with OW. I wonder if H notices that (I actually doubt it; he is probably thinking about the OW).

I have another question for anyone that has time to answer! When I get home from rehearsals every night: H will be most likely on his porch where he likes to work & text OW. I get home right there so basically could walk past him and ignore him every night which seems kind of rude, or I could give him a few minutes greeting and tell him about the night (he is friends with most of the people in the play too), or I could just mix it up and just drop by on the porch occasionally when I've had a really great night or something and just drop by a few times a week? I'm trying to be very DB concious and everything, I know you're not supposed to pursue but you are supposed to be friendly, but I still can't figure out which option would be best according to that. Any help is appreciated! Karen43

[GoingForward]

Karen,

I'm not familiar with your entire sitch as this thread is the only one (of yours) that I have read. I don't really have any advice to give, and all I can honestly say is I'm shocked. I can't, for the life of me, understand why your H is still living in your house with you. He is being allowed to remain there while actively continuing his R with the OW??? Right in front of you, no less!

I am very sorry, Karen, but this is so unbelievable and it just angers me to no end! Of course you and H get along 99% of the time - Your H gets to have the best of both worlds! What's the man got to complain about?!! He gets to keep his security blanket (living at home with you and the kids) while blatantly continuing an A with another woman! Why does he do this? Because he's allowed to!

Again, I am sorry. I'm just so mad for you !

I can totally understand that you love your H, and that you certainly don't want to drive him away. But what about you, Karen? Do you love and have any self-respect for yourself?

That reminds me - you said before, "...Remember that I am just a SAHM and he is a lawyer."

What does that mean??? That you are less of a person, that your wants, needs, opinions don't matter??? That YOU don't matter??!!!

I am a SAHM, too, but I'll be damned if I ever let my H or anyone else ever make me feel like I don't have a say in anything. I may not earn a huge income like my H, but I do just as much as he does, if not more in some ways. Yes, he goes out and works his butt off to provide for his family, but I work just as hard to raise 3 boys while maintaining a household. I do not sit on my a$$ all day, everyday. There are always things that need to be done - cleaning, laundry, cooking, running errands, school projects, after school activities/sports,.....You know what I'm talking about!

YOU ARE WORTH A WHOLE LOT MORE AND DESERVE BETTER!!! Set those boundaries and STICK TO 'EM. Easier said than done, I know this, but you can do it, Karen. Put your foot down and quit enabling your H in continuing with his foolishness.

Whew...ok, I'm done. Sorry if this was harsh, but I had to let it out. 3 years ago, I don't think I would've been strong enough to say anything along these lines. Not just to others, but to myself as well.

Take care.