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Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 25yearsmlc] #1003088
04/06/07 06:09 PM
04/06/07 06:09 PM
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imLIN Offline
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Tam...you seem to be thinking a bit more clearer in this email...hold on to that...when you feel you are beginning to shake reread what you wrote...you lists of things going for you and positives in your situation are much more then I could have written in the first 17 months of my S...see, I knew if you focused you could see it...

I do agree that with 25yrsMLC that children do give us a reason to go on and get up each day...but I must say that times seeing the hurt in them was horrible for me...to have your son tell you that he just pretends not to have a dad so it doesn't hurt so much is heart breaking...I carried my own pain in this and shared that of my childrens...in many ways it would have been easier without children...although I don't know that I would have pulled myself together as I did...I was forced...I couldn't just lay down and die although many times that is what I wanted to do...

I think moving the office is a great idea for now...I would just tell H was I said before to say before....

Quote:
Also...I would move out of the office without a word as well..when he asks I would say..."Well, I decided it would be easier for me to work from home and whether we continue in business or not my office will work for me at home!"...that way you are not committing to being used as a business partner should the R/M come to end at some point down the road..


This makes you sound in control of your end of things...it makes you appear to make rational decisions...just deciding without asking him adds strength to you abilities to function on your own....

I know now you are probably fretting about "what if he realizes he doesn't need me anymore?"...Tam, he doesn't want an emotionally dependant person hanging on to him...obviously his OW isn't or he wouldn't have been able to go visit his parents, he would be able to stay late at the office...see what I am getting at...when he pulls away from you your automatic response (and most of us here did this as well)is to start grasping at anything to hold on to them...when really what we need to do is start our OWN life...this speaks volumes to them...maybe not initially...but eventually...and if there is a glimmer of hope that things are able to be worked out this is a VITAL move to make...show him you can stand up to him, be on your own, take care of yourself, and have a life...

I liked your plan to go out with friends...dancing and drinking...not sure that would be a good idea...especially with the meds...and being in a situation of other men dancing would not be wise when feeling so vulnerable either...I would recommend dinner and movie...have friends over to play cards or watch a video at home...have friends over for dinner...go bowling...arrange a spa day...get massages, manicures, pedicures...whatever you all feel like...I had candle parties and Pampered Chef parties because no one would ask where the H was because those are typically women's nights...so plan something so you won't have to explain anything more then he is working late...or he is staying away because I am enjoying my women friends tonight...there are many things you can do with friends that won't expose you to OM...and won't involve social drinking...which with your meds and emotions would not be a good mix...

YOU CAN DO THIS...I KNOW YOU CAN...keep up the positive thoughts...keep yourself focused...and do for you...

I want to share something with you...

Love your neighbor as yourself....if you don't love yourself you really can't love anyone else...it all starts and ends with YOU...

Take care today...Lin


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Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 2940831] #1003127
04/06/07 06:22 PM
04/06/07 06:22 PM
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Tam

Thank you...I'm still weak, but getting better.

Lin - 100% right...you could be my twin...lol

HS - great insight from your father

J - correct on meds


Okay...good plans Tam...but see the therapist for coping skills
and control issues. If I could get my strength back right now
I would give them to you. It would be easier though, if you
were in my office...to actually see you in person.

Why not spend Easter with your family?

I am concerned about your Xanax popping...they aren't mints.

Reread what Lin said over and over...you need to start helping
yourself - stop using crutches.

You will make it, my friend, but time is ticking...luv ya.

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 12102006] #1003367
04/06/07 08:05 PM
04/06/07 08:05 PM
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2940831 Offline OP
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Thanks, everyone. I was having another (more minor this time) meltdown a while ago and read your posts and regained composure. Thank you.

Today is a busy day, so don't have much time to post right now, but just wanted to thank you.

Saw H today briefly and talked to him on the phone a few times regarding business issues. Nice, pleasant conversations.

Part of my minor meltdown today was regarding work issues - I am so incredibly far behind and am just getting overwhelmed - overdrawing our bank accounts (I NEVER do that), bills being late, files not copied and filed, items STILL not over to the mortgage broker for refinances and not knowing if they're going to have enough time to get the refinances done in time now, etc., etc. I am really stressed out about it. I don't think if I worked 24 hours for two weeks I would be caught up.

So, I started to get overwhelmed about H and the work stuff and just took a few deep breaths (plus a Xanax - sorry, needed right now) and am just tackling one thing at a time. I can only do what I can do. I did ask H to run a few errands for me today, so that helped. He said he was "happy to do it," which was nice.

The main "problem" I'm having now is that I've gotten so far behind on my work that I NEED TO WORK so much to work towards getting caught up - I simply don't have time to GAL right now with friends, etc. I guess I just need to work towards doing something for ME at night before bed or something. However, I'm alone too much right now, and that is part of my problem... I really need to get back to the gym around other people there, get out shopping every once in a while, would love to go visit my parents (they live about a 3 hour drive away) but am afraid they will "see right through me" or that I might break down in front of them, so don't think that's wise quite yet, get together with some friends, etc. I still have plans to do the weekly girls' night on Wednesdays but have not sent out the e-mail yet to everyone for the first night - need to do that.

And while the meds seem to be helping a bit, they are making me so incredibly tired all the time. It's the Xanax mainly. So I hope in a few weeks, when the Wellbutrin is supposed to hopefully fully "kick in" that will help to even out my moods some so that I won't need to take the meltdown drug. Believe me, it has helped me a lot the past few weeks... I know it's not a "long-term" thing, and I'm not trying to make excuses, but remember that H didn't tell me until the first of March that he didn't want to be married anymore. Before then, the idea was always that we were going to give it another shot. So I've had a HUGE mindset change and emotional setback since then. It's like starting over, but much worse this time. So bear with me. I'm not even close to feeling as stable as I did before we went on our first trip... AND I know I may only have until the end of May or so (if things haven't been resolved somehow before then) to do my very best to learn the lessons I need to learn, change myself for ME, find the hope within ME, believe that "It's Never Too Late for a Miracle," live deliberately for what I want - I simply don't have a choice, and I don't have a lot of time...

H does seem a bit "softer" since I've gotten back. I look at that as a small baby step...

Okay. Gotta run for now but just wanted to thank you again and get you up to speed. Thanks for kicking my butt... \:\)

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 25yearsmlc] #1003511
04/06/07 11:21 PM
04/06/07 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


HS, I have to respond to what appears to be medical advice you are giving.

First, it's all well and good to suggest she get a second opinion, (psychologists are not medical doctors even if they have the title "Doctor"-that means they are Ph.D's in psychology but you'd need a psychiatrist MD for a good discussion about the pharmacological process and the time for the meds to take effect. Most anti-depressants say that it takes 4-6 weeks for full effect). For you to tell her to stop taking her meds is irresponsible, and stems from a tragic event in your family, that MAY have been due to substandard care, also known as human error. Like you said, you are not an MD. I take issue with your mind reading of the doctor, who you accuse of not having "her best interest in mind..."?? Doctors are human and make mistakes, but please, don't attribute their mistakes to some nefarious motive. There is no conspiracy. And patients have duties to read the warnings as well. As a med malpractice attorney, and the wife of a physician, your post clearly bothered me. It obviously pushed a button-lights flashing, etc. So I apologize if my tone is harsh, but I really object to your "instructing" and implying that she is weak, b/c you did it all without drugs. You have kids. Great, me too. IMO, FWIW, It is EASIER to me to function with kids, than without. Harder to spiral and obsess when little ones are hungry.

As to your family's incident, I'm sorry it happened. But you don't know that the doctor even needed to read the warning, given that he may prescribe this medication often and has actually read something about it before prescribing, nor that he "failed" to read the warning at all. Maybe HE KNEW about the warning AND weighed the benefits vs. risks and made the best choice under circumstances that cannot have been optimal in the first place b/c your relative was already in the hospital with a serious condition. ( Like choosing which chemotherapy to give my brother in law -3 experts at Johns Hopkins said one thing, 2 at Stanford said another. Whoever is "wrong" isn't making a "stupid" choice, just a trial and error "wait and see if this helps" attempt to heal a serious condition.) Bad outcomes or unexpected bad events, do NOT necessarily = malpractice, let alone "stupid" professionals. Many people have this misconception. Do you know exactly her weight, liver or kidney metabolic functioning level - b/c diff meds metabolize differently and through various systems in our bodies, or what exact medicine and dosage she is taking? I sure don't. Last but not least, doctors are humans and make mistakes. They work a lot. My H's internship year he worked every day for 342 days in a row, with an average of 7 hours "off", which includes sleeping....Yep, 17 hour days for a year. THEN he did his residency... Don't make them out to be stupid or evil, not having the best interest of the patient in mind. Sorry your relative got sicker. But don't slime the whole profession for that. IF you are sure it was malpractice, hire a lawyer and sue.
j-



I think you should maybe go back and reread my posts. I did not tell 2940 to just stop taking her meds. I advised a second opinion and to do some research on them. I did go back and correct myself on the psychologist vs psychiatrist post. I know what a PhD is. And if you care to do a search there are many programs right now where psychologists are able to prescribe medications as well. I know that psychologists are not MDs which is causing controversary over the programs.

I never said that ALL doctors were stupid and irresponsible. If I had I would not be advising a second opinion, instead I would advised a naturalist. I know doctors are humans. When did I say there was a conspiracy? Do not put words into my mouth.

You do not know the details of what happened with my father. You do not know what legal steps we have taken either, I only included what I needed to to make 2940 aware of things that can happen. If you are curious to know my father was not only given a medication he should not have been when there were ALTERNATIVES he was also overdosed which causedother doctors in the same hosptial to raise A LOT of eyebrows and there was bloodwork done which was not properly analyzed to see what was really wrong. You have no idea the pain this situation has caused my family because there are many more details that I will not share.

No I still think her doctor does not have her best interest in mind because by now she should have been referred to a psychiatrist. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I know that due to HMOs many times people are not referred in a timely manner. That is why I voiced my concern. I only mentioned going through it without meds, so she knows it is possible to find strength within yourself, it was not to be caddy and it was not to suggest she just stops cold turkey either.

I am aware of that different people have different metabolic rates depending on family/individual histories and organ function. I am also aware that drugs carry specific toxicity levels and every drug regardless of how "safe" are in fact not. Every chemical introduced into the body has a lethal dose that varies from person to person and will react differently when in the presence of other drugs. As drugs are metabolized free radicals are released into the system which can also cause damage. The drugs can cause distruptions in a body's natural circadian rhythm, which could be what 2940 is suffering from with the disruption in her sleep patterns. Not all side effects are even listed in the drug information, only the side effects from the test group are included. Since the test group does not include every single person on earth doctors still do not know 100% for sure how every drug and every drug combination will effect every person. I am aware it is also the patient's responsibility but there are circumstances where the patient does not get a chance to do the research or is so emotionally distraught they just can't.

Your right I am not an MD, not now, but I have had my share of medical/toxicology/biochemistry classes so that in a few years I will be a practicing medical scientist. I never said the advice I was giving was medical either so DO NOT assume.

I do not want to argue with anyone on 2940 thread, The only reason I posted what I did is because I am worried about her and concerned that she is ok.



Last edited by HeartScared; 04/06/07 11:30 PM.
Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 2940831] #1003528
04/06/07 11:42 PM
04/06/07 11:42 PM
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Tam

If you are that far behind in work, then focus 100% on it. If
deadlines aren't being met because you don't keep up...that's
YOUR choice in doing so...YOU are choosing to drag your business
down...why? Because someone doesn't love you like he did in the
beginning of your marriage? How utterly stupid is that.

IMO, you are expecting him to rescue you...he won't. By not
keeping up your end, it shows him how helpless you are, that
you can't segregate work from the personal issues...that equals
weakness...another sign that he abhors.

You need to stop this "woe is me" pity party and get cracking
on the work...or you'll both lose.

Excuses....he started the A in Nov. 2006, he had already one
foot out the door thinking of leaving you. Don't kid yourself
Tam, or me...what does he have to do - spell it out? Do you
see how dysfunctional your rational thinking is?

Tam, I care enough to help you, while out ill...but you should
have been over these anxiety attacks long ago. Do I think you
should be on meds...no...you need to face your psychological
problems that you are running from...not hide them with drug
inducing calmness...until you do, you will constantly need
something to prop you up.

You have everything at your disposal...now start using it and
stop, stop, stop these pity parties...my gosh woman, have some
dignity, pride in yourself. You're acting like a child...face
the music of lovingly detaching from him or keep neglecting the
business, not showing up, crying, spying, melting down, not
paying bills and lose him for good...Your choice. Focus on the
job - like he does....

If you want to wallow in misery...I choose not to help you...but
if you want help in changing yourself, I will help. Let me
know...

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: HeartScared] #1003544
04/06/07 11:54 PM
04/06/07 11:54 PM
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HS

Don't take it personal...I'm sure J didn't mean anything harsh
to offend you...ladies, we need to focus on Tam...she has a lot
of personal issues...

I agree Tam should not rely on pills....she shows too much enthu-
siasm in mentioning Xanax popping...a red flag....

HS, you made valid points... \:\)

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: 12102006] #1003582
04/07/07 12:38 AM
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Thanks 1210,

I guess, I just did include enough in my original post. Your right we do need to focus on Tam.

I have found a few things about Xanax online that need to be mentioned although I know Lin has already posted information.

Xanax can be taked up to three times a day, but the dosages need to be spread out, in fact if a dosage is missed you are not supposed to double dose. http://www.drugs.com/xanax.html

Tam, when you take one, and do not feel the affects then proceed with the next, that is dangerous, you need to put about 8 hours between dosages not just one hour. I will post some links for you shortly.

Last edited by HeartScared; 04/07/07 12:42 AM.
Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: HeartScared] #1003662
04/07/07 02:13 AM
04/07/07 02:13 AM
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Where can I get more information?
Your pharmacist has additional information about Xanax written for health professionals that you may read.

At this point I think she has clarified that her Dr. has said it is okay to take a second dose if the first doesn't work...I was concerned when she was saying she took a third on a few occassions....I think the best thing is to read all the information that you can get from the pharmacist even though it is for health porfessionals and then discuss specific points with your doctor...

Tam...I do hope you are getting a handle on what you need to do...it sounds daunting I know...but once you jump in and commit yourself to becoming the strong woman you are you will begin to feel much better...it has a snowball effect...much like the depression tumbles you down...the positive attitude can start to bring you up...this is really what you need for yourself...

I know we have been a bit rough on you...but with very good reason...we can't help you unless you are willing and ready to help yourself!!!

You can do it...I have faith in you...because if you go back and read my stories you will see that I faced some pretty huge obstacles...but I did it...and in many ways we are alike...I have that very sensitive side...will give the shirt off of my back to someone in need...just ask H as he is wearing a few of my shirts now!

Take care,

Lin


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Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: imLIN] #1003825
04/07/07 03:51 AM
04/07/07 03:51 AM
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Tam...just wanted you to know this weekend is going to be a busy one for me...I do hope you can spend time with your family...I understand about H's grandmother but I do think your mental state should be first priority...you can't be responsible for the world...and in all honesty, if your like me, you really place more on others feelings then they often place themselves...if H is there and all the other family I am sure there wouldn't be a big let down to GM...I understand you care...but you can't keep doing this to yourself either...after these events you are wiped out...your work suffers, you suffer...and I just don't see that it is worth it...plus if you faulter somehow at one of these functions it could have some really bad reprocussions...

My son in getting baptized tomorrow....we are so proud of him...we have a divine spiritual feast ahead for the next several days so the only time I might get to peek in here is very early or very late in the day...

Take care...YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Lin


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Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: imLIN] #1003860
04/07/07 04:56 AM
04/07/07 04:56 AM
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Hi Lin,

I hope this week-end is very special for your son and you and your family. Enjoy such a special occasion.

Tam,

Remember I WILL MAKE IT!!!!! I'm telling you this little saying helps tremdously. Because you will one way or another. When you are in a dark valley it is hard to see the top of the Mountain but it is there...I was like you I couldn't function. I had friends tell me that I couldn't go this way it was going to ruin my health. It is going to make my self sick. Once I kinda let go of some of the negativity I started to gain back some control. I could not dwell on OW and H because it will consume you and everything you do. Your work doesn't get done you feel like you are spiraling down that Black Tunnel and can't get a hold of the top and pull yourself up.

I found out about A in October it had started the end of Aug. I thought I would not make it thru this one. But after reading post on this site and different threads you get great advice but you have to take control of YOU. WE can't do that for you. YOU HAVE TO DO THAT no one can do it for you. There is no other way.

My H saw me like that. It didn't help my cause because he saw me weak and her strong. I have had to hear how admirable she is because she has picked her self up. (Not really her parents have bailed her out) but he won't except that because she told him how hard she had worked. I took it that everything that I do was nothing so it drove me farther in the black tunnel. She is tall and wild and no morals so it made me go farther in the black hole. THEN I finally woke up and said enough.....You guys are giving great advice take it and put it to use. It has been like a small cloud lifted. It hasn't taken the whole dark cloud away but it is a start and I know you can do it too. You have to, no one can do it for you. YOU have to make the decision I am going to not obsess about H starting with just a day. Tam you have the choice to become dependent on drugs or make YOU haveto make the first step and stop being negative today and become more positive. I have read and read the steps that I told you about. I don't use all of them at once but I go back and see if there is something that would help me be strong and become positive. I WILL MAKE IT.

I have finally come to the conclusion that I have to move ahead even if I fall back once in a while I am making progress. It mostly has been from reading all these threads and postings.

You are making steps. Keep thinking Hey IMLIN had made it, 1210 is making it, I am not a lone and we are all so alike it is scary because you think you are the only one in the world there are other people just like us experiencing this.

Well it is late. I am here for you... I am in a position about EAster where I finally asked if he had plans. Both of the boys are gone. HIs family always have big family dinners but I think he just wants to stay away from them. It doesn't matter to me. he said he thought he would come down. We will see. I was also going to tell you I am an only child and I haven't told my parents much at all. MY dad has Anxiety attacks so I am like you I don't want to upset them till I have to. My mom is a worry person. Mind you I am 48 years old and she still worries way to much. I can relate how you don't want to tell them. It is so hard.

Ok I have written my book again. Tam YOU WILL MAKE IT......

Hug for you. I hope I haven't said to much but I care for you. Please take care of yourself

I know how hard it is to be by yourself at night. My boys are gone so I am here by myself. It has been really hard because we have always had alot of people around now noone. I hated nights but I would be so tired I would sleep for a few hrs and wake up. I still don't sleep all the way thru. but I feel like I am getting in more control. You have to take control of your life and business. I had get a hold of our business because I felt in going into the black tunnel with me. Like you I have a lot of people depending on me with this business and my job. You have to get control I am here for you to lean on. Every time I thought I needed someone to lean on, I would say ok God you got to lift my shoulders up. I am not super religious but Tam it does help.

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