My Story P6: The rise of the Eagle 2.0

[Elbereth]

Hi Eagle,

I am still catching up on all that has happened with my friends on here. But I do think that what Gerda suggested above is worth contemplating. I remember reading some of the recon stories (May22, Wayfarer) and they are hard but possible. It sounds like coming back together can be just as confusing as the MLC was. Just keep your open mind and heart and watch for the green signs while still protecting your heart. If he's serious, he will be patient and continue to move towards you. You've learned a lot. Hopefully, he has too. You will be okay either way. Hugs to you!

El

[Eagle3]

Hello dear DB people,

Almost 3 months since my last post on my thread. Huh, has it been that long???

Are there reasons for that? Yes indeed, and I would like to share them with you in the first place.

Since the end of December, G and I have been seeing each other on a very regular basis as you know. (so now for about 4 months in total and this on a weekly basis together during the weekends)

I am never going to forget what I read from a woman who also posted a lot here and had developed her own website but then sadly passed away. (Not allowed to mention names I thought but you all know who I am talking about)

"Enjoy the time they threat you as a princess and that they want to date if you want of course."
But I also always knew thanks to her that this was not the end of his MLC.

So I deliberately did not write here as long as everything was going really well and we were rebuilding, I knew there was going to be a period where he still had to wrestle with some demons and come to terms with them.
In other words, fully face the consequences of his actions over the past few years, because after all, he still hadn't done that. (Yes, I reveived many many sorry's and he continuously tried to make up for it but I knew it missed something)

Also what DnJ said:

Like before, there is little one do can speed this up. An LBS trying to get answers or hurry things along will certainly delay/derail the MLCer. Consider it took about two years from trigger to BD. It takes similar from awakening to acceptance. And then a settling in period to final acceptance, where the MLCer truly closes the door to their crisis.

This moment has actually been going on since about two weeks.

But first things first, I will give you an overview of how the last 4 months went.
Since the beginning that we started seeing each other again on a regular basis, something beautiful has actually started to grow again between us. Slightly similar to when we just met but oh so much better as both he and I have changed immensely. Where he used to be the alpha and I used to rather follow and thus actually stood a bit in his shadow, this is now totally out of the question. We now treat each other as equals, which is an incredible step forward.
He is also much more attentive to what I want, he no longer puts his needs first, I have seen a very beautiful person the last few months. With struggles, of course, but one with a very good heart, who was constantly there for me and the children.

Read well though, we are still not in an official relationship today. I am not ready for that, see also above since I knew there would be a fallback, he not ready because there are things he has not yet cleared up with himself.

And I have been proven right...
Trigger. A few months ago, I shared with you that OW2 got pregnant unexpectedly, this at the age of 44. She could not have children, but got pregnant anyway.
She was understandably extremely happy that she was pregnant and decided to keep it, he totally the opposite. The relationship was already going very badly before this fact and of course they then broke up in very bad circumstances. She consciously chose to become a single mother, also lives in another country.

I have talked to G a lot about this over the past few months. I knew that EXH (MLC H) was indeed going to push this away completely and walk away from it, however, I also knew that G was never going to get this over his heart to mean nothing to that baby. The more G surfaced over the last few months, the more he talked about going to visit that baby when it was born. Today, there are only 2 people in his family who know about the existence of the baby, which are his father and myself. Both of us encouraged him to go and visit the little child. He also still had stuff from OW2 that he needed to return so that was the perfect time.

However, he put it off several times because he couldn't handle it and kept pushing it back until he found the strength, 3 weeks ago he visited them, this for 1 day.

I am keenly aware that this might be a factor that could push him in 2 directions, but it is something he had to face, otherwise he would remain stuck in his current pattern.

After his return, of course, he completey broke down again. Less open in his communication, more distant, crying, don't know how to handle things.
He did tell me a week later that this visit loosened up a lot, that he realises all the more what he did to all of us and that he can't completely ignore the little one as he had thought, that somehow he has to find a way to play a role but that he doesn't know how at all (other country so not so obvious). He is also incredibly afraid of other people's reactions, taking this news to our children and the rest of the family etc.,

How he feels about OW2? He hasn't really shared that with me yet. Logical given the relationship we've had for the last few months. Does he not want to hurt me, does he first want to be 100% sure himself how to handle everything, is he at the point where he will finally make final choices? (end of withdrawal, going into acceptance?)

The future will tell.

However, I do know what I want now. this became clear the past days, since his change in behavior again. I'm slightly afraid I will loose him again (strange feeling, haven't had this for a long time). I have felt very good with him in the last few months. I've had an incredibly nice time. If at all possible, I want to give it back a chance to rebuild something, even if it means accepting a child he has with another woman into our lives. I do love him and want him in my life, that's for sure.

Now I am letting go of him for a while. I feel he perceives it as pressure when I try to continue asking. So I consciously told him today that I am giving him space and time. He is away for a few days, all by himself so that means something.

If things turn out differently, will my heart break again? Presumably still a little bit, not completely as my heart is not yet fully open to him again, but I will get out of that too and become all the stronger.

Much love,

Eagle xxx

[job]

It takes a lot of time and patience to work towards reconciliation once again. I think that this part of the journey is the most difficult because we want them to "hurry up and get it together". It doesn't happen that way. He still has a lot of "stuff" to process. Give him plenty of space and time.

One thing to remember, he will be still testing you to see how you react to him and his behavior. Continue as you have been, i.e., as a friend. No pressure and there is a good possibility that he may keep some of the personality quirks that he had during the crisis. This particular stage could take up to 12/18 months for him to finally settle down in his new skin.

I created a thread many years ago when someone else was going through this stage. It is called TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection. Here is the link. It will help you better understand where he is at the moment.

TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection

Dig deeper for patience and just breathe! Treat him as a friend, listen to what he has to say, but do not point fingers if he slips back two steps. Above all else, whatever changes you have made, they must stay in place for this is a new relationship now.

[Elbereth]

Eagle…

Just dropping by to offer you my support. Wish I could offer you advice, but I don’t really have any but agree with what Job suggested. Hang in there and take time to breathe and support yourself.

Hugs,
El

[Eagle3]

Almost 8 weeks later, so a quick update on how things are today and what has happened over the past few weeks.

Since his first visit to the baby he has with EX-OW, G has been drawn back into his own world for a while, this at least in terms of thoughts/feelings. I clearly saw that he needed to process what was going on in his life and just continued to treat him as a friend. We did text pretty much daily, and every weekend he still came to visit as usual or we went for dinner, etc.

Meanwhile, G also bought a dog. He says this is because this way he can take care of someone again, and also has a reason now to get out of bed in the morning. The dog is really fantastic, she is sweet, affectionate and already incredibly hefty for her age. I can also really see that it gives G pleasure to have her in his life.

He is still on the same course. Quiet, friendly, helpful, this both towards the children and myself as it has been for several months now. Only his drinking behaviour is a bit more than it was again. In his mind, he wants to avoid drinking during the week, only the weekend but he recently told me honestly that he finds it difficult again to leave the booze in the evening during the week, this with the nice weather and the urge then being too strong not to have a drink anyway.

Last week, G went back abroad to visit his baby. He hesitantly, yet honestly told me this in advance. Since he went for a few days now, I was honest with him about my feelings as it didn't feel good when he told me about it. He then asked to talk about it and so we did. It was a relieve to finally be able to talk after all these weeks. We both were ready for it.

I asked him if he went purely for the little one or also for her. That the reason why I asked is the fact that I still have feelings towards him, this of course because we have spent again a lot of time together these past months and even were very close for weeks in a row. That I can do this today because we are both not in a relationship, but also because it just feels right. He could only agree with me on those facts.

He then told me calm and sereen that he went purely to see his child, that he has decided to try to build a certain bond with him, that our children are a priority now, but that this child also deserves his love which, of course, I can only encourage. He also said that he has come to realize even more how much he has hurt everyone around him and that he is terrified to do this again. That he will never put himself first again, but that he now puts all of us, the people who love him deeply, in first position now and that he will be there for us.

He will also tell the children about the existence of the baby in a few weeks, after our holiday and told me that this will be the most difficult thing he has ever done in his life. He is terrified to lose them again.

He also said he doesn't want a relationship anymore because he's terrified that he will hurt someone again. He doesn't trust himself today.

He did say he loves me very much, even more than he used to and that he really wants me in his life, but that he can't give me what I want, and that I truly deserve somebody who is "normal" and threats me the way I should properly be threated. He simply said that he can't be physical with somebody anymore. (very the opposite of what it was up to two months ago)
He has lost complete interest on this particular side.
He asked me if we simply could continue the way we are currently doing, and this being there for each other as friends and meet each other on a weekly basis as this means a lot to him.
I told him that for me the physical part is something I really miss as I didn't want to lie to him. He said that this was of course very normal as I am in the most beautiful part of my life and that I should seek what I need and that I should not wait for him in that matter.

I simply want to share all of this here as this is quite confusing now. I'm healed enough to go forward with my life but I also still love him deeply. Giving me a lot of stuff to think about now...

Next saturday i'm leaving for a holiday to Greece with the children. I go 10 days, G 10 days, and the children 14 days, meaning I will be alone with them for a few days, then G comes over, we spent a few days all together and the he will be alone with them for a few days. We have decided this a few months ago and children thought it was a great idea. Looking forward to that as well.

If anybody could give me some advice if there is a meaning for all the above, feel free to share!

Is this the phase you've been speaking about being extreme confusing, just as the MLC was?

xxx
E

[Boat14]

Sounds like the ILYBINILWY speech. He’s being very honest with you so I would take him at his word. If you want to be friends with him that is totally up to you. If you choose friendship then it should be unconditional knowing that eventually he will likely date someone else.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Eagle

As the MLCer slowly exits the running/replay stage and enters into depression, they can be drawn back and forth for a while. There are three stages post replay as the MLCer progresses towards acceptance - Depression, Withdrawal, and Acceptance.

Like all stages along the journey of a MLCer or LBS, stages are nebulous with no sharply defined delineation. Stages are not strictly linear, and a person can, and usually is, within more than one stage at a time since different facets of their journey are at different points of progress.

An LBS can be in depression of certain facets while angry of others and bargaining over others. However, one will experience an internal shift as the bulk of their feelings and processing has moved into the next stage.

This is likewise for an MLCer’s progress. They do spend a great deal of time consumed within replay, and moving into depression (and into withdrawal) is a huge step. They must come face to face with not only their pain that promoted their crisis, yet also the damages done.

Here is a link to some info of the MLC stages. The original poster of this particular laying out the stages included timelines with the stages, which in later writtimgs she removed as the estimates were not accurate. An MLCer will take as long as they need for each and every stage of their journey. No one can speed it up for them. At best an LBS’ efforts would be neutral, although the usual outcome is delaying the MLCer’s progress, or even stalling it.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484776&page=1

Since his first visit to the baby he has with EX-OW, G has been drawn back into his own world for a while, this at least in terms of thoughts/feelings. I clearly saw that he needed to process what was going on in his life and just continued to treat him as a friend.

G has to come face to face with much. There will be back and forth as he progresses forward.

G also bought a dog. He says this is because this way he can take care of someone again, and also has a reason now to get out of bed in the morning. The dog is really fantastic, she is sweet, affectionate and already incredibly hefty for her age. I can also really see that it gives G pleasure to have her in his life.

This is a good sign on many levels. G realizes he needed, and crafted, a reason to get out of bed in the morning (depression). G willingly and purposefully took on responsibility of the dog. G is reaching out with his feelings, showing love and compassion. First for a dog which was never hurt by him, then on to the folks whom he did hurt. Realize, G wants to fix this mess, he just doesn’t how yet. Be very very patient during all this.

Last week, G went back abroad to visit his baby. He hesitantly, yet honestly told me this in advance. Since he went for a few days now, I was honest with him about my feelings as it didn't feel good when he told me about it. He then asked to talk about it and so we did. It was a relieve to finally be able to talk after all these weeks. We both were ready for it.

Stay patient. Thank him for being honest. G is working to get a handle on his own emotions and still cannot well handle other’s feelings just yet. Unfortunately you do have to do the lion’s share of the work here, leading by example. There is coming a time when those answers you seek can be sought, and those discussions you want to have can occur.

He will also tell the children about the existence of the baby in a few weeks, after our holiday and told me that this will be the most difficult thing he has ever done in his life. He is terrified to lose them again.

He also said he doesn't want a relationship anymore because he's terrified that he will hurt someone again. He doesn't trust himself today.

Again, positive progress for G.

Yes, he would be terrified of the reaction of the kids. This is an obstacle he needs to overcome. He needs to find his inner strength and conviction to face this, take whatever backlash, then work to make amends.

I believe G is realizing the scope of the damage he inflicted. And the near monumental task of rebuilding and repairing. He needs to own this. To hit rock bottom and truly change - for himself. To change because he wants to.

He then told me calm and sereen that he went purely to see his child, that he has decided to try to build a certain bond with him, that our children are a priority now, but that this child also deserves his love which, of course, I can only encourage.

Bless you Eagle. Yes, this innocent soul deserves their father in their life.

It will take some work and effort, however love does not exhaust. The more one gives, the more it grows and replenishes. S18, S15, and S15 can hold Dad in their hearts and receive his love, while G is in the other child’s life too.

He did say he loves me very much, even more than he used to and that he really wants me in his life, but that he can't give me what I want, and that I truly deserve somebody who is "normal" and threats me the way I should properly be threated. He simply said that he can't be physical with somebody anymore. (very the opposite of what it was up to two months ago)
He has lost complete interest on this particular side.

G is depressed. He feels like a failure. Nothing turned out like he imagined it would. This is the normal forward progress for the lucky few MLCers. Lots of crisis folks never find their exit of replay, and simply deny and run from their ceaseless torment.

Remember, his journey is still emotionally driven. Feelings are fleeting, are temporary, although they feel permanent. G’s prognosticating of his future is based upon how he currently feels. He will progress through this, in time. He will feel differently, in time.

Above all else, whatever changes you have made, they must stay in place for this is a new relationship now.

Absolutely!

It is clear there is a relationship growing between G and you. Be that growing into friends, or evolving into more, it is critical that you are you. The improvements made, the newer version of Eagle, you did for you. And she, the newer you, shines.

Think lighthouse. G sees and is attracted. Keep living and let him catch up.


Have a wonderful vacation Eagle.

D

[bttrfly]

Hi Eagle,
I'm largely silent here these days, but I have to weigh in here since much of this discussion centers on G, his feelings, his actions, etc.

Let's flip this and focus on the real jewel in the crown: YOU.

It's so easy to be drawn into the chaos that surrounds someone in a crisis, mid-life or otherwise, losing sight of ourselves, what we want, what's important to us, in the process.

We cannot fix anyone else.

We cannot heal anyone else.

Most importantly, we need to be aware of the fact that weak people often use the compassion and kindness of others as a crutch.

Practice fierce compassion, but do not lose sight of your own wants, needs, desires, goals, and especially keep those boundaries firm. Sounds like they're wavering, since the talk is a whole lotta G not so much Eagle.


Take him out of the equation.

What's new with you?

What are your aspirations for the future?

How close are you to achieving your near-term goals?

What are your get a life activities separate from G or your children?

Have you read any good books lately? Seen any good movies?

Are you dating?

Are you trying any new hobbies?

[job]

Eagle,

You have received some very wise advice from DnJ and bttrfly. Please listen to them.

My personal opinion is that right now, he is being very honest with you on how he feels about life, where his head/heart are at and the fact that he wants to put his family before all else. Yes, he is terrified to tell his children about the other child. He is feeling insecure and actually he' afraid that they will judge him harshly for what he's done. It's understandable after all that has gone down during his journey.

I'm glad that he wants to remain friends, but you need to understand that being friends with him is going to require you to step back a bit and allow him to continue on w/his journey and not get caught up in his emotional drama. Yes, he's still out there and still a bit of a mess emotionally. He still has a ways to go and right now, just being a friend is all you can be to him. Keep your expectations very low, do not allow this man to draw you into his drama. As bttrfly mentioned, you can't fix him because you didn't break him. He has to do this on his own. I wouldn't offer any advice to him unless he asks for it. Listen closely for he will tell on himself and you will need to sift through what he says for answers.

Eagle, your xh has a ways to go in his crisis. Try to remember, you can't rush the process. It took him some time to go into crisis, therefore it will take some time for him to come out of it, if he is lucky. Some recover completely, others keep some of their new found quirks and others walk the earth in crisis forever.

Enjoy your trip to Greece! Watch out for pickpockets, but the country is beautiful. I do hope you can relax and just enjoy your time away. Try to keep the focus on you and your children and just let go, let God have your xh for a while.

[Eagle3]

Hello dear DB people,

End of summer, so time for an update.

First of all, I would like to thank you all once again for the information shared here.

After reading the updates in the threads, and certainly from sjohns6, I can only confirm how similar the path of both the MCL'er and the LBS is, and this applies to all the people who are effectively experiencing it.

Bttrfly, you are right, I am not giving enough information about how I am doing, hence I will start with that first.

The life I am living today (and certainly for the past 1.5 years) has changed a lot with how I used to live. I have effectively learnt from putting myself 1st. However, I am still there for the people I like (including EXH), and maybe sometimes too much than necessary, this actually goes smoother one period than the other, but this is mainly because it is in my character and also partly because I have accepted who I am and don't want to change because of that.

The difference, however, is that I used to rarely go on outings with girlfriends, go to the beautician, book trips for myself, etc. Everything was about EXH and the kids, but this is in the past now.

I have start a course which is now almost complete and I should normally get my degree by the end of the year. I have been hunted for some companies who would like me to join them, on much better terms and in management positions (like I had pre-MLC) and am currently checking out what suits me best because I feel like really throwing myself into another responsible position, and last but not least, I am also venturing into dating land. I have met a man with whom I finally feel some electricity again. Something that hasn't happened to me so far in the last 20 years (outside of EXH)

However, I know very well what I want today. These words from sjohn6 actually describe what I feel too and what I already described in my former thread:

I guess I still love the old W, but she doesn't really exist anymore. Part of me thinks that I need to be done with those feelings before I can move on, but another part of me wonders if I will just always feel that way a little and that I need to learn to move on without that being something that goes away.

Also this part has been my belief for a very long time (and even still there a bit now):

Outwardly I tried really hard to move on, but there is a small piece of me that always thought that you would come back after some time.

However, I see EXH on a very regular basis and since then became close friends. Friends with more feelings than normal friends should perhaps have, but this is obviously due to our past. However, I have reflected for myself to the fact that a relationship is not possible with him today.
That is precisely why I have accepted that I have to move on, this also in terms of allowing other men into my life and I am finally ready for that. I am not looking for a steady relationship right away yet, but I am looking for a certain connection with a man other than EXH. I also intend to be very honest about this with the men I date.
If however in the future there would be an opportunity with EXH to have a new relationship, I think I would be open to that as well, but this is only possible when he becomes a person whereby there can be a future, and this is currently not the case, and will maybe never be the case anymore. So hence I want to move forward.

Hopefully this reflects my situation a bit.

Meanwhile, our children are also aware that they have a 'half-brother'.

EXH wanted to put it off again but I told him this was no longer possible and that he should tell them, that this no longer could be postponed as I did not want to lie to them anymore why he still went to that other country, even though he normally don't have a reason to be there.

He then finally did so, this at my house, as he wanted my support. The children responded incredibly well and maturely. The eldest had a little more difficulties but because the twins took it upon themselves to talk openly to their father about how they felt about it, he also managed to connect easily. I am so incredibly proud of them. EXH too was in tears and told them how grateful he is to have me in his life, that I am the most beautiful person he knows and that he is very, lucky that I was always there to give them such a good raising/upbringing. He has even admitted that he never believed in open communication, that a child should not know what is going on, but that he now sees the result of my persistence to do so.

However, this does not alter the fact that today he is still very much struggling with himself, in fact it has become worse again. This is precisely why there is some distance between us again. He's not always honest anymore and it looks like he's fallen back into his MLC. Drinking is also very much present again as well as certain statements he makes. The main reason, of course, is his child in another country and I think it's also the mother, to whom he still feels a great deal of guilt, which I assume is greater than the guilt he feels towards me and the children.

I also strongly follow Job's advice, I have taken a step back and am purely his friend. However, when I see that he dares to be dishonest or turns certain situations to his will I say that friends don't treat each other like that. He then shies away and adjusts his behaviour.

So, this should be about it. Became a longer post than I had in mind. LOL

I will be back very soon to reply to all other threads as well. Now working a bit again...

Have a nice day xxx