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MikeP #2940069 12/02/22 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeP
Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me…

Hurt people, hurt people.


Mach, you are correct, lots of good information in Cylone’s thread. I think I’ll add it to the MLC welcome post, along with the lighthouse story which I only recently discovered was not linked there.

Last edited by DnJ; 12/02/22 02:24 PM.

Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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MikeP #2940070 12/02/22 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeP
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.

Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.

So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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Mach1 #2940073 12/02/22 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mach1
Hey Mike....

MLC or WAS ?

Doesn't really matter on your path for now....

Her confusion is a good sign of it though....

Most WAS ?

Well, the "WA" in that equation is Walk Away.....

She is still there ....albeit for who knows how long...


This was a good thread from a few years back.....maybe it can help some on your path right now....



Cyclone



I always thought that thread should be a "go to" read ...

In the beginning it was typical WAS behavior and she did leave when I told her to end it with om or leave. Second ultimatum was end it or divorce and she came back. Went through the whole withdrawal from the om episode. Since then it has seemed more like MLC. I know it doesn't really change anything except it could be a much longer, tougher road. I'll check out the link, thanks.


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
SteveLW #2940074 12/02/22 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
The mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS...I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. ...So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that.
I agree with this.

I have heard this many times:
"Women fall in love in the presence of a man, while men fall in love in the absence of a woman."
I believe it is true in general, but can also be true in the reverse.


One of the things I learned is to be present (full attention) and then be absent. One of the topics in The Art Of Seduction. There is a balance. That balance changes over time. Recalibrate as needed. Find your balance. Daily/Weekly.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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SteveLW #2940075 12/02/22 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by MikeP
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.

Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.

So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.

What little detaching and GALing I've managed to do has had some effect already. The problem is we spend so much time with d13's sports activities together, we don't have much spare time. That's a convenient excuse, but I am trying to do things on my own when I can. This kid of ours is always on the go. Her choice, trust me I would love to get my summer weekends back instead of being at softball tourneys every week. One day it will be over though and then I will miss it dearly. Bball for middle school and high, softball-travel and high school, track- middle and high school. She loves it and I never miss anything. I"ve never missed a single game or track meet, going on 8 years now. Point being, we are together a lot. Part of our marital problem was/is that all our focus is on the kids. Even with our sports schedule, W always felt we needed to focus doing things with the kids. We put more effort into our kids' lives than our own. She never could grasp that it's ok to have us time. That is something that will have to change if me ever start marriage #2.


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940076 12/02/22 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by MikeP
Steve, the weekly dinners was something we agreed on when she came back home under the premise that she wanted to work on things. I see what you are saying and they will probably end because d’s high school bball season started this week. We won’t have much free time for a few months. I also understand the crying issue but it just hit me. One second I was fine, then I wasn’t. In the first 33 years we were together I don’t think I ever cried in front of her. Trust me, I’m well aware that she’s probably still wanting to be with him. That’s why I have such a hard time with them working together. He probably sees her more than I do. I honestly don’t know that I will ever be ok with it. At some point it will have to be addressed. Accepting her seeing him every day and also the fact that I haven’t beat his azz yet makes me feel like a beta more than anything. She probably sees him more now than when the A was going on. If it’s actually not still going on.

Mike, the mistake I see most LBSs make is interacting too much with their WAS. I made the same mistake early on in my own situation. Then I hit on the power of "absence makes the heart grow fonder". As a WAS sees their LBS moving on with their life, going out and have a good time with other people (not member's of the opposite sex!), and generally enjoying life without them, sometimes the WAS is suddenly WANTING their spouse back. IT is a strange phenomenon where human-beings want what they think they cannot have. I think that is the reason affairs are so prevalent. At first it is "I am attracted to that person but I am taken and so are they so it can't happen". And that sense of wanting what you can't have means that they want it even more. Eventually want outweighs can't and the affair is consummated. Many times affairs only last a few times because once the person gets what they couldn't have, they don't want it anymore.

So you can use that to your advantage. Become scarce and suddenly the switch might flip in her that she is losing you and doesn't want that. Using that scares most LBSs though because they think that means it makes it easier for the WAS to walk away because the LBS has moved forward, become scarce, isn't available. That fear is rooted in what come intuitively. Remember, DBing is counter intuitive. Your instincts of what you should do i n these situations are usually wrong. That is why most LBSs come here already having done all the wrong things: begging, pleading, crying, making impossible promises, clinginess, constantly wanting to discuss the situation, becoming stepford husband or wife, etc.

What little detaching and GALing I've managed to do has had some effect already. The problem is we spend so much time with d13's sports activities together, we don't have much spare time. That's a convenient excuse, but I am trying to do things on my own when I can. This kid of ours is always on the go. Her choice, trust me I would love to get my summer weekends back instead of being at softball tourneys every week. One day it will be over though and then I will miss it dearly. Bball for middle school and high, softball-travel and high school, track- middle and high school. She loves it and I never miss anything. I"ve never missed a single game or track meet, going on 8 years now. Point being, we are together a lot. Part of our marital problem was/is that all our focus is on the kids. Even with our sports schedule, W always felt we needed to focus doing things with the kids. We put more effort into our kids' lives than our own. She never could grasp that it's ok to have us time. That is something that will have to change if me ever start marriage #2.


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940077 12/02/22 06:05 PM
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Sorry for the double post, my computer was acting up.


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D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940083 12/02/22 07:22 PM
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A couple of things I've been thinking about. Something I didn't think to mention about myself is I have a tendency to be negative and judgmental. My mom was and is the most judgmental/negative person I've ever known. I had a great teacher. Sometime before BD I had realized this about myself and have been working on it ever since. It's hard. When you grow up around that type of influence it becomes normal. I have made great strides in this area.

Something else I thought of concerning values. I value honesty and loyalty. I expect it from loved ones and friends. I give it to loved ones and friends. I always say I expect more from them because we (family and friends) love one another. If a coworker lies or throws me under the bus, I chalk it up as one more person to keep an eye on. If a friend does the same, I have a hard time forgiving them. I can and have forgiven friends, but it is hard for me. I have to know they are truly remorseful.


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940085 12/02/22 08:24 PM
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It is kind of crazy that in our 40s and 50s we learn that we have to address our childhood issues.

Black is not always right and white is not always right, but knowing when to apply either or being able to pick the right amount of grey is a great skill to learn in all areas.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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MikeP #2940086 12/02/22 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by R2C
One of the things I learned is to be present (full attention) and then be absent.
I like this a lot R2C. I'll keep this in mind in my own situation.

Originally Posted by MikeP
Something I didn't think to mention about myself is I have a tendency to be negative and judgmental. My mom was and is the most judgmental/negative person I've ever known.
I'm in the same boat with you. I know my negativity was a huge cause of my W slowly moving away from me over the years and it was a learned behavior from my mom. There was a point where I broke down and became angry with my mom for several days, blaming her for my failed marriage. The things I learned from her led to the mistakes I've made with my wife and kids, so I rationalized that she was the true cause of my problems. I've since learned that my unhappiness was what led to my negativity and judgmental attitude, not my mom. And the advice I've been getting here has helped me understand that I am in control of my own happiness. Focusing on myself, especially GAL, has helped tremendously with that. It has had a positive impact on my relationships with nearly everyone around me....except for my W (so far!) Keep at it man, we do not have to follow the models we were given. I'll keep following your threads. Best of luck!


M:39 W:39
T:22 M:18
S:20 D:19 D:4
BD:7/2022
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