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MikeP #2940055 12/01/22 10:56 PM
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have you read the MLC chapter in divorce remedy?


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"You know who you were before & during your marriage. Find out who you are now. What are your core values? What do you really want? Then, live it!"
bttrfly #2940057 12/02/22 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
have you read the MLC chapter in divorce remedy?

Yes. I’ve read some of the mlc threads on here as well


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940058 12/02/22 03:40 AM
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Mike,

You will have to make a decision about the weekly date night. Put lots of thoughts into things before changing directions.

If this is a 180 and something you want to do long term, I would keep doing them. Keeping everything light and exciting and not boring. No heavy talk. If she starts heavy talk you can always say "I would prefer to talk about that some other night when we are home" or similar.

If it is making the R worse or her attraction for you less, than maybe.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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bttrfly #2940059 12/02/22 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bttrfly
threads 16-19 are intense.
Found here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=38854


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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MikeP #2940060 12/02/22 04:21 AM
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If it's an MLC strap in for a long ride, maybe fur the rest of her life

If WAW, then you might be able to outlast it with good DBing.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
MikeP #2940062 12/02/22 11:59 AM
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Good Morning Mike

I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.

W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.

I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.

Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.

A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)

Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.

There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.

And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.

Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.

As I said, a bit of both maybe.

So what to do?

Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.

The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.

Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.

Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.

Have a great day Mike.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Mike,

You will have to make a decision about the weekly date night. Put lots of thoughts into things before changing directions.

If this is a 180 and something you want to do long term, I would keep doing them. Keeping everything light and exciting and not boring. No heavy talk. If she starts heavy talk you can always say "I would prefer to talk about that some other night when we are home" or similar.

If it is making the R worse or her attraction for you less, than maybe.

We don't talk about R. In the beginning we did because it was all new and I didn't know better, we almost stopped going for that reason. Now we just talk about what ever, watch whatever sport is on if we're interested, and generally keep it light.

Last edited by MikeP; 12/02/22 12:19 PM.

M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
DnJ #2940065 12/02/22 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Good Morning Mike

I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.

W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.

I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.

Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.

A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)

Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.

There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.

And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.

Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.

As I said, a bit of both maybe.

So what to do?

Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.

The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.

Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.

Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.

Have a great day Mike.

D

Thank you for the encouragement. It feels like a double whammy knowing she's so unhappy and still being at work with OM everyday. It almost feels inevitable that she will start it up with him again. As you have described above, she is so unhappy and wants the pain to end. She told me before that it was so much different (happier) when she was around him, so it stands to reason she will seek that out again. I've been doing a decent job of detaching, not great but better. It's kind of a fine line with that because I don't want to appear cold or distant like I used to do when I was unhappy about something. I think she is definitely a wallower and I know she is dealing with guilt on top of her other issues. Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me I still love her and don't want to see her suffering. Like everyone says, men are fixers and it goes against my nature to not try and "fix" her. I couldn't if I tried obviously. Funny you mentioned being faithful to the om. When she was living at her parents she would come over for visits and end up staying late. She was so tired and looked terrible, it was obviously taking a terrible toll on her body. Mutiple times I asked her to stay the night instead of driving home so tired, usually after she had fallen asleep. Told her to sleep on the sofa or I would. She wouldn't because he wouldn't like that. Crazy. Thanks again.


M:50 W:48
T:33 M:25
D23, S17, D13
BD:4/2/22
MikeP #2940066 12/02/22 01:34 PM
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Hey Mike....

MLC or WAS ?

Doesn't really matter on your path for now....

Her confusion is a good sign of it though....

Most WAS ?

Well, the "WA" in that equation is Walk Away.....

She is still there ....albeit for who knows how long...


This was a good thread from a few years back.....maybe it can help some on your path right now....



Cyclone



I always thought that thread should be a "go to" read ...

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MikeP #2940067 12/02/22 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeP
Originally Posted by DnJ
Good Morning Mike

I think it’s a bit of both. However, I am leaning more towards the larger part is crisis, or a difficult life transition.

W has displayed depression for quite some time now. She won’t even speak to her Mom. You’ve mentioned that during her childhood she ignored or smoothed over conflict and drama, probably to an unhealthy degree. However she was a child and needed guidance, not her fault. Those early lessons follow a person into adulthood.

I find her not speaking to her Mom kind of telling. Something has stirred within her, and she defaulted to ignoring it. And she’s incorrectly projecting the target upon you.

Give time and space, no pressure, and hopefully she will realize you ain’t done anything lately to cause this, yet she’s still unhappy. Then she’ll consider - maybe it’s actually not Mike’s fault. Then, she’ll look inside.

A walk away. Hmmm. Well she ain’t yet walked away. She actually came back. Meals, dates, she’s even initiated sex, something that usually doesn’t happen when an OM is significantly in the picture. (My W told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married woman faithful to her affair. Weird times.)

Depression and confusion are two major hallmarks of a person within a crisis or emotional turmoil. The full blown crisis is consuming. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour and need to run from their torment. Your W appears not extremely driven, and not so consumed; hence a transition. Still, a transition is a time of emotional torment. Akin to a “mild” crisis.

There are many type of MLCer - vanisher (like mine), clinger, boomerang, and clingy boomerang. And their energies or drive comes in basically two type - high energy runner and low energy wallower. The high energy one expend tremendous energies running to not face their pain; and have an appearance, a need, a drive, a belief that they are absolutely right with their now life choices (that’s my W). The low energy ones will sit and brood and display their depression more. Both wear a mask, a facade, the wallower just lets it slip easier. Make no mistake, both are desperate to escape their feelings. And desperate people do desperate things. Both will display and partake in running behaviours, those activities to recapture their - what they feel is - missed youth.

And that is another major hallmark - what they feel. Their entire crisis and life and running is driven by what they feel. They are running from their feelings/pain. Almost all of their decisions are emotionally based. Reason and logic are no longer guiding principles, it’s all about ended their ceaseless torment. You can easily see how that would rack up the regrets and guilt. Which further propels them.

Interestingly, a MLCer settles into their particular type and energy level, and usually remains like that for their entire crisis. A major shift in a high energy behaviour may indicate awakening or just burning out. A wallower can just brood along.

As I said, a bit of both maybe.

So what to do?

Do more of what works, and less of what doesn’t.

The weekly meals sound promising. She is responding to you. Initiating sex. Is still there.

Now, don’t get ahead of yourself. Yes there are positive signs. Keep your expectations at zero, it is very likely she will flip and flop about for a while. Her life is a rollercoaster right now. No need for you to ride along. Be consistent with living your life. And let her lead the pace of things. Got to be pressure free.

Remain kind and cordial. Keep your cool. Find your peace regarding OM. Work through that, and let go of it. Nothing she can say or do will fix that. Your healing really does come from within you. A good thing, for you won’t have to wait around for something from her.

Have a great day Mike.

D

Thank you for the encouragement. It feels like a double whammy knowing she's so unhappy and still being at work with OM everyday. It almost feels inevitable that she will start it up with him again. As you have described above, she is so unhappy and wants the pain to end. She told me before that it was so much different (happier) when she was around him, so it stands to reason she will seek that out again. I've been doing a decent job of detaching, not great but better. It's kind of a fine line with that because I don't want to appear cold or distant like I used to do when I was unhappy about something. I think she is definitely a wallower and I know she is dealing with guilt on top of her other issues. Hard to see her hurting so much, despite the hurt she has caused me I still love her and don't want to see her suffering. Like everyone says, men are fixers and it goes against my nature to not try and "fix" her. I couldn't if I tried obviously. Funny you mentioned being faithful to the om. When she was living at her parents she would come over for visits and end up staying late. She was so tired and looked terrible, it was obviously taking a terrible toll on her body. Mutiple times I asked her to stay the night instead of driving home so tired, usually after she had fallen asleep. Told her to sleep on the sofa or I would. She wouldn't because he wouldn't like that. Crazy. Thanks again.


WWs are complex creatures. The mental gymnastics they go through to justify doing or not doing sometime is astounding. You need to remember that much of that is rooted in the fact that in her mind she "moved on" from the marriage. My WW throughout the weeks of our situation would constantly insist that the marriage was over.........and had been for a longtime. This mental gymnastic was to justify doing whatever she wanted. Online emotional affairs, talking to multiple men online, posting a local dating profile, etc. Anytime I protested (thus breaking good DBing behavior) she'd remind me that the marriage was over and had been to her for months.

So this "I've moved on to a new relatinship" mentality is very very common for WW. Where cheating on their legal husband is no where near as bad as "cheating" on their OM. Crazy, illogical, but then that is the mind of a WW.

My favorite is when a LBS snoops and finds evidence, and the WAS is incredulous that the LBS would dare break protocol, not trust them, and snoop including "breaking into" their devices and accounts. As if cheating on your spouse isn't as bad as spying on your spouse! That one always leaves me cross-eyed with confusion, but we've seen it a lot on this forum, and I saw it in my own situation.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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