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br4nd0n Offline OP
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LH19:

You might be right but I still wonder if there was a side/part of her that was impressed by some of it even if she doesn’t want to admit it.

Talking sports with FIL isn’t a problem in itself but what I mean is that instead of being lazy and doing that and just waiting for when someone says it’s time to eat, I spent time helping and bonding with her brother in law in the kitchen.

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Maybe. Why didn’t you want to bond with him before? What changed that all of a sudden you want to bond now?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don’t chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.” ~LH19
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Originally Posted by br4nd0n
but should I keep making an effort to do dishes, cleaning more, etc.?Over these past two months she has recognized these efforts but obviously still didn't move the needle at all....Let me know what you think.
I was a house cleaning, dish washing ninja after BD. I pretty much proved that the items on the list were not the true reason. I was even more of a cleaning, dish-washing ninja after I moved out and had to do these things only for me and the kids. I kept my little rental house immaculate.

As LH19 said, do your fair share, no more and no less. If she is slacking, call her on it. Do not let fear control you.

If you think the house is dirty, clean it. If you don't, do something else productive with your time.

If you use dishes clean them. Let her clean hers. If she complaints, listen and understand where her frustration is coming from.


This is my new normal:

W:"Would you take out the trash?"
Me:"Of course, would you mind getting me a glass of ice water?"

When I was single:
Woman at the bar:"Would you buy me a drink?"
ME":Absolutely, after you buy me one."

Do not be supplicating.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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br4nd0

Your W isn't thinking of leaving because you don't do enough dishes, and all of a sudden cozying up to her family and watching to see how she reacts comes off as disingenuous and is a form of pressure on her. Right now you're acting out of fear that any little thing you do wrong might be the final nail, but you can't live the rest of your life walking on eggshells and attempting to be perfect. Like the others said do what's right and do your fair share...but do not become a man running around to grant her every whim. Not only is it unsustainable but it's also unattractive.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
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BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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Originally Posted by br4nd0n
LH19:

You might be right but I still wonder if there was a side/part of her that was impressed by some of it even if she doesn’t want to admit it.

Mind reading is one of the seven deadly sins of DBing. It will just get you no where. Trust me, you have no idea what is going on in that head of hers, and to be frank, you don't want to know!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Originally Posted by BL42
br4nd0

Your W isn't thinking of leaving because you don't do enough dishes, and all of a sudden cozying up to her family and watching to see how she reacts comes off as disingenuous and is a form of pressure on her. Right now you're acting out of fear that any little thing you do wrong might be the final nail, but you can't live the rest of your life walking on eggshells and attempting to be perfect. Like the others said do what's right and do your fair share...but do not become a man running around to grant her every whim. Not only is it unsustainable but it's also unattractive.

Quick story. If you see my timeline in my signature you will see that BD happened for me the day before Christmas Eve. This meant that we had several days full of extended family events to attend over the next several days.

Brandon, not sure if you are a religious man, but I believe God's providence had a lot to do with the outcome in my situation. At Bible Class Sunday morning (this was 12/24, the day after BD) the teacher talked about how spouses needed to stick out the tough times. Too many spouses when things got rough took the highway, instead of digging in (like their vows said) and working through it. Then we had Christmas Eve at my side and my parents gave all of the married couples gift cards to restaurants and free babysitting for a "date night".

But the biggest one, later that week we got together with her side. As we were leaving her grandmother pulled me in to hug me and said she admired the man I was, that I took care of my family, and that she would be praying for me. My wife was standing right there and heard every word.

Here is the key Brandon, I hadn't done anything different. Don't become someone you aren't to impress her. Like BL says it is not sustainable, plus she will see right through it. Almost all of us have heard the words "Its too little too late." or "You are only doing this to get me to stay."

Become the best VERSION of YOU, don't become someone you aren't.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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br4nd0n Offline OP
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So this is an update I didn't want to have to give.

I did listen everyone's feedback about telling her that there wasn't a reason to attend anymore counseling sessions until she figured out what she wanted. But I thought to myself, my WAW is different because there doesn't seem to be an EA/PA. Maybe it can be different I thought to myself.

I also had more conversations with my wife than I should have. If you read my initial post, I talk about her really struggling with resentment in our relationship. I was annoyed that she hadn't wrote out the resentments like the counselor asked her to do because that felt like she wasn't even trying and she told me that she actually had legitimately forgiven for the resentments, believes my sincere apology, and also sincerely believes that once the bomb drop happened, something in me changed and made we want to be a better person.

All that said, she still "feels done" with the relationship.

I was at least feeling better that she had forgiven me for the resentments and thought well if only we could get some alone time together I could fix this.

So we go to couples counseling and we had an opportunity to go out just the two of us this past Friday while our daughter was at an overnight birthday party.

She really wasn't into going but she agreed with the assist of the counselor as long as I wouldn't follow up on how the date went, no analysis of the romantic side whatsoever, until back in counseling session.

So our alone date on Friday:

It goes amazing! We went to an intimate place she loves for a drink before dinner. In a non-pressuring way, I got her to hold my hand. I said, "Are you ready for our first date?" with a smile and stuck out my hand. We then held hands everywhere we went and it felt amazing!

We then go to an intimate dinner place I picked out and it goes amazing as well. I felt like she was really giving reconnecting a chance for the first time since the bomb drop. There was undeniable chemistry and connection. I got her to talk about many special memories we had in the past in our relationship, when we first met, vacations, when I was most romantic, etc. and we relived those together and discussed how we felt in those moments.

When we got home after dinner, in a very non pressure way, I asked about initiating intimacy (massage) thinking I would completely respect her saying no.

Well to my surprise, she said YES!

We got intimate that night.

I woke up feeling the best I had in months. I thought I was going to come back here and tell you guys I cracked the code.

Wellllllll, starting from the morning after, I immediately sensed withdrawn behavior again.

What I also realized is that we actually had Saturday night without our Daughter all night before too. But she scheduled time to have dinner and hang out with a girlfriend without telling me. Which hanging out with a friend isn't a big deal but it made me think that she already made the plans with her friend as an escape as it if it was predetermined that our date on Friday would fail. As if she couldn't possibly want another intimate night together on Saturday either.

So I try to keep the momentum going from our Friday date. While she goes out with her friend, I use GAL principle and go out with an old friend of mine as well. Just dinner as well so I get home around the same time.

Earlier in the day I asked if she wanted to watch a movie when we both got home but she didn't say yes or no, kind of avoided it.

Well so she goes out with her friend, I go out with mine. She probably beats me home about 20-25 minutes. I send her a picture of my friends new Corvette because I was riding with him....no text back.

Well I come in the door, hoping we can watch a movie, maybe have some wine, etc. and she is already in bed.....I knew things were not looking good.

Sunday morning, I tried to be lightly intimate and was rejected. Again, I can see things are not good which I'm really confused by since we had such a great time on Friday and even had sex.

So Sunday is really tense and withdrawn. We have our meeting with the Counselor today.

We talk about everything that happened and she still feels done with the relationship.

She said that it didn't change her mind and that was the apprehension of her going on the date to begin with.

So now we're at a place where were going to do an official "break" where we still live together obviously but no pressure, etc. She did admit that the more she feels pressure, the more it makes her feel "done" with the relationship and withdraw....basically the exactly what divorce busting says lol

Anyways, we're supposed to talk on Thursday of what that break looks like.

So I'm pretty much back where I started. Confusing but it is what it is.

I know that once the official "break" is there, I need to follow the DB principles, GAL, be the best father to my daughter, no texting/requests for dates, and just be a better me in hopes that she comes back around.

But this time, waiting for HER to talk about the relationship when shes ready.

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I’m sorry you’re feeling down. It’s terrible to feel rejected.

I feel like you avoided the advice of the board, and got burnt as a result.

You need to scrub what you thought you learned from this board, and start again from scratch.

If you thought one dinner date, a massage and sex was going to fix an entire relationship, perhaps you haven’t studied the welcome thread, read all the links, gone to IC to look at yourself, and haven’t the foggiest idea that what you are dealing with here is a 3, 4, 5 or 10 year battle - which, most of the time, won’t end in reconciliation.

There is no quick fix here. There’s no pushing or seducing or cornering this person into loving you and wanting to be with you.

You need to go back to the welcome thread and first principles. DB, separation, divorce/reconciliation is an oscillating, winding journey along an incredibly long road. You’ve barely turned the key to start the ignition.

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Hello B

Ok, so lesson learned. No pressure.

Focus firmly on you. That doesn’t mean totally ignore her. Be kind and cordial, yet treat her more like a roommate. Which I suspect the upcoming break is going to morph in to.

Lots of time and space. You now have irrefutable first hand evidence of how quickly she can flip the switch. Or appear to. Intimate on Friday, to done Saturday. Give her to her path, while you walk your’s.

Yes, let her lead when she wants to discuss the relationship. However, do not wait. Live and love your life. Be the best version of you. A man only a fool would leave.

Keep moving forward buddy.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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br4nd0n Offline OP
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Kind18:

You are right, I avoided some of the advice. I thought I knew my wife so well that I could fix this using my own technique, my romanticism, my own charm I guess....obviously I was wrong.

It's not that I thought one dinner date, massage, and sex was going to fix the entire relationship but maybe for her to start to at least see/acknowledge the connection we had and tilt in the direction or tick the ball forward of wanting to be an active participant in the resolution department.

I really believe with counseling we could get back to the best place we've ever been with intimacy, communication, etc. But it's getting her to be a willing participant that we've had problems with. Without that, there isn't any point.

In counseling I hear my wife say things like, "In my head I've convinced myself I'm done" and so now I "feel done". It's almost like she's in a trance and playing chess against herself and loosing.

And it also pisses me off because I have texts from a month or two ago where she seems so unsure and says thinks like "I think just need time. It feels like too much all at once. Pressure, etc.".

So to now saying "I'm done" so casually, I don't see how she could have complete clarity in that decision that quickly. Which I know is probably because of the pressure and why the break is probably the best thing...but it it blows.


DnJ:

Thanks and yes lesson learned.

Yes, I see how quick she can flip. It was shocking actually going from thinking I would continue the positive momentum from our date and intimacy that night to immediately back to withdrawn.


One thing that really bothered me is the lack of acknowledgement on her side on how well our date together went. The chemistry and connection was undeniable yet she minimized it when we talked in counseling. She said, yeah those were great memories that we relived but it doesn't change how I'm feeling.

Yeah, our conversations were great but when a couple is in a good place, there is an aura of a connection and I felt like we had that. But she is too blind to see it with this convincing herself of "being done".

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