Stuck in limbo III

[Doug54]

I got annoyed tonight after I had made dinner and then taken the younger two kids to the library while W ran … the issue arose when I was heading out to go for a walk and she said she had “homework” and couldn’t I get them to bed? I said it was the same “9:00 stuff every night” and I was getting tired of it (this is her sneaky time to be buried on her phone). She feigned indignation and I said she wasn’t in on the marriage and I was over it.

I made reference to sleeping apart and separate bank accounts where she pays for her boob job and phone bill. Terrible DBing, but I feel tired of kicking the can down the road. Didn’t Sandi advocate boundaries and consequences for wayward wives? We definitely have no mobility for separate living arrangements right now but I’m ready to pull some of the cake away.

[LH19]

I said it was the same “9:00 stuff every night” and I was getting tired of it (this is her sneaky time to be buried on her phone).

" I am sorry W not tonight I need some space to think".

She feigned indignation and I said she wasn’t in on the marriage and I was over it.

What was her response to you saying she wasn't in on the marriage?

I made reference to sleeping apart and separate bank accounts where she pays for her boob job and phone bill.

Not necessarily a bad thing to tell her. The question is did you say it out of emotion and did you mean it?

Terrible DBing, but I feel tired of kicking the can down the road.

What do you mean kicking the can down the road?

Didn’t Sandi advocate boundaries and consequences for wayward wives?

Yes! Sandi and I do/did not give advice straight out of the DB book.

We definitely have no mobility for separate living arrangements right now but I’m ready to pull some of the cake away.

Doug you have to tell me what your goals are right now. Are you trying to get your kids through a specific time in their lives or are you trying to draw your W back to the marriage?

[LH19]

What's going on Doug? W sleeping on the couch?

[Doug54]

What's going on Doug? W sleeping on the couch?

Ha, no. To be honest, I hardly even remember much of the conversation I wrote about above, even though it was only 6 days ago. Nothing has changed - same sleeping quarters, same incidence of bedroom activities with probably the same ratio of who initiates, same passcode on the phone.

I try to bear in mind the points from you and Mach1 about space and time being the only things that might resolve these situations. I've had to resist doing a temperature check where I ask W if she wants to go out to eat together while my parents watch the kids. I mean, just out of curiosity to see what her response would be. So far I haven't pushed it.

As you know, I'm mostly against pulling the rip cord and upending the kids' home life in drastic fashion. I still think that there's an MLC component to all this in which W feels bad about where she is in life.

I wish I had a more substantive update...been reading the new guy's thread and living vicariously through that a little.

Doug you have to tell me what your goals are right now. Are you trying to get your kids through a specific time in their lives or are you trying to draw your W back to the marriage?

I'm sorry to say, I guess kinda both. I do feel like I vacillate sometimes between the approach of giving all the space in the world and the boundaries/tough love approach to a WW advocated by you and Sandi. What do you recommend? If it's MLC or even a milder form of some mid-life transition, the boundary thing of saying the passcode must come off the phone if we're in a marriage seems ill-advised.

[Vapo]

Doug you have to tell me what your goals are right now. Are you trying to get your kids through a specific time in their lives or are you trying to draw your W back to the marriage?

I'm sorry to say, I guess kinda both. I do feel like I vacillate sometimes between the approach of giving all the space in the world and the boundaries/tough love approach to a WW advocated by you and Sandi. What do you recommend? If it's MLC or even a milder form of some mid-life transition, the boundary thing of saying the passcode must come off the phone if we're in a marriage seems ill-advised.

You can do a temp check if you wish, just do not put your feeling on the line and don't get your expectations up. There is no magic bullet, no magic shortcut, no miracle cure to snap your W out of it. This $hit takes time.

As far as phone codes go, it really does not matter one way or the other, unless she is 100% commited to the marriage and hassaid so herself in no uncertain terms.

If she is not commited to the marriage, it does not matter who she calls, messages or schtumps for that matter.

Main thing is, she's got to want to come back to the marriage, not be coerced, tricked or fooled. You have to became the man's man, the alpha, she has to feel the weakness in ker knees when you enter the room and above all, she has to respect you. Before anything happens, respect has to happen.

Don't wait for the respect to happen, do your thing. Crush it with the kids, crush it at work, start working out, do not invite her anywhere if she is not commited to the marriage. Update your wardrobe, go out even if it's just by yourself. Do not pick up women, but a little flirting does wonders for your confidence.

[LH19]

I try to bear in mind the points from you and Mach1 about space and time being the only things that might resolve these situations.

Well when I say it I mean time apart (space). Very rarely do you see in house separation work.

I've had to resist doing a temperature check where I ask W if she wants to go out to eat together while my parents watch the kids. I mean, just out of curiosity to see what her response would be. So far I haven't pushed it.

It's ok to do it if when she kicks you in the balls you don't get butt hurt.

As you know, I'm mostly against pulling the rip cord and upending the kids' home life in drastic fashion.

I understand and was on the same boat as you.

I still think that there's an MLC component to all this in which W feels bad about where she is in life.

Yep. All those Disney movies, Rom Coms that she has watched do not compare to the life she has now. She needs a change. She can't imagine doing this for another 30 years.

I'm sorry to say, I guess kinda both. I do feel like I vacillate sometimes between the approach of giving all the space in the world and the boundaries/tough love approach to a WW advocated by you and Sandi.

Well since you have indicated that you are still inside her from time to time that is the complete opposite of giving space lol.

What do you recommend?

Man this is a loaded question because I am on the other side. I have been on this board close to 8 years and there are very few recons in regards to WWs. There have been quite a few who have reconned and been back here a couple years later. Even SteveLW a famous LBH recon shows up here once a year wanting to D his wife. The advice here is solid to move on and have a great life if you stick to the GAL, 180 self improvement model. The problem is it doesn't work for recons immediately which is what most people come here for in the first place. I know my exw reacted favorably when I made strong moves when she was not settled on a decision.

If it's MLC or even a milder form of some mid-life transition, the boundary thing of saying the passcode must come off the phone if we're in a marriage seems ill-advised.

I think ideally you want to get to a place where something like that is absolutely unacceptable to you.

You can do a temp check if you wish, just do not put your feeling on the line and don't get your expectations up. There is no magic bullet, no magic shortcut, no miracle cure to snap your W out of it. This $hit takes time.

Agreed.

As far as phone codes go, it really does not matter one way or the other, unless she is 100% committed to the marriage and has said so herself in no uncertain terms.

It only matters if it is unacceptable to you and you act on it as being unacceptable.

If she is not committed to the marriage, it does not matter who she calls, messages or schtumps for that matter.

It only matters if it is unacceptable to you and you act on it as being unacceptable.

Main thing is, she's got to want to come back to the marriage, not be coerced, tricked or fooled.

Agree 100%

You have to became the man's man, the alpha, she has to feel the weakness in ker knees when you enter the room and above all, she has to respect you.

Agree 100%. This is the tricky part. She knows you know what she is up to and you are not doing anything about it so it is hard for her to respect you.

Before anything happens, respect has to happen.

Agree 100%. This is the tricky part. She knows you know what she is up to and you are not doing anything about it so it is hard for her to respect you.

Don't wait for the respect to happen, do your thing. Crush it with the kids, crush it at work, start working out, do not invite her anywhere if she is not committed to the marriage.

Agree 100%. You have to be relentless.

Update your wardrobe, go out even if it's just by yourself. Do not pick up women, but a little flirting does wonders for your confidence.

There was a poster on here years ago named TXhubby. He moped around for 3 years as his W ran around on him. Almost killed him. He finally had enough and got in shape and GAL like a madman. His Ws friends started to take interest in him and his W begged to have him back. He became someone of value and that's worth having.

Any how keep us updated.

[SteveLW]

I am on the side of not temp checking. Temp checking LBSs almost never can keep their expectations in check. So it is just better to avoid temp checks at all. We have a saying around here, "when a WAS wants to come back to the marriage, you will know it. When they don't you will be confused."

Boundaries are not about controlling her or her behavior. It is about controlling yourself. Anytime you have a boundary that tries to control her, then it isn't a proper boundary. For instance, telling her that a boundary is that her phone remain unlocked is NOT a boundary. That is you trying to control what you cannot.

Now, you may have a boundary that you will not tolerate her being on the phone with other men (text, voice, etc) around you. And your action if she does that is to leave! See the difference? Boundary crossed, Doug takes action. If she can cross a boundary and there is no action you can take (ie having a passcoded phone), then you are trying to control something you have no control over.

Now, if she ever comes back to the marriage and wants to recommit, then you can sit down and tell her what the requirements for that are. Full transparency, no unlocked phones or you know the passcode to it, you know about all of her personal accounts and what the passwords to those are, etc. If she refuses then you know that she is not really ready to recommit to the marriage. and you can act accordingly (continue DBing, file for D if your deadline for waiting is past, etc).

Most LBSs, and especially LBHs, struggle because they try to control things they have no control over.

[Kind18]

Most LBSs, and especially LBHs, struggle because they try to control things they have no control over.

Very, very true. Steve speaks the truth!

[LH19]

Yo Doug how was Thanksgiving?

[Doug54]

Yo Doug how was Thanksgiving?

LH, you tend to check in for all the major holidays, don't you?

Thanksgiving was ok. W's brother and his family visited and everyone had a good time. W's mother had had a medical procedure around the end of October and wasn't able to make it (along with W's father) so most of the family made the out-of-town trek the next day to visit them. I planned to go as well since I've never had a problem with her parents, but I was getting a vibe that W was reluctant for me to go along. It felt like she was going out of her way to not make it overly apparent, that I *could* attend if I wanted to, but I figured what points could be won by forcing myself into close quarters with W for an overnight stay? We do have several pets that didn't have accommodations, so it was arguably convenient for me to remain home. As soon as W arrived at her parents', she texted me that her folks were wondering why I didn't come. Her father texted me a while later saying he was sorry I couldn't make it and hoped I would next time. (It's clear she's never breathed a syllable about marital discontent to her folks.)

I've always suspected that whomever W connected with (and conceivably continues to be sneaky on her phone with) was someone from her past. No concrete reason, just an assumption since they originally talked on Facebook Messenger and the replay phase of MLC can involve an attempted return to youth (uh, right?). Anyhow, I couldn't help myself and asked S14 after they returned if W had gone off on her own at any point during the visit. He told me that she hadn't and had been with the family the entire time.

I don't see any evidence that W is sneaking around locally in a full-blown EA/PA but I do think that would be a dealbreaker for me at this point if I were to find out.

W is getting her breast augmentation done in a few weeks. My stepdaughter is driving her to the place, a few hours away. W got a recommendation for the facility from a former college friend. From what I gather, she's financing the procedure. I'd probably be intrigued with the whole thing if the marriage were on firmer ground, but I'm less than enamored as it is. Whatever...nothing I can really do to stop it. W and I both get our paychecks deposited into the same joint account, and I haven't yet been inclined to split them apart. Divorce isn't on the front burner yet. Any thoughts on this?

Stepson 19 and S6 had birthdays on back-to-back days. I was the only one to get them gifts or a cake. W is still a good mom but she's wrapped in the selfish throes of MLC a fair amount of the time. To be fair, W was raised in a cult-ish church that didn't celebrate any holidays other than Thanksgiving, and her parents didn't make much of a fuss over birthdays, either. I typically took the lead on gift-giving during our marriage, even in the past, but I don't recall W completely sitting on the sidelines 100%.

I've probably regressed on fully GALing since the days have gotten shorter. I keep up with the gym and try to do as much with the kids as possible.

I have read a few threads on the board recently, despite not posting much. I got sucked into Gordie's tale and his wife's crazy behavior. I am terrible at not heeding Mach1's advice to not extrapolate too much from other posters' situations onto one's own. One person had written in Gordie's thread that their spouse had been an MLC wallower for two years before running and running. So now I'm convinced that's what's in store for me.

I try not to borrow tomorrow's trouble today, but I do wonder how to play it if W's mindset is to have sneaky fun on the side without blowing up the family (and filing herself). What if there's no movement on her part next summer but I'm tired of where the marriage is? Technically, neither of us can kick the other spouse out of the house. I feel like I need a sort of game plan to keep in the back of my head along with a potential drop-dead date. Does anyone think next summer is too soon for such a date? That would be about a year and a half hence the start of my situation. I also would want some sort of confirmation of the extent of W's waywardness, before fully nuking the kids' household.

I wonder about the seeming contrast between "a MLC has to run its course- there's nothing you can do to alter it" vs the tough-love approach advocated by Sandi and a few others. I definitely don't have the stomach for a years' long dead-ish marriage. My line of thinking is unquestionably colored by all I've read on these boards. For instance, W lifted my shirt and scratched my back after coming to bed three straight nights last week, something that hadn't happened in a long time. I enjoyed it but also chalked it up to some wayward wife strategy. My IC said it's important to try to appreciate the little things in the moment during this time. That's another reason I don't try to play defense when W initiates nookie.

Any thoughts on my situation are welcome as always. I apologize for not posting on other threads, but as you can see, I still don't really have my own house in order.