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Originally Posted by BL42
It seems somewhat common from reading this forum for folks to waiver on that.
I'll give you credit - you've said this before and I'm probably guilty of it myself (to waver on being resolutely out on the MR).

Originally Posted by BL42
I can't recall your status. Sounds like limbo? Is she talking about separation / D? Any positive signs?
No talk of separation or D lately at all. For the record, my W is finishing up her degree in a different field and is set to make a good bit more money once that happens, potentially being able to afford a new place for herself. That may not happen until next summer, and likely not a full-blown house at that.

Originally Posted by BL42
Only you can answer that. If you're resolved to save your marriage you're going to have to be extremely patient.
Yes, that seems to be the conventional wisdom. So if she doesn't make her own move at some point, I'll have to decide how long I want to let her eat cake while not having enough of a "relationship" for my satisfaction. Also, do I want to break up the kids' family dynamic myself?


Originally Posted by Doug54
LH, maybe I should get myself into an intoxicating EA like you had to maybe match whatever W had or has going on.
Originally Posted by BL42
Hopefully you're kidding. That is a terrible idea, and would certainly not help your marriage.
Yeah, that was a joke...borne out of slight frustration. grin


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Originally Posted by Doug54
To be sure, W and I still live together, still talk every day (though not what I would necessarily call substantially), still sleep together.
Originally Posted by LH19
Ok. I did this for a two and a half years and am still alive.
I still don't know how you did that when your wife was completely out and you knew it.

Originally Posted by LH19
No. I would start to think about a drop dead date.
Probably next summer. A long way off to be sure, but we'll see if she's inclined to make her own move then with the pay bump from a new career.

Originally Posted by Doug54
She also inhales her phone every night from like 9-11 under the guise of "schoolwork." Yeah there's some computer work in that category that's legitimate, but there's also ample time and opportunity to be texting a dude.

Originally Posted by LH19
I am sure that is what she is doing. If you want and need proof there are ways to find out.
I would be delighted to hear your suggestions. It is not straight-up texting, but clearly some app like Snapchat or What'sApp. Short of grabbing her phone out of her hands when it's unlocked and in use, I am not sure how I would get access to this. I haven't snooped around since late July and it definitely feels less stressful not to be doing that and wondering what I might find, but I'd also say I'm ready to move on if she's neck deep in something else. The only thing I'd add is that when I did snoop around her computer, I saw texts and Facebook messages to friends about things that never came to pass, like separating. "Believe none of what they say" and all that...

Originally Posted by Doug54
I stopped outwardly caring a while back, but again the amount of potential cake-eating without sunlight at the end of the tunnel gives me pause.
Originally Posted by LH19
Pause for what?
Gives me pause...makes me wonder if I'm getting too taken advantage of.

Originally Posted by LH19
You could have it a lot worse. Have you read about Peter B's wife?
That's a fair point.

Originally Posted by LH19
You need to decide if you are in or you are out right now. Do you want to be able to tell your kids one day that you did everything you could to keep your family together?
I know, dude, but what does that mean if I'm "in"? How do I cut off the cake-eating, now or when the time comes? Do I want to tell the kids mom and dad hit Splitsville because daddy suspected mommy was texting too much and acted on that? Remember how you said your wife's first EA was just with some lonely schlub down the street who was getting divorced? I suppose I should calmly tread water for a while longer while giving space.


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Originally Posted by Mach1
Been waiting for this one to pop up....


This isn't tit for tat here..

YOU burn every ounce of fuel that you have inside of you....every day, then you recharge and begin anew tomorrow...

Quitting now allows you to be a victim of her behavior. And that doesn't sound like you....

She carried this marriage on her back for how long ??

And you want to give up after a few months ?

Puss

: )
I get what you're saying but I'm supposed to green-light EAs and W being emotionally distant because those interactions are being directed toward some other douche?



Originally Posted by Mach1
Who gives a flying fcku what she's doing...

What are YOU doing ??

You make your way through this with your GAL....

You also get through this by spending an enormous amount of time inside of your own head...

You own your crap, you work through the 'sting' moments, you invest in things that complete you.

You don't let her actions define who you want to be....

You act "as if" everything is going to work out the way you hope that it will.

I always knew without a doubt, that my situation would work out the way that I wanted it to. Right up until I decided later that it wouldn't. And THAT was still my decision....

What goals do you have for you. Not the marriage......YOU ???

What are you doing differently than you have in the past ??

Because 'standing' doesn't mean standing still, and with that mindset, you are simply 'waiting'...
I'm being who I want to be...but that guy might want to be with someone else if all I'm going to get is crumbs. I'm doing tons differently. I'm living my best life and starting to embrace it even more with each passing day. At 43 I've set a slew of personal bests in the gym. I would like it to work out with W, but I'm not a martyr.


Originally Posted by Mach1
DO NOT let her off the hook for this...
Ok, this one threw me a little....don't let her off the hook for her EA and texting or whatever she has going on?


Originally Posted by Mach1
Same thing we discussed a while back....

You are either in, or you are out.


I would hate for you to be sitting on your porch down the road, wondering "if only".....
What do you recommend? If I stay in, what does that entail?


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Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Doug54
To be sure, W and I still live together, still talk every day (though not what I would necessarily call substantially), still sleep together.
Originally Posted by LH19
Ok. I did this for a two and a half years and am still alive.
I still don't know how you did that when your wife was completely out and you knew it.
Ok here is a brief version of my story one more time. I pick up EXWs phone to check weather and it has a passcode. Confronted her and could tell she was lying. Eventually admitted to texting neighbor. Separated for 3 months with me living with friend. Find DB site. OM1 wants nothing to do with her after it's exposed. She agrees to try again. For a year and a half she half heartedly tries but when we would have a relationship talk she says can't get feelings back. Had a great business trip with her and things start feeling like they could turn with a really good anniversary. My daughter gets a new friend with single dad (OM2) and two months later bomb drops. At that point I throw in towel and we are stuck living together for over a year while waiting for D to be final and her to find a house.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Probably next summer. A long way off to be sure, but we'll see if she's inclined to make her own move then with the pay bump from a new career.
See another reason to stick it out. She gets a bump and you are on the hook for less child support.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I would be delighted to hear your suggestions. It is not straight-up texting, but clearly some app like Snapchat or What'sApp. Short of grabbing her phone out of her hands when it's unlocked and in use, I am not sure how I would get access to this. I haven't snooped around since late July and it definitely feels less stressful not to be doing that and wondering what I might find, but I'd also say I'm ready to move on if she's neck deep in something else. The only thing I'd add is that when I did snoop around her computer, I saw texts and Facebook messages to friends about things that never came to pass, like separating. "Believe none of what they say" and all that...
Again if you really want to know ask her to let you see her phone.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Gives me pause...makes me wonder if I'm getting too taken advantage of.
Of course you are being taken advantage of you are the LBS. In a relationship the one who cares the least is the one in control.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I know, dude, but what does that mean if I'm "in"? How do I cut off the cake-eating, now or when the time comes? Do I want to tell the kids mom and dad hit Splitsville because daddy suspected mommy was texting too much and acted on that? Remember how you said your wife's first EA was just with some lonely schlub down the street who was getting divorced? I suppose I should calmly tread water for a while longer while giving space.
You don't have to tread water. You go completely in the opposite direction. Everything is about Doug and the kids. EVERYTHING. Start a new hobby. I trained for a marathon and joined cross-fit. Read books on attraction. Sounds like you are already crushing it in the gym. I restarted when I was 50. you have 7 years on me. You can sacrifice a year and dedicate it to self improvement. Here is the truth of the matter. She is going to recommit to the marriage or she isn't. This is going to play itself out one way or another. I think keeping your family together is worth a year don't you?

Like Mach said you don't want to be sitting on that front porch rocking chair when you are 80 wondering what if you would have gave her more time to figure her $hit out.

I at times wasn't a very good husband and made my share of mistakes. I can honestly look my children in the eyes and say "I made mistakes for sure but I did everything in my power to make up for them and keep this family together". That I feel really good about at the end of the day.


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Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Mach1
Been waiting for this one to pop up....


This isn't tit for tat here..

YOU burn every ounce of fuel that you have inside of you....every day, then you recharge and begin anew tomorrow...

Quitting now allows you to be a victim of her behavior. And that doesn't sound like you....

She carried this marriage on her back for how long ??

And you want to give up after a few months ?

Puss

: )
I get what you're saying but I'm supposed to green-light EAs and W being emotionally distant because those interactions are being directed toward some other douche?

What if that is really what is happening ??

What then ?

Is that your dealbreaker ??

Can you walk away with zero regrets ??




Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Mach1
Who gives a flying fcku what she's doing...

What are YOU doing ??

You make your way through this with your GAL....

You also get through this by spending an enormous amount of time inside of your own head...

You own your crap, you work through the 'sting' moments, you invest in things that complete you.

You don't let her actions define who you want to be....

You act "as if" everything is going to work out the way you hope that it will.

I always knew without a doubt, that my situation would work out the way that I wanted it to. Right up until I decided later that it wouldn't. And THAT was still my decision....

What goals do you have for you. Not the marriage......YOU ???

What are you doing differently than you have in the past ??

Because 'standing' doesn't mean standing still, and with that mindset, you are simply 'waiting'...
I'm being who I want to be...but that guy might want to be with someone else if all I'm going to get is crumbs. I'm doing tons differently. I'm living my best life and starting to embrace it even more with each passing day. At 43 I've set a slew of personal bests in the gym. I would like it to work out with W, but I'm not a martyr.

What does working it out mean to you ??

Not a glossed over version either...

What does that look like ??

Kudos on the personal best at the gym....

DBing, is striving for a personal best at life...

THAT is what I'm looking forward to issuing Kudos on....




Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Mach1
DO NOT let her off the hook for this...
Ok, this one threw me a little....don't let her off the hook for her EA and texting or whatever she has going on?

This response intentionally left blank....for now...



Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Mach1
Same thing we discussed a while back....

You are either in, or you are out.


I would hate for you to be sitting on your porch down the road, wondering "if only".....
What do you recommend? If I stay in, what does that entail?

I'm gonna start off by asking you this....

What does fully embracing DB mean to you ??

What does that look like ???

Sigh....

Look, I'm not gonna get all preachy with you here..

You appear to be around the 5-6 month mark. I haven't posted to anyone yet, that around that time mark, hasn't become frustrated and wanted to quit because the reality of their situation is starting to sink in.

There is an anger that they can't control their spouse...

There is a fear that divorce will become their new future label...

There is a fear of judgement from friends and family because of a divorce...

There is a frustration that essentially, we can't have "our way", and things just won't go back to normal.

We envision our spouse coming home one day, and having make up sex and everything goes back to what it once was.

We can slip back into being an asshat, and all patterns return to normal, and we never have to look into that mirror, and realize the issues that have plagued us for years....

We can go back to being angry, frustrated, and controlling. Letting passive aggressive behaviors control the free will of another human being...

Because doing anything different scares the bejeesus out of us....


Around that timeframe is when you define your stand, and what that stand means to you....

You define who you will become on the other side of this...and define who you are through this.

Truthfully ? Most 'guys' can't get past their own machoism and the perception that they need to get laid, and give up...

Looking in the mirror is too hard, and requires total honesty within themselves, something that has often been missing throughout their lives....

We define our vows, and what they mean to us, and who we want to be through them....

Better or worse...right ?

Fcuk man......anyone can do the 'better'....

It's the 'worse' that defines who we are...

Richer or poorer ?

Anyone can do the 'richer'

Who are you when you don't have two nickels to rub together ?

Sickness and health ??

Anyone can do 'health'

It's who you are when sickness invades you...

You DB because you choose to DB, and nobody else can define that for you...

What do your vows mean to you ??

F her man.....

YOU ??

Although you said them to her, they are for you, what you vowed to do regardless if she is sitting on your lap giving you a happy ending, or she is texting ILY to the f-ing garbage man...

It's your commitment TO her....no matter what....


So your choice....in or out..

You said you wanted in, yet I didn't believe your answer then, because you didn't believe it either...

Standing is YOUR choice....

Limbo is YOUR choice...

Loving her is YOUR choice...



So to answer the above....

Standard issue WAS playbook, chapter 3, paragraph 14...

"I wish you would just go find someone to make you happy "


When that happens, depending on your answer to the above, YOU essentially, let her off the hook...

You relieve every ounce of her remorse, guilt, and you justify her excuse for wanting out.....


You ready to do that ?

I don't think that you are....

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Doug54,
Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by BL42
I can't recall your status. Sounds like limbo? Is she talking about separation / D? Any positive signs?
No talk of separation or D lately at all.
Well the no talk of separation or D lately is good. The EA is bad obviously. But sounds like you have a livable status quo at the moment - certainly not ideal, but tenable.

Originally Posted by Doug54
For the record, my W is finishing up her degree in a different field and is set to make a good bit more money once that happens, potentially being able to afford a new place for herself. That may not happen until next summer, and likely not a full-blown house at that.
Originally Posted by LH19
See another reason to stick it out. She gets a bump and you are on the hook for less child support.
Your W may be waiting until she upgrades her income and then move out...or not. That's mind reading and try to predict the future. As LH says, you want her to make more so that's a good thing. If you stay together, great your combined incomes are higher. If it comes to D it'll help your position when it comes to child and spousal support. Who's paying for the degree? That could be a financial factor in the D. I'd learn about the law there if I were you.

Originally Posted by Doug54
Also, do I want to break up the kids' family dynamic myself?
I'd think long and hard about this one. You have 3 kids together and your youngest is just 5 years old. The two of you will need to interact and coordinate quite a bit over the next 15 years, and will be linked for the rest of your lives - weddings, grandkids...etc. Ultimately it may not be up to you if W decides on her own, but do you want to be the one who gave up?

Originally Posted by Doug54
Originally Posted by Doug54
LH, maybe I should get myself into an intoxicating EA like you had to maybe match whatever W had or has going on.
Originally Posted by BL42
Hopefully you're kidding. That is a terrible idea, and would certainly not help your marriage.
Yeah, that was a joke...borne out of slight frustration. grin
Fair enough. Being here in this sitch you're certainly allowed a joke out of frustration once in awhile!

Originally Posted by LH19
You don't have to tread water. You go completely in the opposite direction. Everything is about Doug and the kids. EVERYTHING. Start a new hobby. I trained for a marathon and joined cross-fit. Read books on attraction. Sounds like you are already crushing it in the gym. I restarted when I was 50. you have 7 years on me. You can sacrifice a year and dedicate it to self improvement. Here is the truth of the matter. She is going to recommit to the marriage or she isn't. This is going to play itself out one way or another. I think keeping your family together is worth a year don't you?

Like Mach said you don't want to be sitting on that front porch rocking chair when you are 80 wondering what if you would have gave her more time to figure her $hit out.

I at times wasn't a very good husband and made my share of mistakes. I can honestly look my children in the eyes and say "I made mistakes for sure but I did everything in my power to make up for them and keep this family together". That I feel really good about at the end of the day.
Exactly what LH said. Don't worry about her at all - she's going to do what she's going to do - completely shift your focus to you and the kids. Get out there and get at it! Use the limbo time to make yourself and your life awesome. You'll have a better relationship for it if she recommits and if not you'll have a huge head start for your post-D life.

Originally Posted by Mach1
We define our vows, and what they mean to us, and who we want to be through them....

Better or worse...right ? Fcuk man......anyone can do the 'better'.... It's the 'worse' that defines who we are...

Richer or poorer ? Anyone can do the 'richer'. Who are you when you don't have two nickels to rub together ?

Sickness and health ?? Anyone can do 'health'. It's who you are when sickness invades you...

You DB because you choose to DB, and nobody else can define that for you...

What do your vows mean to you ?? F her man.....YOU ??

Although you said them to her, they are for you, what you vowed to do regardless if she is sitting on your lap giving you a happy ending, or she is texting ILY to the f-ing garbage man...

It's your commitment TO her....no matter what....
Also exactly what Mach said in terms of vows. As you're at a tough point here dig down deep and decide what your values and morals are. "For better or worse". "For better" is the easy part, this is the "worse". Sounds like she's breaking her vows right now, and may ultimately decide to break up the marriage (TBD), but YOU don't have to. You can do what's right for you and your children, and even if the marriage doesn't work out know you did everything you could and honestly tell your kids you took the high road and did the right thing. Certainly you can take a year to work on yourself and be present with your kids while in limbo to say that. Is it fair? No. Are you getting taken advantage of? Yes. But..."To thine own self be true".


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Originally Posted by Doug54
Things aren't bad in the house aside from being a little "boring"
Make your house more exciting. Got any crazy guy friends? Maybe get them over to watch the game and drink some beer? Escalate from there.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by LH19
For a year and a half she half heartedly tries but when we would have a relationship talk she says can't get feelings back.
What were you doing having relationship talks? That's a no-no. Out of curiosity, do you recall if you or your ex would bring those up?

Originally Posted by LH19
At that point I throw in towel and we are stuck living together for over a year while waiting for D to be final and her to find a house.
What did that entail? If I recall, you kept sleeping in the same bed and having relations until the week she moved out.

Originally Posted by LH19
Here is the truth of the matter. She is going to recommit to the marriage or she isn't. This is going to play itself out one way or another. I think keeping your family together is worth a year don't you?
Yes. Gonna have to dig deep. Appreciate the words of wisdom!


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Mach, you said something a while back comparing a person going through a MLC to trying on a bunch of different outfits and leaving discarded clothes lying around the floor of a room. That analogy describes my W almost to a T - so many ideas of things she's going to do or try that never come to pass, or things she gets into and loses interest in.

Originally Posted by Mach1
What if that is really what is happening ??

What then ?

Is that your dealbreaker ??

Can you walk away with zero regrets ??
I'm personally going to give it until next June/July-ish before I walk. If you remember, my situation has been marked by neither W nor I preferring to leave the residence. But year, I'll have to be out next summer if there's no traction.

Originally Posted by Mach1
What does working it out mean to you ??
This one's not too tough for me - we do things as a couple again; W stops camping out on her phone half the night & wears her wedding ring again...it feels like an emotional connection exists again. I am doing / plan to do my part in the restoration of the relationship.

Originally Posted by Mach1
There is a frustration that essentially, we can't have "our way", and things just won't go back to normal
I would say this is true..."where is my reward for my efforts?"

Originally Posted by Mach1
It's who you are when sickness invades you...
I feel like if I frame this as how I react to the MLC and my W as a sometimes alien being, it makes it easier to convince myself I have a job to do and a role to play. Keeping that at the forefront of my mind is another thing.

Originally Posted by Mach1
"I wish you would just go find someone to make you happy "


When that happens, depending on your answer to the above, YOU essentially, let her off the hook...

You relieve every ounce of her remorse, guilt, and you justify her excuse for wanting out.....


You ready to do that ?

I don't think that you are....
It's been tempting here and there to use a line like that. I see how it would be detrimental when you put it that way. My inclination would be to use the line as "I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me." I've seen versions of that "script" here on the DB forums.

I appreciate your thoughts and will try (for my own sake) to forge ahead one day at a time.


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Originally Posted by Doug54
What were you doing having relationship talks? That's a no-no. Out of curiosity, do you recall if you or your ex would bring those up?
Nah she would. I think in a away to let me know even though she said she was trying she had one foot out the door.
Originally Posted by LH19
At that point I throw in towel and we are stuck living together for over a year while waiting for D to be final and her to find a house.
Originally Posted by Doug54
What did that entail? If I recall, you kept sleeping in the same bed and having relations until the week she moved out.
Yeah I never left the bed nor did she. Yeah we had relations from time to time. If I was in the mood I would give it a shot. Most times it worked but not always lol. We always did dinner as a family but that was it for the final 16 months. Never nothing together. Tried to keep it as normal for kids as possible to the end. By this time I knew NOTHING would change her mind other than being single and seeing for herself what that looked like.


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