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Originally Posted by Traveler
Ready2Change, you don't write as much about yourself. What's your ideal GAL? Maybe one of our personal GAL ideas will inspire Doug to try something new and exciting!
I was a little different when I arrived here in the fact that I was GAL already. I had to shift away from some of the solo activities to be more social activities. I am never bored.

Photography is my main hobby that ties into all the others. Can do it almost anytime or anywhere. I can take photos alone and ranging up to fully interacting with and photographing people at a wedding. Taking photos, processing, printing are all enjoyable.

Outdoors-Biking,hunting,fishing,hiking,camping,target shooting, archery. Typically go out for 10 day's on horseback archery hunting at the end of sept. Could easily leave the bow and just focus on the camera work.

While I was going through the divorce process and it was not my parenting time, I would frequently do dinners out alone. Interact with the staff. Movies alone. I would review the entertainment section of the paper and find live music to go check out. I avoided drinking alcohol, but would visit several of the local bars on my motorcycle. Play pool or sit by the fire drinking water.

I typically make it a point to meet new people when I go out.(180 from the old me). Pretty much ask a couple questions and listen for the rest of the night.

I believe we all need a balance between solo and social GAL. Balance between home and away.

If you have recently been leaning left, start leaning a little farther right for a bit. IE if you have been focused on your home life and one woman, get out their and just enjoy interacting with the ladies. Keep your boundaries. Can't beat putting smiles on several ladies throughout the day.

New friends and dinner parties. Theme nights---pasta thowdown...everyone makes their favorite pasta dish.

There are guided bike rides down pikes peak highway...It has been a minute, but I would go down Barr trail. 14 miles.

Scuba-diving anytime I get near the ocean.

Astronomy- never ending things to see in the sky...check out your local club.

Aquariums- Start up a saltwater reef tank...so much to enjoy. Check out the local club as well.

Chess - online or in person.

Start a garden, or some herbs in the window.

Rebuild an engine or transmission or do some body work on a classic car.

A little off the top of my head....


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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An update, of sorts...

- I finished The Five Love Languages and gave DR another read. Mach, you were right - there were parts of Love Languages that were a bit painful to read because I could see where I had dropped the ball needlessly in the past.

- Had what I think was our last MC session last week. Each one, I think, got incrementally better than the first one where I more or less unloaded on W for her EA. This time, I reiterated that I wasn't in favor of divorce, W reiterated that she felt like she'd moved on from the MR and had "emotionally detached" and then proceeded to cry while talking about not having felt supported in the past. I validated everything and admitted that I shared in the blame for getting to where we are today. W again mentioned she didn't feel she had any local options for moving out and didn't want to leave the kids. W added that she had a hard time being decisive. The counselor repeated from prior sessions that she didn't blame me for not wanting to leave while reminding W that divorce carries considerable collateral damage and things wouldn't just seamlessly transition. (This isn't verbatim and in order, but in a roundabout memory sequence of events.) At one point near the end, W mentioned that we were still sleeping in the same bed and that that might be the next domino to fall. When we walked out of the building afterwards, W smiled at me and said something joking about the sleep situation and then added "I still feel conflicted sometimes" (about D).

- Stepson has moved out to college and S(14) claimed his room. W could have easily grabbed that room or tried to hint that I move there if she were serious about putting some space between us.

- W seems to be softening. It took a while to recover from the events of that first MC session and its aftermath but she asked me to go out with her yesterday and later initiated "things." Having said that, I still feel like I see similarities with LH19's situation where his EXW hung on for over a year and still bolted.

- On that note, it is very likely we'll be in the house together with the kids until at least next June, based on certain circumstances.

- I continue to GAL and have volunteered with a local hospice organization.

- I continue to drop the rope and leave W to do what she wants. Haven't snooped for anything nor have I felt a desire to in spite of many opportunities. The only nagging thought (at times) is not knowing if she's still dicking around in EA territory on her phone. But through my re-reading of DR I've resolved to just give her the space and let things play out on their own.

- No R talks at all.

- I still feel like the deal with W is MLC, so things could probably turn on a dime. Her disposition towards me is often congruent with how much she has on her plate and stress level...but I suppose that's how it often was in the MR to be quite honest.


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Hi Doug, glad you validated instead of challenged her and had a good day! It's good to be open to either possibility, but there's hope that you'll join this forum's recon success stories.

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Originally Posted by Doug54
I finished The Five Love Languages and gave DR another read. Mach, you were right - there were parts of Love Languages that were a bit painful to read because I could see where I had dropped the ball needlessly in the past.

Yep Doug I am sure you dropped the ball mostly because you didn't know what you didn't know. How many LL experts are going to be available and hot to trot for a middle age woman with 5 kids? .0001% maybe?
Originally Posted by Doug54
This time, I reiterated that I wasn't in favor of divorce, W reiterated that she felt like she'd moved on from the MR and had "emotionally detached" and then proceeded to cry while talking about not having felt supported in the past.

Doug you really need to stop reiterated you don't want a divorce. She knows it. For you to change turn this around she needs to wonder where you stand.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I validated everything and admitted that I shared in the blame for getting to where we are today.
That's all you can do is apologize once and own your part.
Originally Posted by Doug54
The counselor repeated from prior sessions that she didn't blame me for not wanting to leave while reminding W that divorce carries considerable collateral damage and things wouldn't just seamlessly transition.
Sounds like you have a good counselor.
Originally Posted by Doug54
At one point near the end, W mentioned that we were still sleeping in the same bed and that that might be the next domino to fall.

Good luck finding a place to sleep honey.
Originally Posted by Doug54
When we walked out of the building afterwards, W smiled at me and said something joking about the sleep situation and then added "I still feel conflicted sometimes" (about D).
Let me give you a little sniff to keep you on the hook Dougie.
Originally Posted by Doug54
- W seems to be softening. It took a while to recover from the events of that first MC session and its aftermath but she asked me to go out with her yesterday and later initiated "things."

If you really wanted to save your marriage you should have said "sorry I have plans" and went out alone with zero explanation.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Having said that, I still feel like I see similarities with LH19's situation where his EXW hung on for over a year and still bolted.

Probably. Guess what? Nothing you can do about it.
Originally Posted by Doug54
On that note, it is very likely we'll be in the house together with the kids until at least next June, based on certain circumstances.

So what is your plan? Fight? Throw in towel?
Originally Posted by Doug54
- I continue to GAL and have volunteered with a local hospice organization.

Great! You doing this for you or show?
Originally Posted by Doug54
I continue to drop the rope and leave W to do what she wants. Haven't snooped for anything nor have I felt a desire to in spite of many opportunities.
Perfect!
Originally Posted by Doug54
The only nagging thought (at times) is not knowing if she's still dicking around in EA territory on her phone.

So what changes if she is and what changes if she isn't?
Originally Posted by Doug54
But through my re-reading of DR I've resolved to just give her the space and let things play out on their own.
Time and space are the only things that fix these things long-term.
Originally Posted by Doug54
no R talks at all.
Great!
Originally Posted by Doug54
I still feel like the deal with W is MLC, so things could probably turn on a dime.

Turn in what way? If it's MLC this will play out for many years. Like 5-7 years minimum.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Her disposition towards me is often congruent with how much she has on her plate and stress level...but I suppose that's how it often was in the MR to be quite honest.
Absolutely. When highly stressed it's Doug's fault. He's not doing this and he's not doing that.

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Doug54,
Originally Posted by Doug54
I finished The Five Love Languages and gave DR another read. Mach, you were right - there were parts of Love Languages that were a bit painful to read because I could see where I had dropped the ball needlessly in the past.
That's great you're putting in the work. Keep reading up on the relevant topics. Be honest with yourself on your areas for improvement, and tackle them.

Originally Posted by Doug54
Had what I think was our last MC session last week. Each one, I think, got incrementally better than the first one where I more or less unloaded on W for her EA.
Meaning in the first one you went off on her and since you've gotten better about just listening and validating? If so, good.

Originally Posted by Doug54
This time, I reiterated that I wasn't in favor of divorce, W reiterated that she felt like she'd moved on from the MR and had "emotionally detached" and then proceeded to cry while talking about not having felt supported in the past.
Originally Posted by LH19
Doug you really need to stop reiterated you don't want a divorce. She knows it. For you to change turn this around she needs to wonder where you stand.
I agree w/LH. She knows where you stand. Stop saying it. If anything better she wonder if you've changed your mind.

Originally Posted by Doug54
I validated everything and admitted that I shared in the blame for getting to where we are today.
Originally Posted by LH19
That's all you can do is apologize once and own your part.
Again, agree w/LH. It's good to accept the appropriate level of blame...but don't keep going on and on about it. Don't think by any means if you continue to apologize over and over - for either stuff you fairly messed up on but also things that really weren't your fault but you want to accept to make it better - that it'll change her mind. You've apologized...time for your to move on.

Originally Posted by Doug54
W again mentioned she didn't feel she had any local options for moving out and didn't want to leave the kids.
Remember, not your problem. Let her deal with the consequences of her actions.

Originally Posted by Doug54
W mentioned that we were still sleeping in the same bed and that that might be the next domino to fall.
"OK".

Originally Posted by Doug54
Stepson has moved out to college and S(14) claimed his room. W could have easily grabbed that room or tried to hint that I move there if she were serious about putting some space between us.
This sounds like you're trying to read too much into things. Don't spend your time mind reading. I think it's pretty clear she's serious.

Originally Posted by Doug54
she asked me to go out with her yesterday and later initiated "things."
Meaning sex?

Originally Posted by Doug54
I continue to drop the rope and leave W to do what she wants. Haven't snooped for anything nor have I felt a desire to in spite of many opportunities. The only nagging thought (at times) is not knowing if she's still dicking around in EA territory on her phone. But through my re-reading of DR I've resolved to just give her the space and let things play out on their own.
Good. Easier said than done.

Originally Posted by Doug54
No R talks at all.
What about MC? Sounds like you were pressuring on the R there.

Originally Posted by Doug54
I still feel like the deal with W is MLC, so things could probably turn on a dime.
Don't bet on things turning on a dime. Sounds to me like she's serious but nervous about logistics and consequences with the kids on pulling the plug. Keep working on detachment.

Sounds like you're doing well overall. Remember to keep improving yourself...keep reading, working out, becoming more attractive, GAL...etc.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Originally Posted by Doug54
An update, of sorts...

- I finished The Five Love Languages and gave DR another read. Mach, you were right - there were parts of Love Languages that were a bit painful to read because I could see where I had dropped the ball needlessly in the past.


I'm glad that you did, and there is a reason I asked you to. And it isn't for anything anyone else is saying, just be patient and I will get to that. Just don't donate it to a homeless shelter or anything, tuck it away all nice and safe for now.

What kind of "sting' did you feel ?

In what areas ??




Originally Posted by Doug54
- Had what I think was our last MC session last week. Each one, I think, got incrementally better than the first one where I more or less unloaded on W for her EA. This time, I reiterated that I wasn't in favor of divorce, W reiterated that she felt like she'd moved on from the MR and had "emotionally detached" and then proceeded to cry while talking about not having felt supported in the past. I validated everything and admitted that I shared in the blame for getting to where we are today. W again mentioned she didn't feel she had any local options for moving out and didn't want to leave the kids. W added that she had a hard time being decisive. The counselor repeated from prior sessions that she didn't blame me for not wanting to leave while reminding W that divorce carries considerable collateral damage and things wouldn't just seamlessly transition. (This isn't verbatim and in order, but in a roundabout memory sequence of events.) At one point near the end, W mentioned that we were still sleeping in the same bed and that that might be the next domino to fall. When we walked out of the building afterwards, W smiled at me and said something joking about the sleep situation and then added "I still feel conflicted sometimes" (about D).


MC is always a tough time during this. Most MLCers will avoid it, so kudos to her for at least showing up...

MC is also a "safe" room, where relationship talks happen, things get said, and anger and frustration, years of resentment is supposed to happen.

Yet, also, the Doug that has been the husband for several years isn't the Doug that has shown up at these lately. He looks like him ....just not that same guy...

I'm glad that you stated your position once again in the safe room, it's not "new" information to her, yet I think that maybe your sessions have changed a bit recently, and just listening to her and validating her will allow her to come to you a little more, feel a little safer little by little.

There is a reason that she found an EA, and those typically are a person that the WAS feels safe with and trusts to hear all of the things that she is starting to tell you.

I would temper those talks, and not be available all the time for them. Aloof, yet available...

I'm also glad that your counselor said the things that they said about Divorce.

It's a reality that most aren't aware of in the moment. Everything is so "instant gratification" that the reality of it all often gets overlooked.

It's a truth dart perfectly placed, and you aren't the one who threw it.....

And the guilt over it is a perfect bullseye...thrown by a person who she has chosen to receive advice and guidance from.




Originally Posted by Doug54
- W seems to be softening. It took a while to recover from the events of that first MC session and its aftermath but she asked me to go out with her yesterday and later initiated "things." Having said that, I still feel like I see similarities with LH19's situation where his EXW hung on for over a year and still bolted.

The problem with some of that, is do NOT apply OPS to this....

OPS = Other People's Schidt...

You aren't LH, and your situation isn't his. And his advice will lead you to his result if you allow it.

Your situation will always be 100% yours, UNLESS you work toward a goal that you do not want....

I was always 100% confident that my situation would work out, right up to the minute that I chose for it not to....

Be confident with the goal that you are working toward....

And THAT is the reason I was pushing you to choose what you wanted....




Originally Posted by Doug54
- I still feel like the deal with W is MLC, so things could probably turn on a dime. Her disposition towards me is often congruent with how much she has on her plate and stress level...but I suppose that's how it often was in the MR to be quite honest.


It's called the MLC bounce....

Up one minute, down the next, all over the F'ing place...

Trick is, to stay far enough away to not get hit with any collateral damage...

Her confusion is a good sign, she is convinced that she is moving one way, then not so convinced the next.

Be the consistent with YOUR goals in what you want...

No more words now, it's all about your actions and who you are becoming...

Stay true to you and your goals, and let her fly around all over the place....

No sense in you both doing that.

Keep being confident Doug.....

NOT arrogant Doug....

Confident....

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Originally Posted by Doug54
- W seems to be softening. It took a while to recover from the events of that first MC session and its aftermath but she asked me to go out with her yesterday and later initiated "things." Having said that, I still feel like I see similarities with LH19's situation where his EXW hung on for over a year and still bolted.

Mind reading will only hurt you.

Originally Posted by Doug54
- I still feel like the deal with W is MLC, so things could probably turn on a dime. Her disposition towards me is often congruent with how much she has on her plate and stress level...but I suppose that's how it often was in the MR to be quite honest.

No it fecking won't. In statistical terms the odds that this will turn on a dime in neglible. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

Read and reread Sandi's rules. Reread them often, internalize them, at least 3 times a day.

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If you read the situations that got to R--where the WAS ceased any affairs and got on-board trying to save the marriage--most neither turned on a dime weeks after joining nor took many years. The sweet seems to be 6 months (early) to 2 years (late). I'm impressed you're finding the strength to validate, not cave on moving out of the bedroom/home, and not act cold or mean. It's a marathon, keep at those GAL/180s! If you need to vent, find safe places like here or the gym.

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Originally Posted by Doug54
- I finished The Five Love Languages and I could see where I had dropped the ball needlessly in the past.
That is a drop in the bucket of the knowledge you need to acquire. There are other skills that are much more important at the stage of the process you are at.

Originally Posted by Doug54
I reiterated that I wasn't in favor of divorce,
Only say things once. She heard you the first time.


Originally Posted by Doug54
W smiled at me and said something joking about the sleep situation and then added "I still feel conflicted sometimes" (about D).
Validate her emotions or "reverse babble" her "I can see why you would feel conflicted"

Originally Posted by Doug54
W seems to be softening.
She is not. Your behavior needs more changes.

Originally Posted by Doug54
it is very likely we'll be in the house together with the kids until at least next June, based on certain circumstances.
Do not waste your opportunity.



Originally Posted by Doug54
W mentioned that we were still sleeping in the same bed and that that might be the next domino to fall.
Have you made YOUR bedroom more manly?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Originally Posted by LH19
Yep Doug I am sure you dropped the ball mostly because you didn't know what you didn't know. How many LL experts are going to be available and hot to trot for a middle age woman with 5 kids? .0001% maybe?
Not bad. I LOL'd.

Originally Posted by LH19
Doug you really need to stop reiterated you don't want a divorce. She knows it. For you to change turn this around she needs to wonder where you stand.
Originally Posted by BL42
I agree w/LH. She knows where you stand. Stop saying it. If anything better she wonder if you've changed your mind.
Ok, so we'd gone two weeks in between sessions and the counselor basically started by asking each of us where we stood; if anything had changed. I'd more or less gone into the first session with guns blazing, saying we were both on the same page as wanting D. So the second & third session I responded to the counselor's question by saying I wanted to try to work things through. I didn't intend to paint a picture that I was begging or anything.

Originally Posted by LH19
So what is your plan? Fight? Throw in towel?
I definitely want to stay together. No bridges have been burned thus far. Many on this board have said a version of "if your spouse is coming around to you, you'll know in no uncertain terms." So, I guess I'll hope that happens while focusing on Doug. If it doesn't happen with W, then it doesn't happen.

Originally Posted by LH19
Great! You doing this for you or show?
I definitely would not volunteer with a hospice organization for "show." I'm hoping to help and it certainly can't hurt my own perspective of things, and life.

Originally Posted by LH19
Turn in what way? If it's MLC this will play out for many years. Like 5-7 years minimum.
Originally Posted by BL42
Don't bet on things turning on a dime. Sounds to me like she's serious but nervous about logistics and consequences with the kids on pulling the plug. Keep working on detachment.
Originally Posted by Vapo
No it fecking won't. In statistical terms the odds that this will turn on a dime in neglible. It is a marathon, not a sprint.
Ok, so everyone lost me here, or more likely it was my fault for poor phrasing. I meant that things have been quite decent between me and W lately, but that it could turn on a dime. In other words, things could go from sunny to dark due to MLC, warwardness, what have you. I'm trying to take her change in demeanor and "softening" with a grain of salt. It is making it a little more difficult to detach, though, as I told my IC. It's like LH said, 100 percent detachment would mean you're a sociopath.

Originally Posted by BL42
Sounds like you're doing well overall. Remember to keep improving yourself...keep reading, working out, becoming more attractive, GAL...etc.
Thanks, BL. This board has helped a *lot*.


Me:43 W:43
M:16 T:18
SD:21 SS:18
S:14 S:8 S:5
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