I came home one night and my ex had taken the kiddos and went to visit family 6 hours away, so everything was pretty quiet for the first time in over 15 years...
I remember the feeling of " F this....if this is truly the plan for me"....
I remember going outside and screaming at God to give me every Fing thing he had, because I wanted to know my breaking point....
the next morning, I was reading through some threads and right in front of me was an email addy for JackThreeBeans, that if anyone needed to talk 'off boards' to please contact him....
That changed my life....
Funny how things work out sometimes. Randomly grabbing DR off the shelf of my local library and then finding this board has done wonders for me in my situation. Not sure what state of mind I'd be in right now otherwise...still trying to cling to the MR? Having frequent relationship talks? Reading about the situations of others that have fully played out and getting direct advice addressed to me has been invaluable.
Originally Posted by Mach1
By the time I was able to post, there wasn't much going on in my life except the work on me....
Sooooo....
My first 4400 or so posts have been about helping others here....
And the reason I never had any threads here (until recently)...
Hopefully that has worked a little....
In my 14 years here, I've had the pleasure of helping a dozen or so marriages reconcile, yet better than that, I've helped many people reconcile with themselves...
Yes, you've been a lifesaver. I also like some of the ambiguous notes because they could be read either way - if I was desperate for "good news" to build upon, it could be construed that way as food for thought, or conversely, a gentle 2x4 for a reality check.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I have found that with newcomers....Shorter bulleted responses go over better....
Typically there is an information overload, and their eyes gloss over with the longer more explanatory posts...
So short and to the point until the brain stops shakin around a bit....
Plus...you don't really need me to tell you how to live your everyday life.
Next thing you know, you will be posting here asking if you should buy Charmin or Angel Soft...F that...
I tend to post more philosophical stuff, and allow you to THINK, and come to your own conclusions about your life....
MLC theory...
WAS theory...
LBS theory....
I don't discriminate between the helpfulness of bullets or long-winded life stories. As far as I'm concerned, anyone taking time out of their day to shoot me a thought in my thread is doing me a favor. The philosophical bites are certainly deeper and actionable in an abstract way. Kudos.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I couldn't imagine two years either....at that time....
Looking at two years when you are in it, isn't a pleasant thought....
IF you look at it as a whole, you will fail....
Just never eat an elephant whole...you eat it bite by bite...
However that was MY thing...doesn't have to be yours...
Yet you DO have to make a choice......
And stop allowing her to tell you who the F you are.....
Yes, day by day. But what choice are you referring to? Like an existential, "Get busy living or get busy dying"? Or more like choosing to stand or leave? Or live my life vs being stagnant?
As someone that ended up having a lot of sex in his situation, this advice is spot on. As we always say, being 100% sure she is not physical with anyone else is paramount! And then as BL said, if you cannot do AND still continue to work on detachment, then you need to be careful.
For me the sweet spot was to realize that she could walk at any minute, including 1 second after we had sex. That sex had no meaning related to her wanting a D. That it was just purely the physical act with little to no emotion behind it. In my case, it was really about her having a lot of pent up sexual energy due to her EAs with guys that were hundreds, or 1000s of miles away. AnotherStander and sandi (I believe) pointed out to me that likely she was fantasizing about her EAP while making love to me. That was a very sobering thought. One that did give me pause a few times.
But as BL said, the sex can, and for most LBS will, hurt your detachment. We've seen a lot of LBSs that have had sex throughout their situation with the WAS, some even while the WAS was sexually active with other people (SMH), and it is a very rare LBS that can do that and NOT attach significance to it.
BL is spot on with this post.
I remember reading one of your early threads and encountering the bolded part (above), and thinking about that in regards to my own situation. Yeah, it's not a pleasant thought, but whatever...what can you do?
Another thing I recall from probably the same thread, Steve, was when you got to a point where you weren't sure if you wanted the MR anymore yourself. I have had a surfeit of such thoughts myself recently - not actually putting real consideration towards being the one to leave, but an internal temperature check of marital satisfaction. And there's not much there. Like LH19 said, he was glad his EXW didn't actually waver in the face of her father's wrath, because that would mean he'd be stuck in a dead marriage today. I've been trying to gauge my detachment efforts from W by comparing interacting with her to a trip down to the mailbox (analogy courtesy of Mach1). I guess all this is to say that sex is losing any emotional significance...the last dying embers of the marriage are barely glowing.
Yeah I didn't bring that up for you to do anything, but so that you could see that sex for her is likely not the same as it is for you. At least if you are like most LBSs. Most LBSs see sex as a sign things are better or improving. The WAS sees it as a scratch to that itch. I had a counseling session with an anti-DB writer (not MWD), and I was telling her the situation where my W, in the middle of a late night R talk, had mentioned she wasn't attracted to me anymore. In fact, she even said she saw me in the same way as another guy we knew, that was not attractive to her at all. It stung. But then within 15 minutes I mentioned something about sex, and she actually said she wanted to! When I pushed her on it "Really??" (remember she had just compared me to this other guy that she found completely unattractive) she said "never mind!". This anti-D writer said "She is probably horny as ----!" So even though she found me unattractive, she was still wanting to have sex because whatever she was going through or doing had her horny.
As far as the instance where I was questioning wanting to stay in the marriage myself, that was nearly a year past BD, and 8 months into piecing and Ring. Things were actually going very well in the marriage, but I started to wonder if I had made a mistake in working to hard to save the marriage, rather than letting her pull the ripcord and ending it. I was a lot closer to walking away myself during that time.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
By the way, was that a reference to you in Ghostbusters before the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man appeared and they were like "The choice has been made; the Traveler has come"? That just popped into my head.
Not much to report. Had a pretty good weekend on the GAL front including several fun activities with the younger two kids. Wife has been running hot and cold. I think she's been stressed out about multiple things. She unloaded on me earlier and tried to slip a line in about me "never wanting the kids." I couldn't meekly validate that and had to say "That's not true." Interestingly, after that conversation (more like tirade) I had left with the kids (as planned) and she texted me "I'm sorry I was rude" which is definitely out of character during this MLC...her typical mode is selfish AF these days.
Trying to just take one day at a time. How was your weekend?
Not much to report. Had a pretty good weekend on the GAL front including several fun activities with the younger two kids. Wife has been running hot and cold. I think she's been stressed out about multiple things. She unloaded on me earlier and tried to slip a line in about me "never wanting the kids." I couldn't meekly validate that and had to say "That's not true." Interestingly, after that conversation (more like tirade) I had left with the kids (as planned) and she texted me "I'm sorry I was rude" which is definitely out of character during this MLC...her typical mode is selfish AF these days.
Did you validate anything she said?
What did you say when she apologized?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I did not engage at all like old Doug would have. I quietly allowed her to let off steam and nodded a few times. It was more of an overall, emotional rip job in which her mood and state of mind (overwhelmed?) definitely factored in. So, was it textbook verbal validation from me? Not quite. But it was certainly a 180 from how I would respond to that sort of thing in the past.
She apologized by text about 5 minutes after I left with the kids. That outing had already been planned, so it wasn't like I stormed out or anything. I simply wrote back "It's ok" and left it at that.
I think she was able to get several things done yesterday (in which I was out having fun with the younger kids for probably 5 hours total) and seems in a better mood today. However, I still don't really think my overall situation can be resolved without W getting a taste of life without me. Just gonna have to tread water since I don't plan to leave the home.
However, I still don't really think my overall situation can be resolved without W getting a taste of life without me.
Do you know when you are 100% most likely to reconcile effectively?
When you no longer care if you do or not.
That's the honest and sad truth. Reconciliation requires a level playing field, an even starting line. BOTH of you need to be willing to walk and to believe the other one will leave. That makes you something worth having.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Just gonna have to tread water since I don't plan to leave the home.
Yeah there is a famous saying around here. "Things need to get worse before they get better".
I did not engage at all like old Doug would have. I quietly allowed her to let off steam and nodded a few times. It was more of an overall, emotional rip job in which her mood and state of mind (overwhelmed?) definitely factored in. So, was it textbook verbal validation from me? Not quite. But it was certainly a 180 from how I would respond to that sort of thing in the past.
She apologized by text about 5 minutes after I left with the kids. That outing had already been planned, so it wasn't like I stormed out or anything. I simply wrote back "It's ok" and left it at that.
I think she was able to get several things done yesterday (in which I was out having fun with the younger kids for probably 5 hours total) and seems in a better mood today. However, I still don't really think my overall situation can be resolved without W getting a taste of life without me. Just gonna have to tread water since I don't plan to leave the home.
Actually ??
It's good that you have made yourself "safe" enough for her to vent...
Possibly work on the "it's ok" and replace it with "Thank you for sharing your thoughts..."
The better mood....???
Part of the bitchc switch thing....
They vent / spew / rant....
And within a few hours, it's like nothing happened and more than likely don't/won't remember...
It tends to be 150% pure raw emotion that is coming out....years of pent up anger without resolution and feelings that haven't been worked through or processed.
Keep being a safe place, as long as it isn't venomous...
Do you know when you are 100% most likely to reconcile effectively?
When you no longer care if you do or not.
That's the honest and sad truth. Reconciliation requires a level playing field, an even starting line. BOTH of you need to be willing to walk and to believe the other one will leave. That makes you something worth having.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Just gonna have to tread water since I don't plan to leave the home.
Yeah there is a famous saying around here. "Things need to get worse before they get better".
LH,
I re-read your initial situation thread and am convinced I see many similarities between your W and mine, from the cake-eating to the lack of being grounded in reality to the distance and doing most things separate. It's not a reassuring outlook but I'm glad to have a dose of reality on how these things often play out, rather than meandering around cluelessly.
As far as things getting worse before they get better...yeah, probably. I wonder what form that will take. I know for you, you said it was undoubtedly over when she told her parents. I know in my situation right now, W knows I won't "walk" because I've stated I'm not leaving the house.
It's good that you have made yourself "safe" enough for her to vent...
Possibly work on the "it's ok" and replace it with "Thank you for sharing your thoughts..."
The better mood....???
Part of the bitchc switch thing....
They vent / spew / rant....
And within a few hours, it's like nothing happened and more than likely don't/won't remember...
It tends to be 150% pure raw emotion that is coming out....years of pent up anger without resolution and feelings that haven't been worked through or processed.
Keep being a safe place, as long as it isn't venomous...
Have you read the 5 LL's yet ?
Don't remember if you have or not...
Appreciate the feedback, Mach. I've seen a correlation between how W seems to feel overall / how much she has on her plate, and how she acts towards me. Good mood / low stress = more outgoing & more interactions with Doug. She tends to curb the attitude with others even if she's not feeling it, i.e. she'll bite her tongue towards the older kids rather than let her mood dictate the interaction.
The part I bolded above is spot-on. I mean, there's no question. However, I feel like it's too little, too late for the MR. I don't plan to slam shut any doors with words or actions, but it really feels like W has moved on. But, I feel like I've gotten a lot better in dealing with things since I read DR and found this board, and I have IC today for the first time in three weeks (therapist was out of town). So there's that.
