As far as the rest of the exchange that resulted, obviously my stance is that they should never have happened. She is using MC to try to get you to cave (and this is why caving is a bad idea because if you cave on MC then just maybe you'll cave on nesting or some other thing). So it is hard to for me to give props.
What I will say is that she is trying to manipulate you. "Go to MC!" So she can try to get you to cave on her other plans. "I am conflicted." If you continue to play ball with what I want it might save the marriage. (HINT: It won't.) "It looks like we have to stay put for now." If I act like I am resigned to the way things are then maybe Doug will give me more of what I want.
Believe NOTHING she says. That literally means NOTHING.
What Steve said. She is trying to manipulate you. Also her saying she is conflicted. She is not. She know exactly what she wants and that is you out of the picture. Period. Again what Steve said, believe NOTHING she says, NOTHING! Spouses in these situation will lie, steal, manipulate like there is no tomorrow. Again I caution you to remain vigilant to not find yourself on the wrong end of a restraining order.
Traveler nailed it. Caving is not a strong move. Therefore not attractive. Weak moves do not command respect. Always pick commanding respect over being nice.
My problem during parts of the relationship was that I tried to command too much respect to the point I came off as an a-hole. Furthermore, perhaps "caving" was not the word I should have used there. On my own, I agreed to go...knowing it wasn't going to be a big deal other than a wasted co-pay.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as the rest of the exchange that resulted, obviously my stance is that they should never have happened. She is using MC to try to get you to cave (and this is why caving is a bad idea because if you cave on MC then just maybe you'll cave on nesting or some other thing). So it is hard to for me to give props.
That's very fair, and I can already tell I'm going to have a tough time on the nesting BS if and when it comes around because I'll be thinking of the kids getting to see both parents in the house. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the reasons not to nest from this board...and I would *not* be a happy camper if I found a used rubber in the trash of the co-apartment.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
What I will say is that she is trying to manipulate you. "Go to MC!" So she can try to get you to cave on her other plans. "I am conflicted." If you continue to play ball with what I want it might save the marriage. (HINT: It won't.) "It looks like we have to stay put for now." If I act like I am resigned to the way things are then maybe Doug will give me more of what I want.
Believe NOTHING she says. That literally means NOTHING.
I've mostly been ok on refusing to believe anything she says, mainly because everything gets cancelled out at one point or another. There's no consistency. If you read my latest post, I'm mostly resigned to having to settle in for a bit of a ride. I have offered W the door and meant it, but she won't leave the kids (which, honestly, would be quite painful to see her make that choice).
Being a jerk, butthole, etc is NOT commanding respect. Commanding respect is confidence, not arrogance. It is standing up for yourself, not stepping on others. It is knowing what you will tolerate and what you won't, and enforcing those boundaries though calm, cool action on YOUR part. Lots of people confuse commanding respect with demanding respect. It sounds like in your pre-BD self you were doing the latter, not the former.
Please do not gloss over my point about not using 180s as an excuse to break good DBing principles. Lots of LBSs struggle with that.
I think caving is the perfect word. You were insistent that you were done with MC......then you went.
I do like what you said about your W being conflicted. She is conflicted about what she wants vs. the cost. But that she doesn't want to be with you is in cement. Very good self-awareness and awareness of reality there, so kudos.
My biggest concern I am seeing (180 opportunity) is that you want to be patted on the back for doing everything right, even when you do something that is against advice. THis is your situation, not ours. So do what you want, what you feel is right, and if we don't like it we will let you know, but that is what we are here from. But do not take it personally. All of the feedback and advice is from a place of wanting to help. I can't speak for everyone that posts on this forum, but I certainly take no personal joy out of 2x4ing someone. But I know in my own situation that the 2x4s, in hindsight, were more helpful than the attaboys.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve is very wise. It would do you good to listen to him. He has helped me very much over the years.
I have been IHS for almost 4 years. This can give you some idea of how long a time-line we are talk9ng about. Where S and I are now is much better than before but it is nowhere near what would be considered an R. We are cordial and friendly. That's the extent of it.
I'm open to any possibility at this point. How I got here is by distancing myself without being rude or unkind or unfriendly. Not asking questions. Talking less. Meditating. Realizing I can only control my own actions. Going to IC. Reading etc. It's a tricky balance but it is possible, and these are all things you could try as well.
Traveler nailed it. Caving is not a strong move. Therefore not attractive. Weak moves do not command respect. Always pick commanding respect over being nice.
My problem during parts of the relationship was that I tried to command too much respect to the point I came off as an a-hole. Furthermore, perhaps "caving" was not the word I should have used there. On my own, I agreed to go...knowing it wasn't going to be a big deal other than a wasted co-pay.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
As far as the rest of the exchange that resulted, obviously my stance is that they should never have happened. She is using MC to try to get you to cave (and this is why caving is a bad idea because if you cave on MC then just maybe you'll cave on nesting or some other thing). So it is hard to for me to give props.
That's very fair, and I can already tell I'm going to have a tough time on the nesting BS if and when it comes around because I'll be thinking of the kids getting to see both parents in the house. Don't get me wrong, I've read all the reasons not to nest from this board...and I would *not* be a happy camper if I found a used rubber in the trash of the co-apartment.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
What I will say is that she is trying to manipulate you. "Go to MC!" So she can try to get you to cave on her other plans. "I am conflicted." If you continue to play ball with what I want it might save the marriage. (HINT: It won't.) "It looks like we have to stay put for now." If I act like I am resigned to the way things are then maybe Doug will give me more of what I want.
Believe NOTHING she says. That literally means NOTHING.
I've mostly been ok on refusing to believe anything she says, mainly because everything gets cancelled out at one point or another. There's no consistency. If you read my latest post, I'm mostly resigned to having to settle in for a bit of a ride. I have offered W the door and meant it, but she won't leave the kids (which, honestly, would be quite painful to see her make that choice).
Being a jerk, butthole, etc is NOT commanding respect. Commanding respect is confidence, not arrogance. It is standing up for yourself, not stepping on others. It is knowing what you will tolerate and what you won't, and enforcing those boundaries though calm, cool action on YOUR part. Lots of people confuse commanding respect with demanding respect. It sounds like in your pre-BD self you were doing the latter, not the former.
Please do not gloss over my point about not using 180s as an excuse to break good DBing principles. Lots of LBSs struggle with that.
I think caving is the perfect word. You were insistent that you were done with MC......then you went.
I do like what you said about your W being conflicted. She is conflicted about what she wants vs. the cost. But that she doesn't want to be with you is in cement. Very good self-awareness and awareness of reality there, so kudos.
My biggest concern I am seeing (180 opportunity) is that you want to be patted on the back for doing everything right, even when you do something that is against advice. THis is your situation, not ours. So do what you want, what you feel is right, and if we don't like it we will let you know, but that is what we are here from. But do not take it personally. All of the feedback and advice is from a place of wanting to help. I can't speak for everyone that posts on this forum, but I certainly take no personal joy out of 2x4ing someone. But I know in my own situation that the 2x4s, in hindsight, were more helpful than the attaboys.
Steve is very wise. It would do you good to listen to him. He has helped me very much over the years.
I have been IHS for almost 4 years. This can give you some idea of how long a time-line we are talk9ng about. Where S and I are now is much better than before but it is nowhere near what would be considered an R. We are cordial and friendly. That's the extent of it.
I'm open to any possibility at this point. How I got here is by distancing myself without being rude or unkind or unfriendly. Not asking questions. Talking less. Meditating. Realizing I can only control my own actions. Going to IC. Reading etc. It's a tricky balance but it is possible, and these are all things you could try as well.
The question is this: what do you want to do?
Best
IW
IW.....I have asked that same question a couple times myself....
To summerize....
My wife did this so I did this...
My wife did this so I did that....
It's early still though....
Hopefully he can see how much focus is on her instead of himself....
I also did an in-home thing, for two and a half years....
That's logic worthy of Aristotle right there. So...you did in-home separation. I was going to ask because I believe you said W still lived with you for a year after filing, which doesn't make sense any other way. I'm guessing you didn't really "maintain separation" but still acknowledged it in writing? I guess that's how these things may play out.
I am not sure what you mean here? If you mean did we have a separation agreement the answer is no. She wanted to nest and legally separate but I opted for divorce. I wanted a clean break.
Originally Posted by Doug54
How did you know when it was time to wave the white flag?
When she told her parents I knew there was no going back. Her dad really laid into her and she almost wavered. I am glad she didn't because I would be in a dead end miserable marriage right now.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Did you shed any tears at that point?
Oh yeah! The first trip they took without me I was fine for the first 4-5 days. Then on the sixth day out of nowhere I went to the floor and cried uncontrollably for a half hour. I literally couldn't move.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I feel like I'm desensitized since this has been going on for months, but it would still be a gut punch if W up and left tomorrow.
No way around it buddy you are going to have to go through the stages of grief. Google it if you are not familiar with it.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I know you've said that your EXW has settled for a bit of a schlub (are they now married?)
Nah. I had to swipe left on her on Bumble a couple of months ago. It's either done or she is back to monkey branching. About a month ago I had to go to a party and my son was nervous about seeing him there.
Originally Posted by Doug54
and that she misses the kids when they're not with her.
I think she does. I don't give them up often on my time but when I do she takes them every time.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Do you think she regrets splitting up?
Pure speculation here Doug. I think she may regret not trying harder. Our marriage was definitely broken but we had a lot in common and had fun together. It definitely needed a major overhaul. If she came back today and wanted another chance I would say no. I have zero faith she is capable of remorse and doing the work necessary to start over. Would I 100% write her off forever? Nah. We had some really good years together and were able to produce 2 AMAZING kids that will keep us bonded forever.
What Steve said. She is trying to manipulate you. Also her saying she is conflicted. She is not. She know exactly what she wants and that is you out of the picture. Period. Again what Steve said, believe NOTHING she says, NOTHING! Spouses in these situation will lie, steal, manipulate like there is no tomorrow. Again I caution you to remain vigilant to not find yourself on the wrong end of a restraining order.
Thanks for the reminder, Vapo. No, it's not a fun situation to be in. As I said before, all outward appearances would indicate a regular functioning family, but inside there's an absence of trust and a hollow marriage. This board and posts like your definitely help me keep things in perspective.
As I said before, all outward appearances would indicate a regular functioning family, but inside there's an absence of trust and a hollow marriage.
Makes you wonder how many other couples you think are happy and functioning are actually in the same situation behind the scenes. Not something to take pleasure in, but you're not alone.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
I think caving is the perfect word. You were insistent that you were done with MC......then you went.
I do like what you said about your W being conflicted. She is conflicted about what she wants vs. the cost. But that she doesn't want to be with you is in cement. Very good self-awareness and awareness of reality there, so kudos.
My biggest concern I am seeing (180 opportunity) is that you want to be patted on the back for doing everything right, even when you do something that is against advice. THis is your situation, not ours. So do what you want, what you feel is right, and if we don't like it we will let you know, but that is what we are here from. But do not take it personally. All of the feedback and advice is from a place of wanting to help. I can't speak for everyone that posts on this forum, but I certainly take no personal joy out of 2x4ing someone. But I know in my own situation that the 2x4s, in hindsight, were more helpful than the attaboys.
I don't think I'm looking for a pat on the back so much as seeking feedback from the board members on the update I posted. Perhaps the "flawless victory" attempt to add levity rather came off as too much mustard instead. But to your point, 2x4's are perfectly valid when warranted. That's probably the whole point of the board - to be a place where neophytes to these circumstances can see the advice and input of veterans who have been there before.
I appreciate your comments, of course, and particularly the addendum that only I can be the one to address my particular situation. DR talks about trying different responses and actions to see what works, and discard or continue correspondingly. Honestly, I don't know if there's a perfect strategy out there for me at this point, other than "doing me," improving myself, and detaching as much as possible...to the extent possible short of separate living arrangements.
As I said before, all outward appearances would indicate a regular functioning family, but inside there's an absence of trust and a hollow marriage.
Makes you wonder how many other couples you think are happy and functioning are actually in the same situation behind the scenes. Not something to take pleasure in, but you're not alone.
I literally had that same thought as I typed. Or, the number of unhappy married couples that aren't actually planning to divorce, but just playing out the string for the sake of the kids, fear of the unknown, etc. And living in just as much misery (or almost) as a WAW/LBS circumstance.
