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Wolfman Offline OP
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Traveler thanks. Have a good time with the gf.

BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better. I spoke with a couples therapist and are trying to get us in this week. Gf is onboard with it. Like so many of you said, our communication stinks.

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Originally Posted by Dawn70
Ok, so maybe it is just me, but what I understand you're saying is that she basically taught you that if you buck her she’s going to create drama and if you give in, she’ll back down and “behave” for lack of a better word. Again maybe it is just me but that sounds terribly immature and doesn’t bode well for your future interactions. It also screams manipulation. Think about that…..y’all disagree so she throws a fit and is nasty to you. You give in so she’s fine, even complicit about how sorry she is you missed work (never acknowledging that you chose to miss). Seems like a situation where you have to spend a lot of time walking on egg shells.
She is very immature. I am hoping therapy for us will help with that. It happened just yesterday about something we talked about. The minute I disagreed with her about something right away she starts I don’t want to argue, just forget about it. I said it’s not an argument we can talk about things we don’t agree on.
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Wowza. So basically like a toddler throwing a tantrum, if you give her what she wants , she will stop licking and screaming. Basically, you have a 4th child
Pretty much. Yet if you were to ask her she would say I am stubborn and difficult. At times I can be, but I don’t give in if it’s not worth it, or we compromise. But that is not often.

KML let address some of those questions. Division of labor. She makes all the baby food from scratch and she pumps. She does most of the house cleaning. When I get home from work I usually take the baby right away, when I am home I usually do all the baby feedings, she prepares the food I feed him. I change his diapers and at night when she bathed him I was his dishes and load the dish washer. Her comment about me was more because when my son is around I spend time with him and I am not helping every second then.
As far as growing up for her. She is the youngest of 3 l. She was babied also explained did not have a good relationship with her siblings. Even to this day. Does t get along with her mother, the only person she gets along with is her dad. Her dad spoiled her as a little girl. The other thing, my gf has a very exotic look and is very attractive. When we would go out, the minute she was not next to me a guy was hitting on her. I’m not kidding I had guys high giving me at times in clubs. So, she has this thing that she “knows” she is good looking and we guys do whatever she wants. So, she is used to getting her way a lot. Gotta run.


M:42 XW:41
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Ugh yeah - sounds like Daddy’s little princess had different plans for her life than getting knocked up by a guy who already had two kids and may not be able to keep her in the lifestyle to which she would like to be accustomed and feels owed.

The fact that she doesn’t get along with any other family members besides her dad seems like a red flag.

Hopefully therapy can help the two of you learn to communicate better, and set more reasonable expectations for your relationship. I’d also think long and hard about whether you ever want another child - if the answer is no, you may want to consider a vasectomy.

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Originally Posted by kml
Ugh yeah - sounds like Daddy’s little princess had different plans for her life than getting knocked up by a guy who already had two kids and may not be able to keep her in the lifestyle to which she would like to be accustomed and feels owed.

The fact that she doesn’t get along with any other family members besides her dad seems like a red flag.

Hopefully therapy can help the two of you learn to communicate better, and set more reasonable expectations for your relationship. I’d also think long and hard about whether you ever want another child - if the answer is no, you may want to consider a vasectomy.
The family thing I didn’t know till later on in the relationship. But then again in the last 2 years I had a lot of problems with my messed up family. So, I can’t go by that either. I’m hoping the therapist will help iron some things out.

Want to share a bit of positive news, don’t want to always talk about the bad. Today my gf came to my son’s basketball game. To support him. So that was nice to see. Have a great Memorial Day everyone!!!


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
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Wolf, I see that as very positive--you filled up her love tank a bit by putting effort in to make her GRE happen, and she responded by trying to reschedule the GRE AND was at your son's game. I hope your weekend had some joy in it!

Originally Posted by Wolf
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
Originally Posted by BL42
You're learning how she'll react, but what is the take-away? How will that inform your own actions?
Originally Posted by Wolf
BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better. I spoke with a couples therapist and are trying to get us in this week. Gf is onboard with it. Like so many of you said, our communication stinks.
You say "OUR" communication stinks, but you focus on changes for HER. When you say "I tell her what to do" and "She goes against that" to me there are problems on both sides: (1) Given she's your equal, your partner, "telling her what to do" should rarely to never happen and (2) When you do order her around she should actively say "NO!" and tell you where to stick it rather than a dismissive response and then passively doing something else. Hopefully, in therapy, the conversation is less about who's right or wrong in such situations and more about how you can interact better going forward.



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Hi Wolf, I hope you are continuing to work on your side of the relationship issues and continuing to see reciprocation from her in some form as you do so. You're not in an easy place but also not at a hopeless one.



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Wolfman,
Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by Wolfman
It’s like if I tell her to do something or what to do, she absolutely does not like that and will go against it. Not very mature, I know, but I am learning. I appreciate everyone talking to me.
You're learning how she'll react, but what is the take-away? How will that inform your own actions?
Originally Posted by Wolfman
BL you asked what is the take away. That she needs how to learn to communicate better.
I was surprised when you answered the take away is that "she needs to learn..." (italics mine).

Originally Posted by kml
As for the future, you BOTH need better communication.
Originally Posted by Traveler
You say "OUR" communication stinks, but you focus on changes for HER.

I agree with kml & Traveler that you both need to work on communication. It's a two way street.

My take on the GRE / work disagreement is it seemed like a miscommunication. Perhaps she didn't do a great job on conveying the importance and precise schedule/logistical need, but I'm not sure you did a great job with understanding that need and ensuring no conflict before you signed up to work on the weekend. The GRE Test sounds like a very important thing - not a spa day with her friends - and your extra work sounds important as well. I think the two of you need to communicate more effectively to prevent those confusions in the future. Maybe a Google or Apple Calendar where she can map out GRE Test Saturday at 8PM (or AM) and then you know not to schedule over? The online calendars where very effective for me and ExW previously, and now very helpful for myself and S7 & D3 activities. Anyway, just an idea.

In terms of my original "take away" comment, I was referring to how you plan to handle the toddler meltdown until they get what they want approach you said she's taking. Obviously giving the kid a cookie every time instead of a firm boundary causes issues down the line and is not sustainable. You need to learn to deal with that, though also balance against the situation - GRE Test is more important and perhaps understandable than some lesser ask.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Want to share a bit of positive news, don’t want to always talk about the bad. Today my gf came to my son’s basketball game. To support him. So that was nice to see. Have a great Memorial Day everyone!!!
Glad to hear the positive update! It sounds like it means a lot to you she would support your son, which is completely understandable. You may want to tell how how important that was to you and how happy it made you to give positive reinforcement to her action.

Hope you had a good Memorial Day, and have a good Father's Day this coming weekend as well.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
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BL and Traveler thank you for your thoughts. When I said she needs to work on communication I am too. I am trying to just stick to the facts and stay calm. One thing I am seeing more and more that I don't like, when we have a conversation about something and we have a difference of opinion she starts to get loud and then trys to gaslight and project. Example, I have my son for 2 uninterrupted weeks in the summer. I asked her that we should talk about those 2 weeks, where we would both feel comfortable. She said she wanted to think about it first. Thats fine no problem. After about a week I asked her did she think about those days. She replied, I don't care you pick the weeks. I said are you sure? She said she doesn't care. I picked the 2 weeks, one right when school ends and the other at the end of the summer. Let me back track just for a second, A month earlier she said she wanted to go away on vacation the last week of June. We looked numerous times and the airfare and everything was just too expensive, so that week was out. I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week. Just on Friday she asked if she could work a little the last week in June. I said sure, just want to let you know I have my son that week. Granted I will take blame for not telling her immediately which weeks I picked. But I literally told my ex the week before which weeks I was taking our son. Then she had the nerve to say, I didn't speak to her about which weeks. I said I asked you and you said you didn't care. Her reply was, you should have told me which weeks you were thinking of and ran it by me. I said but you told me you didn't care. She said you still should have told me. i said you are right I should have told you the dates right away. Next was just amazing. She said, I wanted to work that week and now I can't. I said why not? She said you have your son. I said I know, what does that have to do with you working. Her reply so degrading, how are you going to be able to take care of both? I said thats a little hurtful that you think I can't take care of both of our kids. She replied, i didn't say that and that is your own insecurities. I said its not my insecurities, you said I can't take care of both. Then she said, look how you are talking to me. I said I am just responding to what you are saying. She said yuo are getting all defensive. I said not defensive just trying to have a conversation with you. She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation. And we ended the conversation.

So lets take a look at this. I am being blamed for my son coming and she didn't think he should come that week.
That I can't handle 2 kids and then says I have insecurities. Gaslighting
When i said it won't be a problem for me to handle the 2 kids and said she can go to work. Yet said she can't now. Projecting
I am getting to the end of my rope with this relationship. She is very immature and doesn't know how to work things out, she wants to always run from these kinds of conversations.
Oh I forgot to mention, I actually booked another vacation at the end of the summer and wanted to surprise her but had to tell her I have one for us. I told her because how upset she was getting and yet still seemed ungrateful because its not when SHE WANTED TO GO. Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.

Have a field day everyone!!! LOL

BL thank you for the memorial day and father days wishes. Hope you had a great day both those days too.


M:42 XW:41
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D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
BL and Traveler thank you for your thoughts. When I said she needs to work on communication I am too.
What are you doing to actively improve your communication--physical books, podcasts, therapy, life coach, YouTube videos, etc? You could always post here daily and take on-board advice.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said, I wanted to work that week and now I can't. I said why not? She said you have your son. I said I know, what does that have to do with you working. Her reply.. how are you going to be able to take care of both? I said thats a little hurtful that you think I can't take care of both of our kids. She replied, i didn't say that and that is your own insecurities. Gaslighting. I said its not my insecurities, you said I can't take care of both.
I agree she implied you couldn't take care of both kids, then tried to backpedal by saying she didn't and blamed it on your insecurities. Icky! Frustrating. I found an article in a Psychology Today, "When It Might Not Be Gaslighting" They say the term doesn't apply to a guilty defendant lying to avoid punishment, but rather requires a motive to undermine a victim's sense of reality. Wherever her intent, she certainly seems to get defensive and have trouble communicating.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
She said I am making her upset and she doesnt want to talk about his anymore. I said if this conversation is upsetting you we can end this conversation. And we ended the conversation.
Subtle, but note her statements control her ("I don't want to talk about this anymore"), but your statements control her, ("We can end this conversation.") Does she need your permission to end the conversation? Consider more "I" statements and fewer "We" statements.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I told her it was just too expensive and i would look at other weeks for us to go away. Evidently I didn't realize she was still trying to figure something out for that week.
Why? If she were your child, telling her it was too expensive would be the end of it, but she's your equal partner so that's just your feeling. Look for affirmative consent. If it's not there, you are just stating your feelings and preferences, and there's been no agreement.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Oh I forgot to mention, I actually booked another vacation at the end of the summer and wanted to surprise her but had to tell her I have one for us. I told her because how upset she was getting and yet still seemed ungrateful because its not when SHE WANTED TO GO. Yet its just me who works and is paying for it.
When there are control and communication issues in a relationship, I'd cut down on surprises. "Surprises" often means the person doing the surprising chooses everything. As much as you think she sounds entitled because you're offering her a vacation and she's ungrateful, you sound entitled because your expect her to go and expect her to express gratitude.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Then she had the nerve to say, I didn't speak to her about which weeks. I said I asked you and you said you didn't care. Her reply was, you should have told me which weeks you were thinking of and ran it by me. I said but you told me you didn't care. She said you still should have told me. i said you are right I should have told you the dates right away.
I have a hard time resolving these two statements--first, you seem upset she has the "nerve" to raise this point, then you agreed she was right. Which do you believe?

Originally Posted by Wolfman
So lets take a look at this.
You two are struggling. You vent about it here about it every couple of weeks. You are both "trying"--but what will you do to up your communication game? If she were here I'd be asking her that! Options--physical books, podcasts, therapy, life coach, YouTube videos, etc. Posting here more regularly and taking on-board feedback such as my affirmative consent or BL42's shared calendar and giving her lots of positive feedback about attending your son's game may help. We'd love to help more.

Wolf, you want a change, be that change.



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Traveler thank you for the feedback. Honestly, I use this board to help me communicate. I need to come to this board more often i think.
As far as the "we" statements. i only asked because she was upset and I didn't want to continue to upset her, thats why I asked if she wanted to end the conversation. How would I use "I" there? I feel like that would be controlling, with the we, I am giving her a voice.
The affirmative consent, I am a little confused there.

The "surprise" is where she wants to go and for how long. The only thing that is different is the date, I got it for $250 less. Im trying my best when I am the only one who works and pays child support. I try and give her everything that I can, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.

I am trying to be the change, baby steps


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Moved out: 8/18
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Please take what I’m about to say with the grain of salt which I intend because I may be way off base here but the fact that you say you are trying to give her everything emotionally, physically, financially may be part of the problem. You’ve indicated before that your girlfriend is very spoiled and to me, your statement says you are continuing that trend. I agree with what the gentlemen said before me that you both need to work on communication. You can only control your part of that equation.

I get the sense from your writing that you are a defensive guy. You spend a lot of time explaining your side and when someone comes at you with a differing opinion, you go into “but, but, but” mode trying to explain why you’re right.

No relationship is perfect and they all take work. I do appreciate that you seem to recognize the need for better communication with your gf but I wonder if treating her more like an equal might be part of that. You always talk about how you are the breadwinner and even in your most recent post, as Traveler pointed out, you kind of treated her like a child in the exchange about a vacation being too expensive. I get you are the only one working so the financial burden is on you but why not work on budgeting and include her in those talks and decisions. Just because she’s not adding $$$ to the bank account doesn’t mean she’s not contributing. Look at all the money y’all save on child care by having her at home with baby. That’s money you are not out.

Again, take all that with a grain of salt because I may be way off. Just one gal’s opinion.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
6 grandkids
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