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DnJ #2934237 05/23/22 03:52 PM
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Most people who go through age related hormonal changes and hit their big decades (30, 40, 50, etc.) have “normal” transitional issues. What most of us here witness is not that. My two cents is people with healthy coping skills don’t throw everything away, flip the script on their entire lives, suffer massive confusion and have complete breaks from who they once were.

If you look at the research of the happiness curve, we hit a life low at 46/47 (no matter educational background, socioeconomic status, etc.) I am almost 47 now and lately I feel something a little different. Am I going to flip the table on my life or use this time re-evaluate how I spend the rest of my time? It will be the latter for me. For my ex, it was the former. He was 46 when he gave me the “I need to find myself” speech and truly flipped the script on his life. Personally, I do believe the extent of trauma and how people process that is a large part of the reason for this. People survived the Halocaust, lost all their family and rebuilt their lives. Some people just don’t have the coping skills to dust themselves off.

I do think my ex always had issues related to childhood trauma. I think he lacked the self awareness to heal himself in a healthy way. And, I think he did not have a single adult in his life who was capable of being a role model to him. I think in cases of bad childhoods, 1 person can help course correct these people.

I definitely wanted to understand why it all happened. I think this was my mind trying to put closure on it. I think I was looking for a way to cope with it all. Do I believe my ex is happy? No. Do I know for sure? No. But my younger S who still sees him 50% and truly is a Switzerland personality has said he thinks he is depressed. Do I care? Only as it relates to my kids.

I’m at a point where I am thankful I have been released from it all. It was horrible what he put us all through. I focus on healing and helping my kids heal.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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HaWho #2934242 05/23/22 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HaWho
Most people who go through age related hormonal changes and hit their big decades (30, 40, 50, etc.) have “normal” transitional issues. What most of us here witness is not that. My two cents is people with healthy coping skills don’t throw everything away, flip the script on their entire lives, suffer massive confusion and have complete breaks from who they once were.
agreed
Originally Posted by HaWho
If you look at the research of the happiness curve, we hit a life low at 46/47 (no matter educational background, socioeconomic status, etc.) I am almost 47 now and lately I feel something a little different. Am I going to flip the table on my life or use this time re-evaluate how I spend the rest of my time? It will be the latter for me. For my ex, it was the former. He was 46 when he gave me the “I need to find myself” speech and truly flipped the script on his life. Personally, I do believe the extent of trauma and how people process that is a large part of the reason for this. People survived the Halocaust, lost all their family and rebuilt their lives. Some people just don’t have the coping skills to dust themselves off.
My husband was 3 months away from turning 46. He told me he didn't know how many years he had left. We're not talking "good" years. He meant years, period. There's no history of early death in his family. His grandparents lasted well into their 90s, both parents still alive. When I pointed that out he said, "You never know!"

I was about 45-46 when I went through feeling the need to re-assess, but I went into IC, I didn't blow up my family. It was my issue to sort through, not involving those I loved, except quite tangentially.

Originally Posted by HaWho
I do think my ex always had issues related to childhood trauma. I think he lacked the self awareness to heal himself in a healthy way. And, I think he did not have a single adult in his life who was capable of being a role model to him. I think in cases of bad childhoods, 1 person can help course correct these people.
Oh yes. Mine too. Difference is mine had those adults but not until later. A major one was my uncle and exh went off the rails after my uncle died.

Originally Posted by HaWho
I definitely wanted to understand why it all happened. I think this was my mind trying to put closure on it. I think I was looking for a way to cope with it all.

Yes, I relate as well. Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. I'm not interested in any repeat performances here.

Originally Posted by HaWho
Do I believe my ex is happy? No. Do I know for sure? No. But my younger S who still sees him 50% and truly is a Switzerland personality has said he thinks he is depressed. Do I care? Only as it relates to my kids.

I’m at a point where I am thankful I have been released from it all. It was horrible what he put us all through. I focus on healing and helping my kids heal.

Amen sister!


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"There's something awfully screwy going on around here!"

Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
DnJ #2934244 05/23/22 05:17 PM
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My husband was 3 months away from turning 46. He told me he didn't know how many years he had left. We're not talking "good" years. He meant years, period. There's no history of early death in his family. His grandparents lasted well into their 90s, both parents still alive. When I pointed that out he said, "You never know!"

Almost the definition of a MLC is the sudden awareness of one's own mortality. I do think this hits most men younger than most women, and rightly so - their life expectancy is shorter, and they're more likely to know peers who have succumbed to an unexpected early death.

My ex ALWAYS had a fear of mortality - even though his grandparents lived to their mid-90's and mostly healthy until the end. This might be related to a childhood friend who died of a lightning strike at 12. This fear ramped up I think as he turned 40, and later again as he approached 50.

I have longevity on both sides of my family and as a woman, always just assumed I would have a similarly long life. It's only now, in my mid-60's. that I have started to think about bucket list things. But then, I didn't have any female acquaintances dropping dead of heart attacks in their 40's or 50's.

The bottom line, though, is not the MLC but how one reacts to it. Our exes COULD have taken up a new hobby, bought a Corvette, gotten a tattoo, or any number of other "benign" MLC activities. They CHOSE to cheat instead.

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DnJ #2934248 05/23/22 06:10 PM
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Good Morning

Originally Posted by OwnIt
…groupthink that I think exists here, is that someone is a fool to take their ex back (mentally ill, depressed, cheating, whatever). I don't think that D. I hope that some day you will have that chance if you want it then.

Thanks.


As bttrfly so very aptly said, MLC is a different animal. Until I was thrown into this world, I had no idea. No clue this even existed. I would have absolutely believed differently, and had even less charitable/accepting views than those that were shared here.

This has been the single most inspiring, knowledge and wisdom gaining, unwanted experience of my life. And I’d not change it.

I am on my 27th thread. I believe they are organized, well thought out, detailed, accurate, and captured the evidence. These threads have been written honestly and openly. Plenty is my personal journey - becoming who we are meant to be.

I believe in MLC. I’ve seen it! My analysis is no longer intense. The intense part was coming to see this for what it truly is. I poked so many holes in this situation, trying, working, to find a less drastic (and more hopeful) explanation. Alas, it is what it is. If your world view is different, that’s fine. Different views are normal and needed; and true! If your world views cannot / do not allow for this, that is ok too.

I’ve beaten myself plenty in past years looking for faults and blame. My regrets are very very few. I’ve even tried to blame myself more, take on the burden of this, lol, like a good dutiful husband, however it’s not mine to carry. Even J had only vague notions of which she blamed me about. In truth, she blamed the kids - specifically my third oldest, for her unhappiness. If you remember how horribly she treated my poor son. So much projection from her. As a woman, mother, person - J went right off the rails. And she treated her children like her Mom treated her.

J’s shopping with just a bra is one of many behaviours she displayed. That is not the summit of her mountain of irrational and emotionally unstable behaviours. Nor is her math skill deterioration. By the way, as I pointed out, her loss of math skills was a sudden shift during conversation. She become a different aged girl, with the skills of that age. Imagine how much torment one needs to be in to be so engulfed and consumed that one’s emotional pressures spills into their highly cognitive abilities. Plenty of MLCers are high functioning, doctors still practice for example. J gets dragged down to some incredible depths.

Anyhow, an update on J. Funny, the universe placing this in my lap, given the last few days of posts.

I was working Saturday morning on my flooring and purging of stuff when S23 called about coming out for a visit on Sunday (yesterday). We made arrangements, he and GF would arrive around 2:00, stay for supper, and return home that evening. He would drop off Mom’s birthday gift before coming to my house.

S23 is organized and punctual, and arrived pretty much at 2:00 pm. I showed him the new and improved floor, my new kitchen speakers - which we took for a test drive. Lol. He was most impressed with the sound clarity and how loud it can be. The three of us went outside and sat on the deck, enjoyed the sunshine, and we discussed a variety of topics. The wedding planning and the upcoming social/dance such were obvious topics.

There is some family drama from GF’s side that is spilling out. Remember her cousin that died in the house fire a few months ago? The Dad of that lad is GF’s Mom’s brother. And there is another brother. Those two men, have been at odds for years. The one Dad forbid the other from coming to his son’s funeral. This lead to a major blow up. The other Dad not having forgiving the first for something he said years ago - like over a decade. All bubbled up and boiled over against the backdrop and grief of a dead son/nephew.

They are both behaving like @sses, so there is plenty of finger pointing that could be done. However, the second Dad, the uncle of the lost lad, told S23 and GF that they have to get the other Dad to forgive him or he will not come to the wedding. This doofus then dragged in his sister, GF’s mom, into the battle. GF’s mom told him that she is not getting involved, that she loves both of them. Son and GF also gave a similar message / boundary of not getting embroiled in their petty war. Son and GF even asked, what if we do tell uncle he has to forgive you, and he doesn’t or won’t. “Then I still won’t come to the wedding.” Sheesh. What a feud!

There are two wives, maybe of these two, but honestly I kind of got lost this is a large family. Anyhow, these two wives hate each other. GF has a seating chat that placed all these hating folks well spaced apart. And just this week, another two relatives are now hating each other. Lol. GF doesn’t think she can arrange the seating to accommodate these two goobers along with the rest.

Unless my intuition is in the fritz, this visit was also looking for some guidance, validation, and assurance. I told GF to not worry, these people are grownups - or are supposed to be - if they cause a fuss kick ’em out! Your wedding day is about you! It is not a stage for others to air and fight over their petty grievances. Decade old grievances that they certainly are not going to resolve in a matter of days.

I told her, from my view, J and I could sit at the same table. We could dance as the parents (depending upon J). I have no problem. They both know this. They both have trust, respect, and faith in me. Which brings me to J’s update. (This is a bit convoluted, so bear with me as I work to present it in an organized manner.)

Son and GF’s visit with Mom lasted 5 minutes. Son only wanted to drop off the gifts and head over here - see her for like 30 seconds. Mom was outside when they arrived and OM was in the house. She asked them to stay, and son told her no they were coming over here. As he was trying to leave Mom was telling him: “I miss you so much”, “Please stay”, “Please come inside”, “I never get to see you and the other kids”. And such.

Son does not want to go in that house. He does not like OM. And he is allergic to cats and such. Mom having cats and the close to 500 house plants and birds and whatever else.

Then the bombshell:

Mom and son spoke on Tuesday. 5 days ago. She had been texting him, relentlessly, for weeks prior like she does S21 every now and then. “I miss you”, “Please call”, “I need to hear your voice”, etc. These texts are during the day and son works. After so many texts he texted her back her that he would call her in a bit. Son doesn’t jump to her drum, and has little to say to his Mom.

Tuesday’s call: J asked if son had a change of heart about OM attending the wedding. She knows that the wedding invitations are sent, plans are all made, but she wants OM there. So she wants home allowed come; just add one more to the mix.

Now son, basically hates OM. I thought about it and hates is probably too strong a word, as it brings to much passion to this, however son is not indifferent and wants nothing to do with OM. J of course has/had this idea of stepdad - which all the kids firmly rejected.

Anyhow, son realized Mom just isn’t getting it so he told her very plainly. “I do not want OM there. Period. He is not allowed.”

J went off. She told son that this position/decision hurts her. She wants/needs him there. She will have no one there. Her tirade was all about her, and how this is affecting her. How this hurts her. (Basically, just what you’d expect to happen from an emotionally immature and insecure person.)

So, J wasn’t pleased. Son and GF stuck to their plan and boundary remains strong. None of them want anything to do with OM. The guy is a slug. Seriously. A dim witted slug. Such an affair down.

Next bomb:

Mom calls son back. Is OM allowed at the wedding social? (The social is a dance / socializing time for friends and family of the couple to show support and raise funds, for those that are wondering.) Son told mom that the social is a public event and he cannot stop OM from attending. That was basically the end of that call.

I corrected son, and said the social is a private event and they are selling tickets. Admittance is not open it is restricted. Which brought up a discussion of J selling tickets. I asked why did they allow Mom to sell tickets.

A bit more back story here (sorry convoluted). The wedding party is S25, S21, D19; and GF’s twin sister and her older brother. GF’s twin is taken lead on organizing things (well, when GF isn’t smile ). GF’s sister was assigning duties for the social - drink ticket sales, 50/50 raffle, silent auction, door tickets, bar, and clean up. Weeks ago, to my surprise I was assigned duties. A schedule was sent out and I had some shifts, along with the other parents.

Nope. Not going to happen. I call son and inquired as to what is going on. I’m not part of the wedding party. Parents should be guests, not staff. And one needs to ask someone to volunteer before assigning to some job.

I have two friends coming out to the social and I am bring grandma. The sister had me working the entire night. Like, here you go grandma and friends that travelled two hours to be here and rented rooms, I’ll see you at the end of the night. Nope. Not going to happen.

Son, didn’t know. GF didn’t know. Parents were not suppose to be involved in the social, we are supposed to be guests. Son said he’d look after this. The next schedule was better. It did have J running the silent auction all night thought. An interesting fact I thought at the time. (Remember this fact, it comes up soon.)

So back to ticket sales. I mentioned my misgivings about having Mom selling tickets to the social. Son and GF gave up their power over admittance. OM isn’t that big a problem. It’s the drug dealers and other sketchy folks J is likely to sell to. Her new friends. Turns out Mom selling tickets wasn’t supposed to happen either.

Weeks before the tickets were even printed. Before selling tickets was even a thing. J sold a bunch of ticket to her son’s social. She went around town and told about the social and sold tickets to it. Tickets she didn’t even have. What the f___. Just wow!! There are a limited number of people allowed in the hall, and therefore a limited number of tickets.

At that time, GF’s sister was looking after things as the maid of honour is to do. She doesn’t know manipulative J. And did she get played! J got listed as a ticket seller, wormed her way in through GF’s sister, and got so far into the process it would have been difficult to undo what Mom has done. (I’m concerned of the riffraff she may have sold to. These are the folks that required police action, and an ambulance, at son’s safe grad. If you recall me being security at that event.)

Both son and GF do not want J involved. Didn’t want her selling any tickets.

On top of that. J is on the schedule. I asked about her being the only parent on the new revised schedule. Well, J brought up silent auction. Son and GF didn’t want one. But sister couldn’t say no to J, since she doesn’t know her, and she is a woman of 51, and all that. J told them, no problem she will look after it. She will man the booth the entire night. She will find donation for the auction. J has enlisted help from GF’s mom to find some donation from her town/area.

Oh, the tangled web of those master manipulators.

Back to Tuesday. Mom calls again. Since OM isn’t welcome she doesn’t feel welcome and isn’t coming to the social. The very thing she has sold ticket to, and been promoting. Yep, she is no longer going to attend.

That F__ed up the silent auction. The auction they didn’t want anyhow. But it is underway. Son and GF found other helpers and have Mom off the schedule now.

Then J mentioned she isn’t going to attend the wedding since OM can’t.

Yep, the wedding of her son. The one she went dress shopping for with all the girls. Bought a dress, shoes, and jewellery for.

She won’t be in any pictures.

Sigh. Such an emotional response on her part.

Oh well, damage done. She is off the schedule. Her duties are gone. She escalated things over OM. Even if she changes her mind, she has to face down what she just declared.

So for the moment, I’ll be the only parent from this side supporting and attending. Just like how it’s been over the last 4+ years.

Son, GF, and I did acknowledge the problem involving J in stuff. The lack of responsibility and trustworthiness bring about such strife. One simply cannot count on her. She thought she had them over a barrel and could force OM into their lives. She played a guilt-trip, she started a silent auction, she pre-sold and has a bunch of tickets, and is trying to use it against my son and soon to be daughter-in-law. They did good. They switched gears, and got Mom out of things.

I am both surprised and not surprised at J’s behaviour. Pretty sure the next month is going to be quite a ride for her. I’ve no idea if she’ll relent or not, attend or not. Not my monkey. And not my kids’ monkey either.

Have a great day.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2934250 05/23/22 06:56 PM
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D,

Sorry to hear about all the drama J is creating for your sons wedding. Looks like the step forward she made recently was followed with a handful back.

T


Me55 (53@BD)
W52 (50@BD)
S22 (20@BD) S20 (19@BD)
Married 23 Together 28
BD 9/29/19 (came home from weekend fishing trip and wife had moved out with no warning)
W filed 10/19/20 (Informed me via text)
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DnJ #2934251 05/23/22 07:58 PM
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As I was reading, up until the part where I read that J had sold tickets, I was rooting for the kids to just elope. Now I'm worried that J may have pocketed the money from the ticket sales for her own uses.

DnJ #2934254 05/23/22 08:54 PM
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I wouldn't think she'd pocket it for her own uses, but I do think she might use it as a tool to get her way ...

Here's the thing: bad behavior seems to always come out at weddings and funerals. Oh, the stories I've heard in my life from friends and acquaintances! Not MLC-dependent either, as can be shown in GF/Fiancee's two uncles. I still remember some pretty horrendous horror stories from my own wedding: a minor one from a cousin of mine who had some serious issues and the rest from exh's side of the family. Some of those shenanigans led to my exh deciding he was no longer willing to talk to his father. Our son was what, 2? when exFIL discovered his existence, this some 7 years after our wedding. To my current knowledge, exh has never reconciled with exFIL, and I don't blame him. I completely understand his reasoning; however, when you cut off, you still have to heal from what caused you to make that decision, not just assume it's a done deal because the person is now out of your life. There's always a price to pay.

Hold on to your seatbelt, it's gonna be a bumpy ride, D.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"There's something awfully screwy going on around here!"

Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
DnJ #2934255 05/23/22 08:58 PM
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I wouldn't think she'd pocket it for her own uses

Addicts will do all kinds of things you wouldn't think they would do, and I'm not confident that drug addiction isn't part of the picture here. OM had a history as I recall.

kml #2934256 05/23/22 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kml
Quote
I wouldn't think she'd pocket it for her own uses

Addicts will do all kinds of things you wouldn't think they would do, and I'm not confident that drug addiction isn't part of the picture here. OM had a history as I recall.
truth, but she's got a history of using money to manipulate. remember the kids' inheritance? she refused it to one of the boys unless he would pay her some attention IIRC. D, was that right?


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"There's something awfully screwy going on around here!"

Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
DnJ #2934258 05/23/22 10:14 PM
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T, yes a bunch of steps backwards. I hope she pulls it together and attends the wedding.

kml, you are correct, OM and his son are involved in drugs. J’s involvement or non-involvement has yet to be confirmed.

bttrfly, your recollection is correct as well. Yes, J played games with son regarding his inheritance. She tried to coerce son into visiting and paying attention to her. This son, the one getting married.

Would she steal ticket monies? I don’t know. I’d be surprised and I’d not be.

She certainly is digging a hole right now. She needs to put the shovel down.


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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