Yes, there is a part of me that would love to stay in R. But another part of me says this is out of fear, and she can't give me what I need, so why should I? I'm aware that change can be infectious, I change, maybe it will put a thought in her head. So I'm trying to stay brave, outwardly accept D is inevitable, but with a small hope. In the current state, D is best. IF (that is a big if), she stopped some of her behaviours, came to me about reconciliation, I'd be open. And actually, her current state of cold interactions, mixed with small talk, is actually refreshing. But I don't want to cling to that hope. What I do know, and what I want in the future, is an intimate relationship based on respect, whomever that will be. That much I'm clear on.
The other aspect is trying to figure out what 180 means, and what I am to do. Taking the advice from everyone here, it seems to be focus on what I want to change, not what she wants to change. This is the hard part for me, and IC helps. I can say that physical exercise really helps to lift the mood.
What makes it all hard, is the background noise of sorting out D. She's now moved from anger to sweet emails about the path forward. It'll be interesting, because most of what she proposes does work for me. The view on finances I dont, and she'll be getting the "I need to get legal advice before I reply". I get it, I'm not to care about her reaction. I'm just finding it all very draining.
toughtimes, a lot of us LBSs struggled with the "she is being nice, she likes me!" and the "she is being mean she hates me!" thing.
The key is that you do what is best for you and your kids. Her reactions are immaterial.
But please have a high bar for her to return. sandi used to say a WW needed to be remorseful for their waywardness. Lots of WSs have returned the LBS because the A with OM flamed out. Coming back to plan B, as a fall back, is not what you are going for here. You seem to have a handle on this, but then you say things like "I get it, I'm not to care about her reaction. I'm just finding it all very draining."
Want to hear something frustrating and uplifting at the same time: you get to CHOOSE what her reactions do to you. I know that is a shocking revelation, but it is true. When a LBS comes to an epiphany like that it can be freeing. I say it is frustrating because most LBSs struggle because they are too reactive and impulsive. When my W would react poorly to me, I struggled with that too. But the minute I remembered I was in control of my own thought and feelings I could easily separate them from her reaction. This is where detachment is money. Detaching your thoughts, feelings and responses from her words and deeds. Not easy, admittedly, but if you keep working on it the first time that you have that first "I don't care about her reaction" moment, it will be so empowering and freeing that the next time you are in a similar situation it is just that much easier!
You've got this toughttimes. You are doing a lot of things right. Clean up a few more things and you will become a DBing ninja!!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
The other aspect is trying to figure out what 180 means, and what I am to do. Taking the advice from everyone here, it seems to be focus on what I want to change, not what she wants to change. This is the hard part for me, and IC helps. I can say that physical exercise really helps to lift the mood.
It's actually a little of both. Are there things she complained about you that are valid?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
This is where detachment is money. Detaching your thoughts, feelings and responses from her words and deeds. Not easy, admittedly, but if you keep working on it the first time that you have that first "I don't care about her reaction" moment, it will be so empowering and freeing that the next time you are in a similar situation it is just that much easier!
You've got this toughttimes. You are doing a lot of things right. Clean up a few more things and you will become a DBing ninja!!
Thanks. Yeah, the fact I'm finding it difficult shows I'm not fully there. What has helped recently is the STBXW found a legal book which talked about detachment, and she's now doing the same. She still has anger in her tone, but she has backed off quite a bit. It might also mean a tougher negotiation . . . But one thing at a time.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
It's actually a little of both. Are there things she complained about you that are valid?
Yes and no. The valid complaints are around supporting the kids, so I'm working to lift that. Communicating, I'm trying to improve, but she has the same problem. Again, putting things on email helps. The last issue is not being close and vulnerable. I don't know how that could ever be addressed in DB scenario.
TT you may want to check out the detachment thread. It get the feeling you are not quite sure what it means. You don’t read it in a book and do it. It’s a state of mind that eventually will happen. It’s rare anyone becomes detached in IHS.
Yes and no. The valid complaints are around supporting the kids, so I'm working to lift that.
Great... so when she comes heated at you about the kids.. you can remember this and answer with kindness. Doesn't mean that you don't deserve time with them. But understanding and validating her anger should lead to a different approach.
Originally Posted by toughtimes180
Communicating, I'm trying to improve, but she has the same problem. .
Keep the focus on you. Doesn't do any good to say she has it too.
Originally Posted by toughtimes180
The last issue is not being close and vulnerable. I don't know how that could ever be addressed in DB scenario.
Actually vulnerability has alot to do with communication. It has alot to do with listening to how she feels and using validating sentences. Brene Brown talks about it quite a bit - if you want to check it out.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
TT you may want to check out the detachment thread. It get the feeling you are not quite sure what it means. You don’t read it in a book and do it. It’s a state of mind that eventually will happen. It’s rare anyone becomes detached in IHS.
What do you mean you don’t support the kids?
Specifically, not cooking enough. I do spend tons of time with them, since BD I've shuffled my work to look after D2. Not because it helps her, but I get more time. I do support them with extra-circular activities, and I've recently volunteered at my S sports day. So I can manage that.
I'm mixing detachment with 180. What I'm trying to say, is how to 180 with respect to vulnerability and communication in the current climate? Valeska19 has called it out, validation, which I'm doing and focusing on, and listening (when she wants to talk). I feel the real work for me can only happen after IHS.
For detachment, we've talked about this quite a bit in my multiple threads were I would worry about her reaction, instead of focusing on what is good for me. And yeah, IHS makes it hard. As I said, outwardly I've never been upset, or argue, despite how I feel on the inside.
I chatted with a different L and he recommended I leave the house (in Aus it doesn't make a difference to claims). I'm thinking for my mental health, I'm going to have to. But for that to happen, I need to work out a parenting plan.
she'll be getting the "I need to get legal advice before I reply".
I would like to suggest that you think about rewording this. I am not sure how, but I believe there is a better way. A way to sound stronger. Less emphasis on the legal aspect. By all means, get all the professional input needed, but you do not need to let her know that.
Couple ideas: "Once I receive your proposal, I will need time to review...."
"I think is is important during the negotiations that we both have ample time to read and respond to each others...."
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
she'll be getting the "I need to get legal advice before I reply".
I would like to suggest that you think about rewording this. I am not sure how, but I believe there is a better way. A way to sound stronger. Less emphasis on the legal aspect. By all means, get all the professional input needed, but you do not need to let her know that.
Couple ideas: "Once I receive your proposal, I will need time to review...."
"I think is is important during the negotiations that we both have ample time to read and respond to each others...."
Those are great. Though I don't think mentioning that he has legal representation is awful either.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
As I said, outwardly I've never been upset, or argue, despite how I feel on the inside
As an avoidant, you aren't comfortable directly showing that you're upset, but after having a heated conversation with your XW, you drove off and didn't attend the school event. After being upset by her card, you trashed it in a place where she was likely to see it. Your STBXW noticed these displays of emotion and called both of them out.
All of us act out in one way or another when under pressure. IHS is a crucible. You're being given the perfect opportunity to test changes. If you can validate now, you can validate anywhere.
