Need advice: wife of 10 years wants out (2)

[BL42]

PeterB,

Recall that I have a boundary that I refuse to hear things that I recognize are putting me down and things that are of no benefit to me. What she said fit both criteria, so I told her to excuse me from that discussion and that she was better off discussing with her support system.

Well done! That's a perfect boundary enforcement. You're right...not reason to put up with that.

And the above reaction was all she needed. She blew up and started screaming.

Very predictable response. Little children often lash out and have temper tantrums when things don't their way. You have to train them to learn this is not acceptable behavior...as you did here.

I tried to remove myself physically, but she chased me down continuously (like she would do in the past during our R). At one point she shouted - "I am very smart, and I know what you know". Then she followed it up by cursing me for making her unhappy and "letting me go". And she shouted that I am trying to run away from blame and now blaming her for the D. She was unleashing self-righteous anger at me.

You should seriously consider audio or video recording these interactions. Ask your L what your local laws are on this. Many states, mine included, have "one party consent" laws meaning as long as you're part of the exchange you're legally allowed to record it. If W is lashing out verbally abusive or physically chasing you down that's a major red flag. Don't allow things to escalate and take on a potential domestic abuse charge (valid or not) which could do major damage to your standing in the house/kids, job, reputation...etc. Start recording, walk away calmly, make it clear you're not threatening in any way.

I hadn't spoken a word after she blew up.

Great control. Good job. Way to keep your cool.

So, what has happened is that "she knows I know". Things have been back to our strange normal since (including sex) and she has been blowing mostly positive.

Do you still want to have sex with her, knowing she's having an affair? Is it just physical pleasure, or are you hoping to win her back that way or stick it to OM? As others mentioned be careful about STDs.

The point that begs action at this time is that if she truly knows that I know about her A then I think it is time to talk to her about it.

I agree with Traveler, Ready2Change, and SteveLW. Fewer words; strong action.

Otherwise, she might take me for granted and her disrespect will grow.
Ummm...sorry man but she's already having an affair. You can't be much more disrespectful to someone than that.

[quote=PeterB]Should I be verbose and explain to her I'd like her to confess?

Definitely do not be verbose. You don't want to have an hour long discussion about her affair, and asking her to confess, and pleading for her to stop. I made that mistake as have many others here.

LH19's post was fantastic by the way. Go back and read that a dozen times.

[SteveLW]

Also agree with BL, well done on setting a boundary and adhering to it.

[PeterB]

If yes, how should I broach the topic with her? Should I be verbose and explain to her I'd like her to confess? Any rules to follow while discussing such a precarious topic.

Actions speak loader than words. I would not talk to her about it. But if you must, get yourself in the right frame of mind.


RobX had the right mind set:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079636#Post2079636

Excellent post. I had read it earlier when you posted it on my thread and good to read it now again when it has become more relevant to my sitch.

This is golden: "You tell her trust is based on actions that are consistent. You don't trust her because she hasn't been consistent". This can be applied at any time or space. She got a restaurant dish for me but out of the blue attempted to belittle me a little later. Pretty darn inconsistent.

I am not going to talk to her about it for now. Will take it slowly. I thought this was urgent but now that I have thought over it, I feel it is not. I am planning up my next big GAL adventure as we speak .

[Traveler]

Peter, and STIs? You know that she’s slept with other people. She’s told you so. Some STI‘s are life endangering. Some STIs are annoyances for life. Why aren’t you facing that?
Testing is quick and easy. I had that conversation when I was in newcomers and standing.

[PeterB]

In her mind she would be like, is this guy so desperate that he tries to sweep things under the rug?

Would "sweeping it under the rug" be a fair assessment?

It is not. I am not there yet where I can forgive her for starting the A but even from the beginning, I have been willing to see if we can rebuild with the fact that she cheated. I did not see the need to bring it up with her yet (in the last 3 months) as it could lead to unmanageable situations (recall that we live together, parent an autistic child and my responsibilities as the head of the household has pretty much not changed) and can complicate even the consideration of reconciliation. That's not to say that a reconciliation is guaranteed even from my side, let alone hers. I am yet to understand how I can identify where piecing starts but disclosures could be important before that happens. And I know that now is not the time to believe her because although she has been blowing positive, she has also been blowing pretty negative and seems to be ready to explode at any time.

Do not share with her WHAT you know.
Do not share with her HOW you know.
You can and should (at the right time) share that you DO KNOW.

"We both know that is a lie. If you are willing to speak the truth, I will listen."

If you choose sex, read up on being safe with casual sex partners who are simultaneously sleeping with others. Common precautions include condoms and regular STI screenings. As they say, if you aren't ready to talk about safe sex, you're not ready to have it!

I got tested and everything is fine. Just to reiterate, she has not been physical in the last 4 months. Her EA+PA started when she had a short duration travel and has not met him since. I am 100% sure that if OM was a short distance away, she would have separated (if not D by now) and started living in with him. I am sure she has been sexually active over the phone in the past (based on observed suspicious behavior). Currently I think she speaks to him only occasionally and she is much more into him than he is into her (he is single, probably lives a promiscuous life and she knows it).

Now you know you figured it out because she's been dropping hints.

I figured it out just a few days after BD without her dropping any hints at all, at first purely by analysis of observations on her pre-BD behavior. Then a friend told me what he saw when she was on vacation and that validated my suspicions. She started dropping (very subtle) hints only about a month ago after one day I told her she was physically distant on the very day she returned.

Now she knows your response was to ignore it, continue to patch things up, and continue having sex. The curtain has been pulled back. Are you proud of your choices? Were they made out of desperation or something else?

It's a little less dramatic than that. I made a deliberate decision not to bring it up with her and I am I glad I did because it has given me the time and space to not only to focus on myself but also detach from the emotional impact of her A (I had trusted her strongly all throughout our M). Refer back to my first comment in this reply where I mentioned some of the constraints I have to work under.

[PeterB]

Peter, and STIs? You know that she’s slept with other people. She’s told you so. Some STI‘s are life endangering. Some STIs are annoyances for life. Why aren’t you facing that?
Testing is quick and easy. I had that conversation when I was in newcomers and standing.

I did get tested recently btw. You messaged just before I responded to your earlier post so I am copy-pasting the relevant sentence here:

I got tested and everything is fine. Just to reiterate, she has not been physical in the last 4 months. Her EA+PA started when she had a short duration travel and has not met him since.

I know that she has not got physical with anyone else since then (Dec 2021). She is also in some sort of delusional love with the OM. I won't get into the specifics to avoid TMI, but rest assured you'd be shocked.

[PeterB]

I tried to remove myself physically, but she chased me down continuously (like she would do in the past during our R). At one point she shouted - "I am very smart, and I know what you know". Then she followed it up by cursing me for making her unhappy and "letting me go". And she shouted that I am trying to run away from blame and now blaming her for the D. She was unleashing self-righteous anger at me.

You should seriously consider audio or video recording these interactions. Ask your L what your local laws are on this. Many states, mine included, have "one party consent" laws meaning as long as you're part of the exchange you're legally allowed to record it. If W is lashing out verbally abusive or physically chasing you down that's a major red flag. Don't allow things to escalate and take on a potential domestic abuse charge (valid or not) which could do major damage to your standing in the house/kids, job, reputation...etc. Start recording, walk away calmly, make it clear you're not threatening in any way.

Thanks for bringing this into my consciousness. I have not felt that she would get vicious enough to try to screw me over but perhaps it's best not to take that for granted, especially now that the exposure of an A is involved (even though the exposure is unspoken and indirect).

I hadn't spoken a word after she blew up.

Great control. Good job. Way to keep your cool.

Thanks. This used to be quite hard initially but I'm getting better at it. Still not perfect as I have to work against my own unconscious tendency to talk too much.

Do you still want to have sex with her, knowing she's having an affair? Is it just physical pleasure, or are you hoping to win her back that way or stick it to OM? As others mentioned be careful about STDs.

The A started and physical stuff happened in Dec 2021 during a short duration travel. Since then, she has not met him physically or had any casual contact with other men. I don't care at all about sticking it to the OM and it is certainly not a way to win her back (sex won't get her back even it was).

Otherwise, she might take me for granted and her disrespect will grow.
Ummm...sorry man but she's already having an affair. You can't be much more disrespectful to someone than that.

Golden . Su*ks but true.

Should I be verbose and explain to her I'd like her to confess?

Definitely do not be verbose. You don't want to have an hour long discussion about her affair, and asking her to confess, and pleading for her to stop. I made that mistake as have many others here.

I am totally done with pleading. Pleading lasted for a week after BD. Any requirement to confess would be to see if we can consider a joint reconciliation (heal together, if you will). If she does not stop then it will anyway lead to D and I am preparing myself to face that. What I am clear is that I will only stay married to someone who respects and loves me. If she is builds that love and respect then it could work, otherwise no.

LH19's post was fantastic by the way. Go back and read that a dozen times.

8 more times to go.

[kml]

I got tested and everything is fine.

Just a medical reality check - IF she had acquired an STD, hasn't had further contact with OM, and you tested once and were negative - that STILL doesn't mean she couldn't give you an STD. No STD is 100% transmissible in any one sexual contact. So until SHE has been tested, you still might be risking contracting an STD from her. Some (like herpes and HIV) may be asymptomatic. So I would recommend, from a strictly medical point of view, that you should not have unprotected sex with her without HER getting tested first.

[Valeska19]

I got tested and everything is fine. Just to reiterate, she has not been physical in the last 4 months. Her EA+PA started when she had a short duration travel and has not met him since. I am 100% sure that if OM was a short distance away, she would have separated (if not D by now) and started living in with him. I am sure she has been sexually active over the phone in the past (based on observed suspicious behavior). Currently I think she speaks to him only occasionally and she is much more into him than he is into her (he is single, probably lives a promiscuous life and she knows it).

You just can't be sure of this. The best way to move forward is to assume that she is and to protect yourself.

[Kind18]

So, a few days ago she started a conversation and then said something 'good' about a significant early phase of our R. In reality she was putting me down hard in a subtle way to achieve two goals. 1st was that she was revising that phase to bolster the narrative that she is a better fit with her AP. 2nd was to get a reaction from me which would confirm her suspicions that I know about her A. Recall that I have a boundary that I refuse to hear things that I recognize are putting me down and things that are of no benefit to me. What she said fit both criteria, so I told her to excuse me from that discussion and that she was better off discussing with her support system.

And the above reaction was all she needed. She blew up and started screaming. I tried to remove myself physically, but she chased me down continuously (like she would do in the past during our R). At one point she shouted - "I am very smart, and I know what you know". Then she followed it up by cursing me for making her unhappy and "letting me go". And she shouted that I am trying to run away from blame and now blaming her for the D. She was unleashing self-righteous anger at me.

You know what Peter?

This is excellent news.

Her blowing up, getting angry, trying to drag you into a discussion - it proves that what you are doing is working.

IMHO, you’re DBing like a boss - Coming here for advice first, not engaging, not arguing, extricating yourself from discussions etc.

She is reacting the way she is because your DB is working. She is pissed off that you don’t seem to care and she is pissed off that you’re making it hard for her to decide what to do. She wanted a quick exit stage left, but instead she’s worrying that someone else is going to get you and wondering why she can’t push your buttons any more.

I’d take this whole thing as a positive development. You’ve done great 180’s here - from begging to legging!

Whatever you do, keep it up. No discussions. No talking about her affair. Don’t give a hint about what you’re thinking. No acknowledgment you know anything about an affair, nor show any care about anything she does. No relationship talks, no arguments, no anger, no shouting, just a smile no matter what and keep busy. Every time she tries to pin you down for something, have an excuse READY TO GO. “Sorry, I organised to meet a guy from Facebook Marketplace about a bike. I’m going out shopping for hiking boots. I want to go for a run before the sun goes down. I’m getting beer with a friend. I promised (your son) a walk.”

ALWAYS have an exit strategy planned in advance. She wants to pin you down for a R talk and an argument because she wants to confirm you’re a shitty person and feel better about leaving. Don’t give her the chance.