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Quoting @LH19 from here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2913132#Post2913132

Originally Posted by LH19
She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.

You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.

- Is there any specific action you recommend?
- Anything to make this realization faster?
- Anything to make this realization more effectively understood?

My constraint is IHS and parenting our special needs child. I am his always-on therapist so need to with him or be at home quite a bit. Still doing plenty of GAL but not meeting / unable to meet new people - is that important in the above context?

Btw, even though I want the MR to be saved, I am unsure if I really care whether she thinks she has a safety net or not.

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Peter,

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to speed up the process. She’s on her own journey and own timeline. GAL like a madman is your best option.

Sorry to hear about your sons special needs.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don’t chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.” ~LH19
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Originally Posted by PeterB
- Is there any specific action you recommend?
- Anything to make this realization faster?
- Anything to make this realization more effectively understood?

My constraint is IHS and parenting our special needs child. I am his always-on therapist so need to with him or be at home quite a bit. Still doing plenty of GAL but not meeting / unable to meet new people - is that important in the above context?
.


Detach. The more you get out of her way - the sooner she can see if this is what she really wants. If you can let go w/o anger and w/ validation - she can process things faster. Will it get you the result you desire - who knows. But if you don't - it will definitely slow down the process.


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

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Originally Posted by PeterB
Quoting @LH19 from here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2913132#Post2913132

Originally Posted by LH19
She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.

You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.

- Is there any specific action you recommend?
- Anything to make this realization faster?
- Anything to make this realization more effectively understood?

My constraint is IHS and parenting our special needs child. I am his always-on therapist so need to with him or be at home quite a bit. Still doing plenty of GAL but not meeting / unable to meet new people - is that important in the above context?

Btw, even though I want the MR to be saved, I am unsure if I really care whether she thinks she has a safety net or not.
My thought in your first thread is that you are overthinking things bigly.

The best way for the realization to be understood is for it to be real.
The fastest way is for you to start being consistent.
And the specific action recommended is the one consistent with your values.

Otherwise you're being someone else and you will be at odds with yourself. She'll know. You'll know. No one will like it.


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
My thought in your first thread is that you are overthinking things bigly.

You are quite right. A little bit about me - I almost always speak elaborately when talking to anyone on just about anything. I use lot of words and long sentences. I have the ability to think deeply on pretty much anything and do that very fast - it could be a matter of technology or a human situation. I have pretty low EQ. I am analytical on everything, a realist and problem-solving oriented (the last one has led to R conflicts that made no sense to me). These are deep character traits, which often leads to overthinking. The reality of having to cohabit and do many things just like a regular married couple is making it hard to control my DB efforts. I am actually actively trying to stay in the present and avoid overthinking. I know it is working but I have some ways to go.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
The best way for the realization to be understood is for it to be real.
The fastest way is for you to start being consistent.
And the specific action recommended is the one consistent with your values.

Good thing is, now I am aware of these things. It also indirectly implies that there are no shortcuts. Could use reminders every now and then smile.

My question about specific actions were more related to GAL activities or handling tactical situations at home. For example, I am able to do many new activities diligently and I am really motivated but I am unable to meet new people. I don't know if that is required for a highly effective GAL. I just reevaluated my understanding of how to handle post-BD / pre-D tactical situations and I think I am doing okay regarding specifics. And I have a vast amount of golden words within this DB forum to guide me.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Otherwise you're being someone else and you will be at odds with yourself. She'll know. You'll know. No one will like it.

Another good thing is that I don't get the feeling that I am trying to be someone else. I do feel the changes and the organic nature of the changes. I have not felt imposter syndrome but might have to put in some effort to ensure that I am not fooling myself. Did my workout activity regress earlier in life? - yes, several times. But it feels different this time. And this time around I also have the self-forgiveness tool to use during implementation slip-ups. That has really helped.

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Quote
A little bit about me - I almost always speak elaborately when talking to anyone on just about anything. I use lot of words and long sentences. I have the ability to think deeply on pretty much anything and do that very fast - it could be a matter of technology or a human situation. I have pretty low EQ. I am analytical on everything, a realist and problem-solving oriented (the last one has led to R conflicts that made no sense to me). These are deep character traits, which often leads to overthinking.

Peter - have you ever considered that you might be on the spectrum? Not saying that this excuses your wife's affair, it definitely doesn't - but it can lead to miscommunications and misunderstandings in a marriage, especially if it's not known.

You might consider seeing a therapist just for you, to figure this out. Even if you don't end up saving your marriage, knowledge could help you in future relationships.

You mention that your son has special needs, and that you work with him a lot. Pardon me if I've missed this information in your last thread, but does W work outside the home? I think you referenced having a home office, so do you work from home? Is that allowing you to be the primary parent with your son?

If she works outside the home and you get more time with son - well, it is a sad and sexist thing but I have often seen here that working wives don't respect their stay at home dad spouses. On some level, they want to be home with their child while their husband is off bringing home the money. I'm not saying it's fair, or right, and it's definitely sexist. But even when the woman chooses her career, resentment can build.

If you divorce, what do you need in order to be able to continue putting in the time with your son's treatment? Sounds like you're doing a fantastic job. (Bear in mind, also, that having a child with a serious illness is a HUGE risk factor for a divorce. Some partners just can't handle the pain, or want to escape the difficulties of daily life with a handicapped child, or handle the grief differently than their partners. You likely are the "I'm gonna dive in and fix this" type, and she may have wanted more acknowledgement of her sadness or pain over your child's condition. Or she may just want to spend time with affair partner where she doesn't think about the pain associated with your child's condition. )

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Originally Posted by kml
Quote
A little bit about me - I almost always speak elaborately when talking to anyone on just about anything. I use lot of words and long sentences. I have the ability to think deeply on pretty much anything and do that very fast - it could be a matter of technology or a human situation. I have pretty low EQ. I am analytical on everything, a realist and problem-solving oriented (the last one has led to R conflicts that made no sense to me). These are deep character traits, which often leads to overthinking.

Peter - have you ever considered that you might be on the spectrum?

I have considered that soon after my son was diagnosed. I am quite confident I am not on the spectrum. This opinion is through self-analysis, not a professional opinion, but I have to mention that I now have a professional level of competency at observation, therapy and diagnosis (gained through hard work and validated by my son's professional interventionists). I will consider getting a real professional opinion though.

Originally Posted by kml
You might consider seeing a therapist just for you, to figure this out. Even if you don't end up saving your marriage, knowledge could help you in future relationships.

Regardless of whether I am on the spectrum or not, this will help for the future so I can discuss problem behaviors and situations. I certainly intend to get on a regular schedule but right now I find myself satisfied by my GAL efforts, ongoing handling of situations at home and of course, participating on this forum (this forum brings a value in my sitch that no IC can provide).

Originally Posted by kml
You mention that your son has special needs, and that you work with him a lot. Pardon me if I've missed this information in your last thread, but does W work outside the home? I think you referenced having a home office, so do you work from home? Is that allowing you to be the primary parent with your son?

Both of us work from home. Both of us go to office a few times a month. We share parenting responsibilities. His intervention needs are almost completely handled by me (there is little appreciation of that from my WW because she is in denial about lot of his limitations and potential prognosis). She is the primary for one particular intervention, but I do the planning and teaching for that (to her, nanny, and grandparents when they are around).

Originally Posted by kml
If she works outside the home and you get more time with son - well, it is a sad and sexist thing but I have often seen here that working wives don't respect their stay at home dad spouses. On some level, they want to be home with their child while their husband is off bringing home the money. I'm not saying it's fair, or right, and it's definitely sexist. But even when the woman chooses her career, resentment can build.

She is a rockstar at her work and she is compensated accordingly. Deservedly, gets validated again and again. I was super proud of that. During conflicts I wanted her to bring her management skills and poise from work to the home, but it never happened. In the last year she did mention several times to me that now she earns as much as me and even mentioned that to my father (which he found rather odd). Taking the example of my family, I had always considered my earned money to be hers as well, but the reverse was not remotely true. She has been clear that her earned income is her own money only. A source of conflict was she that she would frequently complain about spending too much for the household (the specifics of these complaints are too ugly for me to retain in my head). At some point last year, this type of complaint gave me so much anxiety that I created a spreadsheet which showed that I spend 2.5 times as much as her per month on the household (without counting my paycheck expenses like family health insurance and other family benefits). She went quiet when confronted with numbers, but she repeated the same complaint after a few days as if the spreadsheet never happened. The complaint continued regularly btw smile. Btw, my income is twice as much as her because I have a significant variable component in my compensation. She registers that. But now after she became WW, I am doubtful as to what her attitude would be if she really made more or equal to me.

Originally Posted by kml
If you divorce, what do you need in order to be able to continue putting in the time with your son's treatment? Sounds like you're doing a fantastic job.

This is a major worry for me. If I lose time with him, the most important implication is losing out on observation time, and an inability to get proper feedback from the times he spends with her. Regular observation is the key to plan and fine tune his interventions. Not able to observe during infrequent leisure travel is okay. But it is not okay if I don't get accurate feedback, or I am only able to observe 50% of the time. Post BD I've realized that she appears to have convinced herself he is going to be okay in the long-term because according to her he is making amazing progress that will get him there.

Originally Posted by kml
(Bear in mind, also, that having a child with a serious illness is a HUGE risk factor for a divorce. Some partners just can't handle the pain, or want to escape the difficulties of daily life with a handicapped child, or handle the grief differently than their partners. You likely are the "I'm gonna dive in and fix this" type, and she may have wanted more acknowledgement of her sadness or pain over your child's condition. Or she may just want to spend time with affair partner where she doesn't think about the pain associated with your child's condition. )

The divorce statistics for ASD parents is quite grim. That shows how much selfishness there is in this world. Our own conflicts regarding special needs parenting has nothing to do with her needing acknowledgement of sadness. Her mindset is quite the opposite and I have been happy that she handles the fact of his condition well. But it is me who does all the observations and interventions and so I am faced with seeing the brunt of his limitations, which can have a depressive effect. Now the conflict here is that I am unable to share my observations and thoughts with her without her putting me down in many ways, one being that I am so clinical (I am not but as advised by his pediatric psychologist, observation and therapy are now built into my being and they cannot be turned off). Any worry I have about a potential long term disadvantage is handled by her in difficult ways - either stonewall me or put me down. I don't recall ever feeling supported or that she has my back on his therapy needs.

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Ugh - I’m sorry. I can’t help but suspect that her carping about household expenses is because she’s been saving up money for her future single life and those pesky utility bills are slowing her down!

I’m glad you both have good incomes, you ought to be able to get 50:50 custody. I’m truly sorry divorce may interfere with your therapy for your child, that’s certainly the worst part of this.

Just to tell you an inspiring story I know: a friend of my best friend has a non-verbal autistic son. He used to do a lot of self-harming. Then, in his early teens, his doctor put him on sulphoraphane (broccoli extract, in this case specifically from a company called Thorne). His self-harming stopped. A couple of years later he started learning to communicate with an assistive device. Turns out he has an amazing vocabulary for someone who could never speak! Then Covid made it necessary for his father to be more involved in his schooling, as it was remote. He blossomed, started writing amazing poetry, and composing symphonies in his head. Now he’s working with a professional musician friend of his fathers to translate what he hears in his head into symphonies. I can’t wait for the first one to be performed!

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PeterB,
Originally Posted by PeterB
I am analytical on everything, a realist and problem-solving oriented (the last one has led to R conflicts that made no sense to me).
It seems like a disproportionate number of male LBSs here are.

Originally Posted by PeterB
His intervention needs are almost completely handled by me (there is little appreciation of that from my WW because she is in denial about lot of his limitations and potential prognosis).
Did this cause you to feel resentful?

Originally Posted by PeterB
She is a rockstar at her work and she is compensated accordingly. Deservedly, gets validated again and again. I was super proud of that.
Did you communicate your pride effectively? Did she feel respected and valued in regards to her career & contributions?

Originally Posted by PeterB
In the last year she did mention several times to me that now she earns as much as me and even mentioned that to my father (which he found rather odd).
Do you think she may have felt the need to justify her self worth and financial contributions?

Originally Posted by PeterB
Taking the example of my family, I had always considered my earned money to be hers as well, but the reverse was not remotely true. She has been clear that her earned income is her own money only. A source of conflict was she that she would frequently complain about spending too much for the household (the specifics of these complaints are too ugly for me to retain in my head).
Did your W have freedom to handle money or did she feel under a microscope & controlled financially?

Originally Posted by PeterB
At some point last year, this type of complaint gave me so much anxiety that I created a spreadsheet which showed that I spend 2.5 times as much as her per month on the household (without counting my paycheck expenses like family health insurance and other family benefits). She went quiet when confronted with numbers, but she repeated the same complaint after a few days as if the spreadsheet never happened.
How do you think showing her that spreadsheet made her feel?

Originally Posted by PeterB
Btw, my income is twice as much as her because I have a significant variable component in my compensation. She registers that.
Did you point out to her your income is higher and your contributions are higher? If so, how do you think that made her feel? And, do you think that may have been a factor in her telling you and your dad she now earns as much as you?

PeterB - Is it possible she may have felt not good enough or appreciated enough on the career/earning/financial contributions as you did on the caring for your special needs child?

Notice I'm asking "How did that make her feel?" a lot. Us analytical people can tend to think of everything logically like a math equation but can struggle empathizing feelings and providing emotional support. Your W wants to feel loved and respected and appreciated. Not saying that's the full story here, but based on the latest posts an area for you to consider working on moving forward.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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