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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Peter to follow on what BL states, nothing looks weaker than to state a boundary, and then not enforce it when crossed. Telling your WAW that you will divorce her if she has a PA, and then not following through will not be a good way of moving forward.

If a PA is a boundary you still say nothing. If you find out it is a PA then you go file for D. I find that most LBS say things like this to their WAS in an effort to manipulate their WAS to do or not do something. Really all it will do is make her hide it even more until she is ready to have you D her.

As BL said before, action not words. Boundaries are for you to take action once crossed, not to try to alter someone else's behavior.

Yes noted. I have not told her about my boundary btw. I don't intend to either. At this time I am trying to understand the full implication of this intent and mentally preparing myself for it.

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Originally Posted by Kind18
Quote
Getting this book. Can you inform if it is okay for WW to see this on my bedside, or should I keep it secret by getting ebook/audiobook?

Absolutely not. You’re not getting the book to manipulate her, you’re getting it to improve your mindset. Why on earth would you let her see it? Even if it wasn’t deliberate but she happened to see it on the bed stand she’ll think “oh he’s left that there for me to see, he’s trying to prove he’s worthy, how weak is this guy, his changes are temporary.”

Get the audiobook. It’s for you and you alone, nothing to do with her.

Thanks for the warning. Just when I was about to order the book, I got a gut feel that it could be a problem if she sees it, so ended up asking here.

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Note on boundaries.
Originally Posted by PeterB
But I am keen on setting boundaries.

I have not told her about my boundary btw.
I myself had a hard time fully getting my head around this.

Boundaries are for you. You really don’t need to state them or set them.
It is more about first, understanding your own values and second, manning up and owning those values in any given situation.


Me: 34
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BD: 6th Dec 2019
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Originally Posted by PeterB
My situation is a bit unique in that she is in an EA right now, even though it was PA before BD.
Your situation is not unique. Your W is having an affair. That happens in 99% of the situations here.
Originally Posted by PeterB
It was the PA that led her to BD in the first place - I am 100% sure; T
You are likely wrong here too. She has likely been looking to get out for a while and monkey branching is an easy escape for the monkey.
Originally Posted by PeterB
The promise of a new life is a powerful motivation for D.
People leave marriages for 1 of 2 reasons. Loss or attraction or don't see a happy future together.
Originally Posted by PeterB
I decided to LRT/GAL/180 after that and I am still in that journey.
What does LRT/GAL/180 mean to you? Sounds like you are trying to cook using a recipe and don't understand the ingredients.
Originally Posted by PeterB
But I am keen on setting boundaries. I know that it will become PA again if she travels to where OM lives.
So what happens if/when she does?
Originally Posted by PeterB
And in my current disposition that becomes a deal breaker.
So divorce? If so then tell her. Only if you mean it. I would word it this way "You can't have both. You need to pick one". Only do this if you mean it. If you do you will look strong. If you don't you will look weak and she will trample all over you.
Originally Posted by PeterB
I am mentally preparing myself for that action even though saving the MR is the north star.
It's not easy. Especially when kids are involved.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don’t chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.” ~LH19
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PeterB,
Originally Posted by PeterB
I was busy doing the dishwasher so could not say I was off to party smile
You jest, but serious question...why were you not out at a party? Remember the #1 thing recommended around here is GAL. Make yourself scarce around the house, avoid R talks, and go out and get a life.

Originally Posted by PeterB
Thanks for the warning. Just when I was about to order the book, I got a gut feel that it could be a problem if she sees it, so ended up asking here.
Good you asked first, but I agree with Kind18...don't leave things out in a passive-aggressive way to prove to her you're changing. She's not going to trust it. I made that mistake, as have many others.

Originally Posted by PeterB
My situation is a bit unique in that she is in an EA right now, even though it was PA before BD. It was the PA that led her to BD in the first place - I am 100% sure; The promise of a new life is a powerful motivation for D. I decided to LRT/GAL/180 after that and I am still in that journey. But I am keen on setting boundaries. I know that it will become PA again if she travels to where OM lives. And in my current disposition that becomes a deal breaker. I am mentally preparing myself for that action even though saving the MR is the north star.
As LH says your situation is not unique. Your wife is having an affair, which is almost always the case here. Not sure I understand the concept of the switching of a PA to EA? That's not something you can just turn on and off like a light switch simply because of lack of opportunity in the moment. As almost every vet on here knows, and it seems like you might be admitting yourself, your W and OM already had a physical relationship. You need to decide whether or not that's a deal breaker for you. No one else can do that for you. But you should get your head wrapped around a PA already happened. Sorry. I know it hurts.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by PeterB
And in my current disposition that becomes a deal breaker.
So divorce? If so then tell her. Only if you mean it. I would word it this way "You can't have both. You need to pick one". Only do this if you mean it. If you do you will look strong. If you don't you will look weak and she will trample all over you.
"In my current disposition" does not sound like a firm boundary. You can't be wishy washy and change your mind depending on how you feel and still command respect. Now, I wouldn't judge you if a PA was not a boundary because you want to keep the family and MR regardless. I get it. As I've said before it's impossible for people to know how they would act and feel until it happens in real life. However, if you decide it is a boundary then it's already been crossed and you should enforce it.

Last edited by BL42; 04/21/22 02:36 PM.

Me:39 Ex-W:37
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S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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I agree with BL. Peter, either a PA is a deal-breaker or it isn't. It cannot be "well today I feel like I would D her if she is in a PA, but tomorrow I might decide to keep the family intact". That is feeling, not a deal-breaker.

However, the one thing I want you to understand is that your only power here is to decide to D her or not D her. A lot of LBS that get cheated on do not understand that. This is what I meant earlier about wanting to tell her "if you are in a PA I will D you". That is not a boundary. It is you trying to scare her straight, so to speak.

Lots of LBSs have fallen into that trap. Hoping the threat of a D (even though the WAS has already stated that is what they want) will make them end the PA. The problem: You have no power to end an A, PA or not. None. SHE has to decide she wants to end it. D, no D, none of that will make her want to end it.

So the choice is simple. Can you get past a PA or not? Also, there is no way for you to get past a PA that is actively going on! So many LBSs on this forum have struggled with this. An unrepentant cheater is not someone you can rebuild a MR with. It just isn't an option. We've had LBSs here whose spouse has cheated, moved out, moved in with the AP, and even gone public as the AP's significant other, and the LBS still will sit there and say "they will wake up and want to come back at some point!" Even to the point of putting meaning into things that have no significance. "My WAS was nice to me today, they must be thinking about coming back!" As if being nice trumps cheating, leaving, moving in and starting a new life with the AP.

I say all of that Peter because I am detecting you trying to DB, you trying to establish a boundary, you trying to have a "conditional deal-breaker", all in the hope that she wakes up one morning and says "Wait, this is not what I want. I want to go back to my marriage to PeterB!" Please understand, nothing you say or do can cause that to come about. She MAY one day wake up like that. It may be in a few months (not likely), or it may be in several years (more likely). The question I have is: when is Peter going to say "screw her, I need to move forward with my life and stop waiting for her!"? That is what I am hoping for, for Peter to realize that DBing is about Peter moving forward with his life, not about Peter saving his marriage.


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Originally Posted by SteveLW
This is what I meant earlier about wanting to tell her "if you are in a PA I will D you". That is not a boundary. It is you trying to scare her straight, so to speak.
Uuuummm. It actually is a boundary. You are stating your boundary and the consequences that come along with breaking the boundary. You can go have an affair with OM but you will no longer be married to me. Of course you better mean it if you say it.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don’t chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.” ~LH19
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The decision "If she PAs, I will divorce her" is a boundary. It controls Peter's behavior.

The announcement "If you PA again, I'll divorce you!" is not needed to control Peter's behavior nor to enforce his boundary. The primary reason he would tell her is to attempt to influence or manipulate her.

Originally Posted by HappyPanda
Most boundaries (yours and other people’s) aren’t explicitly stated. Usually, there’s no need to voice a boundary unless it’s overstepped or violated.

Originally Posted by GoodMenProject
When you cause a person to act out of fear—the fear of retribution—you turn that person into a slave. Threats make people give in to your demands when they don’t want to, because you make the pain of refusing greater than the pain of giving in.

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Originally Posted by Traveler
The decision "If she PAs, I will divorce her" is a boundary. It controls Peter's behavior.

The announcement "If you PA again, I'll divorce you!" is not needed to control Peter's behavior nor to enforce his boundary. The primary reason he would tell her is to attempt to influence or manipulate her.

Originally Posted by HappyPanda
Most boundaries (yours and other people’s) aren’t explicitly stated. Usually, there’s no need to voice a boundary unless it’s overstepped or violated.

Originally Posted by GoodMenProject
When you cause a person to act out of fear—the fear of retribution—you turn that person into a slave. Threats make people give in to your demands when they don’t want to, because you make the pain of refusing greater than the pain of giving in.
This is why there are little to no recons here. Bad cookie cutter advice. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far she said she wants a separation or a divorce. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don’t chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people – the ones who really belong in your life – will come to you. And stay.” ~LH19
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Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by PeterB
I don't know what really works for WAW that makes them come back to the marriage.
Time and space are the only thing that turns these situations around long-term.
Just want to piggyback on this and add that you need to spend your time wisely. Be the man you want to be. Tear down, rebuild, refine.

Take this situation out of her hands (for the most part).

Make it about you: you attitude, your life, your happiness.

Become less wordy IMO. That option B is that right answer, just too many words.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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