Hi Bttrfly, Well, the Italian trip was simply amazing. This is actually the first time in about 25 years that I did something completely for myself and I enjoyed it to the fullest. I went to a wellness & retreat center, this to work further on myself and to further explore and discover the new me. I have met some wonderful people of which most of them had some trauma’s in the past (I’m pretty convinced that most people only start working on themselves when something traumatic happened to them) and who also want to work through this. I’m on a journey now which I most probably would never have experienced if I was still married to EXH, so in a certain way I’m grateful for that. The program was with lots of yoga, meditation, open sessions, wellness, massages, walks in nature etc. And you simply join or book what you want, on your own timing. The food was amazing as well. So definitely something I will do again next year and I would recommend everybody to do such a trip. It is very enriching.
Originally Posted by LH19
Your story reminds me of the movie Forrest Gump. Your Exh is like Ginny who was also broken. Whenever anything got to deep for her she would run to Forrest for the support and ego boost. Once she got it and felt better she was gone and Forrest was left there wondering what happened. Forrest had unconditional love for Ginny but I bet it wasn't easy for him. Forrest thought she was worth it so I guess your are going to have to figure out if your exh is worth the ins and outs and ups and downs.
Dear LH, Thank you for your honest feedback and indeed, I can relate to what you write above, I surely have unconditional love for him as well, he too is a broken person, but the only difference is that I’m not wondering what just happened. I allow it because I want to allow it for myself and because I finally accepted that I am a pleaser and I will always be one. These past years I blamed myself for being “weak”, and I couldn’t understand why I always wanted to help him, although all the bad things he did to me and the children. But I have learned not to fight this anymore. I am who I am and I finally have peace with that. I will help him in a certain way, and I will do this as long as it feels good for me. If not, I will walk away from it. I don’t experience any pain anymore from doing so, on the contrary, I’m even happy with it now, I embrace it.
Dear Mach, Thank you for the sharing of the threads of people whereby some of the MLC’ers made it to the other side. I will try to look them up and read them. I’m convinced my EXH is definitely not there yet. Maybe on his way back but he still has a very long way to go. The questions you have mentioned I have been asking myself as well. I want to work towards some sort of friendship in the first place so when he reaches out when he has difficult times and it works for me I will be there for him. I don’t seek reconciliation, this simply because the man I see in front of me is not a man I would want to date and definitely not be married to. Yes, I still feel a lot of love for him but the life I have now is much better then it was these past years so why would I want to give that up. The easy part is that I have my own place, I’m completely financially independent so if he wants to see me I go to his house, not the other way around, as my own place is my holy place now. He can come here to pick up the kids, to have a drink, but not to have serious conversations, this has to be in his house. I don’t want the children to be around that anymore. If however he would turn into a man which I would want to date, then I would consider it, but definitely no chance if this is not the case. I keep on doing what I have been doing, and that is simply live my life to the fullest. As Job wrote in the final chapter of her thread. (“To reclaim the person you once were, learn new hobbies, travel, meet new people and yes, even develop a new relationship.” – this is what I’m doing, although still WIP for the new relationship though, don’t want that yet, live is too good on my own, a date once and while will do for now, LOL)
Originally Posted by DnJ
It is great to hear that your trip was so wonderful. I bet the one week went by pretty quickly. Was this your first big trip solo?
Hi DnJ, Yes, it was. And what a fantastic journey it was!
Originally Posted by DnJ
And like has been stated, not your circus not your monkeys. You now know more of XH’s situation is all.
Completely right, not my story, not my monkeys. But it can have an affect on my children and this is not something I wanted anymore.
At one point I asked him, was it all worth it, what you experienced and what you have been through these past 4 years? The lost/destroyed connections with family and friends, the death of OW1, the divorce, the job switches, the move to another country and finally...making a woman pregnant who does not want you in the life of the child....nor you want this... That's when he told me about the fog, and that this was not what he wanted at all. And all this is still unprocessed... can you imagine what he will face once this all comes to the surface... I wouldn't be surpised him running again. Well, only time will tell I guess.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Remain your compassionate self.
THIS!!! Always, something I have learned from you.
BL, Thank you for your comforting words.
Me(45)EXH(44) M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16 04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1 12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child) 03/22-Divorce official 06/22-08/23 Reconnecting 09/23-possible back with OW2
Dear Mach, Thank you for the sharing of the threads of people whereby some of the MLC’ers made it to the other side. I will try to look them up and read them. I’m convinced my EXH is definitely not there yet. Maybe on his way back but he still has a very long way to go. The questions you have mentioned I have been asking myself as well. I want to work towards some sort of friendship in the first place so when he reaches out when he has difficult times and it works for me I will be there for him. I don’t seek reconciliation, this simply because the man I see in front of me is not a man I would want to date and definitely not be married to. Yes, I still feel a lot of love for him but the life I have now is much better then it was these past years so why would I want to give that up. The easy part is that I have my own place, I’m completely financially independent so if he wants to see me I go to his house, not the other way around, as my own place is my holy place now. He can come here to pick up the kids, to have a drink, but not to have serious conversations, this has to be in his house. I don’t want the children to be around that anymore. If however he would turn into a man which I would want to date, then I would consider it, but definitely no chance if this is not the case. I keep on doing what I have been doing, and that is simply live my life to the fullest. As Job wrote in the final chapter of her thread. (“To reclaim the person you once were, learn new hobbies, travel, meet new people and yes, even develop a new relationship.” – this is what I’m doing, although still WIP for the new relationship though, don’t want that yet, live is too good on my own, a date once and while will do for now, LOL)
I love what Job posted, and so accurate.
Just want you to understand that when the MLCer returns, they typically pursue HARD....
IF.....IF he is coming through the tunnel, that could happen....
As for the threads....
AmyC had some amazing stuff out there, and her threads didn't fully capture her over 12,000 posts here.
Read the tail end of this one for some insight on the MLC mind coming out of this....
We are 6 weeks further now after my last thread and I thought it was time to share where I am currently.
As you know, EXH has entered another phase of its MLC since mid-2022. The process is moving slowly but still in the right direction which is great news.
The contact with the children is getting better and better. He's trying incredibly hard to be a good father to them. A father who approaches them positively, who is caring and who is also very open about his feelings, and this too in a good way.
Next week he will go on a city trip with them for 2 days. This is the first time since the start of his MLC that he will be completely on his own with our children for longer than 1 full day. They are also looking forward to it.
The contact between us is also very good. I wanted to build a friendly relationship and so far I have succeeded. However, we have a very strong attraction to each other that is difficult to explain, but we can now also name this and deal with it in a good way.
I was on my guard so that I wouldn't make the same mistake I did in the past and lose myself in him, but today I feel stronger than ever. It is true that the strings are now in my hands. I also have never been more honest to him than these past weeks.
We see each other at least once a week, only the 2 of us, this to talk, have dinner, etc. He shares a lot of information and I can also ask a lot about what has happened in recent years. He tells me about all the things he has destroyed, he speaks a lot about losing himself completely in all the ways possible. He still has a lot hanging above his head, a lot of consequences in regards to his destructive behavior of the past years and he is very afraid of how to deal with that. But he knows this is something he needs to deal with on his own. We have also talked a lot about our past relationship and marriage.
He is a different person in many ways. Especially to express his feelings. Also to the self-knowledge he has now. Amazingly interesting to see how well he knows himself now. He has apparently been doing a lot of reading and self-evaluation for months now. However, many things have not yet been processed, but he realizes that he still has a long way to go.
It strikes me that the destructive behavior is almost gone, the depression is also less present, but most importantly, the human, or rather the monster he was during his MLC has completely disappeared and he seems to be the human he was before his MLC but different in many ways as well. Hard to explain.
However, he is very insecure about us. He told me that I am the love of his life, that there is no one who understands him as well as I do, that I am his compass, that he is rudderless without me but that through all the circumstances and everything he has done to me , can't / won't make promises about the future, this because he doesn’t trust himself. He wants me to be happy, and he now sees that I am and doesn't want to destroy this. The weird thing is that I feel the same way. We still love each other so much but both do not know if a permanent relationship could still be possible. However, I tell him that we do not need to know this now, that the future will tell.
What I do know now, however, is that it had to be that one of us 2 would meet someone new, that we wouldn't be able to be in each other's lives. I also made this clear to him. We are still way too intertwined that this wouldn't work for me. He realizes this and knows that this was also one of the reasons why it didn't work in his relationships. I was always in the background. For me, however, this is also the reason why I don't allow anyone else in my life today. But I don’t need this either for now.
So for now the situation we find ourselves in today. I don't know where we're going, but I'm not afraid anymore, I know I'll be okay at the end of the day, and that's the main thing.
I wish you a very happy ending of 2022. May the New Year bring all of you good health, lots of love, peace and happiness.
xxx
Eagle
Me(45)EXH(44) M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16 04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1 12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child) 03/22-Divorce official 06/22-08/23 Reconnecting 09/23-possible back with OW2
One thing that the returning MLCer fears more than anything is judgement. And who knows where or why they feel it. Most of it is from the guilt that they are carrying inside of them for all of the things that they destroyed along the way.
I would guess that 90% of it is stemming from inside of them and the other 10% is possibly true.
There are people that ARE judging them for their actions during their MLC. As long as it isn't you, then you are fine.
This won't leave easy either, it will linger for the rest of their life.
Quote
So for now the situation we find ourselves in today. I don't know where we're going, but I'm not afraid anymore, I know I'll be okay at the end of the day, and that's the main thing.
I would ask you this .....
What does a reconciliation look like to you ??
What steps would have to happen for that to be possible ??
Is reconciliation even something that you want ??
For now though, maybe answer those questions and try not to 'define' anything.
Just enjoy it if you are, and take each moment for what it is....
An awakening is a timid time for one exiting their crisis. There is a lot of soul searching, some deep depression, then a kind of rebirth. After, it will likely take 18-24 months for them to feel comfortable in their own skin, to truly put it all (or mostly all) behind them and live forward.
It is so interesting seeing XH (G ?) exhibiting such self awareness. I think G is probably more apt regarding the majority of his behaviour. Weekly dinners, open and honest talks, a trip with the kids, all very good steps.
Sounds like you are handling yourself most well. A testament to the self work you accomplished.
Wishing you all the best in this and the new year!
Much love and respect,
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi E, I think the kindest and most generous thing you can do for all concerned (your children, yourself and your exh) is to remain your most fiercely compassionate self. Mach is correct about judgment being a huge fear.
If you both decide to piece, from what I've read that's the toughest road yet. Westo, Jack3Beans, LABug are three people who pieced. I know that if you want to go that route, you will have to dig deeper than you ever have before for patience.
Best to still keep the focus on yourself and your kids while remaining compassionate.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Oh, Eagle, wow, oh wow. I had a friend not from here but from marriage ministry who pieced, and they are restored. She still suffers from the pain of it all but is committed to rebuilding. She is very Christian and leans on her faith when her will wants no part of the pain of memory.
Eagle, you have been a real friend to me on these boards and I want to send you love and courage and strength on your journey. I hope you have a local friend to talk to about things to help stay clear-headed. I truly believe in restoration, hope you can take it slower than slower than slow. Sending you love and a bouquet of wildflowers and a prayer and a cup of tea with a friend.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Take things slowly and do not attempt to rush the process. Be a friend, listen, allow him to come to you and talk. Do not offer up advice unless he asks for it. It took a long time for the crisis to occur and it will take some time for him to feel comfortable, not only in his own skin, but with all. He has a lot of guilt, and is afraid of judgment and criticism.
Here's a thread that I created many years ago that may provide some insight into reconnection for you. The thread is entitled "TMAK - Explanation of Reconnection.
The reconnection is the hardest part of the journey. Why? Because, if he is reconnecting, you will want to get things back on track as soon as possible and it will not work that way. If you push or things happen too soon, he could be right out the door once again. Patience is the key. Wishing you the best of luck and if you get frustrated, please come here to talk. The door is always open.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
One thing that the returning MLCer fears more than anything is judgement. And who knows where or why they feel it. Most of it is from the guilt that they are carrying inside of them for all of the things that they destroyed along the way. I would guess that 90% of it is stemming from inside of them and the other 10% is possibly true. There are people that ARE judging them for their actions during their MLC. As long as it isn't you, then you are fine. This won't leave easy either, it will linger for the rest of their life.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I think the kindest and most generous thing you can do for all concerned (your children, yourself and your exh) is to remain your most fiercely compassionate self. Mach is correct about judgment being a huge fear.
Originally Posted by job
Take things slowly and do not attempt to rush the process. Be a friend, listen, allow him to come to you and talk. Do not offer up advice unless he asks for it. It took a long time for the crisis to occur and it will take some time for him to feel comfortable, not only in his own skin, but with all. He has a lot of guilt, and is afraid of judgment and criticism.
Hi Mach, bttrfly, Job, What you have made clear above is indeed one of his greatest fears, which is being judged for all that he has done. This is a present a lot of times in our conversations. He is very critical about himself at certain times and at other times he laughs it off. Kind of strange to witness this. I do try to be a good friend to him. However, we have come to the point that he now really shares everything with me, and there are sometimes things that are very profound, also a lot about the OW's. F.e. I only knew of 2 OW's but there have been many more. He had 2 "fix" relationships (being OW1 and OW2 in my eyes) but cheated many times on both of them as well. The reason why it lasted longer with these 2 is because he had feelings for them. But I can handle it amazingly enough. It is even important for me to know all this so that I can also give this a place. Is it normal for him to do this, he says that he can only talk about all of this with me. That he finds the psychological help which he know he needs within the conversations with me, because I am the only one who knows him so well and who always shows understanding and compassion. Yesterday he texted me again to thank me for the support I give him and that he will never take it for granted again like he used to. That he wants to do the same for me. If I struggle with something that I can contact him at all times.
Originally Posted by Mach1
I would ask you this ..... What does a reconciliation look like to you ?? What steps would have to happen for that to be possible ?? Is reconciliation even something that you want ?? For now though, maybe answer those questions and try not to 'define' anything.
Mach, Very good questions, but I can't answer them myself. The true love is present, but reconciliation is a very big step which takes much more than simply plain love. I still don't want the person I see in front of me today as a fixed value in my life, because he is still very occupied with himself, but also because not all flee behavior has disappeared yet. He still drinks a lot and still has moments when he says things that don't make any sense at all. So I'm not going to define this yet. What I do know for sure is that today we are building a good friendship where honesty, understanding and respect are central. If this goes the other way again I'm sure I'll walk away from it. This is the basis for me to go forward.
Originally Posted by DnJ
An awakening is a timid time for one exiting their crisis. There is a lot of soul searching, some deep depression, then a kind of rebirth. After, it will likely take 18-24 months for them to feel comfortable in their own skin, to truly put it all (or mostly all) behind them and live forward. It is so interesting seeing XH (G ?) exhibiting such self awareness. I think G is probably more apt regarding the majority of his behaviour. Weekly dinners, open and honest talks, a trip with the kids, all very good steps.
Hi D, Yes, G is present 80% of the times when we are in touch with each other, which is actually on a daily basis now, mostly through messages. From what I guess (I say guess because with MLC you never really know what is going on) he had several awakenings throughout the whole MLC period, but this one seems to last already 4 to 6 months with a lot of ups and downs. The soul searching is definitely there, depression as well but still hidden in certain ways. Difficult to say and I won’t even try to analyze it anymore. Have done this so much the first two years and I promised myself to never go that way again since it drives you mad at a certain point. He and he alone is responsible for it, and I can only show my understanding and compassion, and this at times when it also feels right for me.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
If you both decide to piece, from what I've read that's the toughest road yet. Westo, Jack3Beans, LABug are three people who pieced. I know that if you want to go that route, you will have to dig deeper than you ever have before for patience.
B, I know this but can’t tell yet if I want to take that road. I know I want him in my life when he is G, I only don’t know yet in what position.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Best to still keep the focus on yourself and your kids while remaining compassionate.
I certainly do so. You have educated me well. 😊
Originally Posted by Gerda
Eagle, you have been a real friend to me on these boards and I want to send you love and courage and strength on your journey. I hope you have a local friend to talk to about things to help stay clear-headed. I truly believe in restoration, hope you can take it slower than slower than slow. Sending you love and a bouquet of wildflowers and a prayer and a cup of tea with a friend.
Dear Gerda, Many thanks for your kind words. They mean so much to me. You are a true soul. I have one best friend, I know her since we were young and she knows everything. She also does not judge and remains compassionate at all times. Also something I truly need in my life.
Originally Posted by job
The reconnection is the hardest part of the journey. Why? Because, if he is reconnecting, you will want to get things back on track as soon as possible and it will not work that way. If you push or things happen too soon, he could be right out the door once again. Patience is the key. Wishing you the best of luck and if you get frustrated, please come here to talk. The door is always open.
Thank you Job. I know what you mean by that. Sometimes this is the case as you have many good memories together, it was once very good between us and you long for those moments but then you have to focus very well not to because this is simply not there anymore. But since I've been through this several times with him in recent years (not the first time he reconnects) I've learned from my mistakes and distanced myself enough to deal with this. I will certainly come here to talk when I have moments where I don’t know how to deal with it.
To all of you, thanks again for the support xxx
Me(45)EXH(44) M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16 04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1 12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child) 03/22-Divorce official 06/22-08/23 Reconnecting 09/23-possible back with OW2
Eagle I want to start out by saying I think you are doing a great job post divorce!
I do want to ask you one question. Does the below continue if he is in a relationship with another woman?
Originally Posted by Eagle3
That he finds the psychological help which he know he needs within the conversations with me, because I am the only one who knows him so well and who always shows understanding and compassion. Yesterday he texted me again to thank me for the support I give him and that he will never take it for granted again like he used to. That he wants to do the same for me. If I struggle with something that I can contact him at all times.
