Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 191
Likes: 5
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 191
Likes: 5
Originally Posted by LH19
Look Andrew my EXW did the same thing as your but her OM dumped her. I don't ponder why she did it. I have moved on . You should do the same. We are here to help you move forward.

In the absence of any clear feedback from the WAS, (which is the case for pretty much anybody with an MLC WAS) how will we know that we've found the right 'failure' to work on avoiding next relationship? You say it doesn't matter because the WAS is an 'ex'. Why doesn't it matter? If you're saying it's at least partially the LBS' fault the WAS doesn't want to be there, how is the LBS to make sense of the WAS' departure without a bit of a ponder?

If you're as analytical as Andrew, an LBS would then go on to try and verify that any self-diagnosed failures are indeed root causes. Without clear feedback it's easy to pick potential root cause failures that perhaps weren't problematic. That might take a bit more pondering. Some people ponder a bit longer than others in the hope of a truer, more correct outcome.

I'm going to assume, LH, that you yourself actually did ponder where you went wrong in your relationship. How do you know though, if you were right? It probably goes without saying if you didn't ponder where you went wrong, you probably shouldn't be congratulating yourself for moving on. That's not moving on - that's just running away.


Me:57 H:57
S:25 S:22
M:24 T:26
BD:Aug 15
D:Sep 17
1 member likes this: Traveler
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by devvo
Originally Posted by LH19
Look Andrew my EXW did the same thing as your but her OM dumped her. I don't ponder why she did it. I have moved on . You should do the same. We are here to help you move forward.

In the absence of any clear feedback from the WAS, (which is the case for pretty much anybody with an MLC WAS) how will we know that we've found the right 'failure' to work on avoiding next relationship? You say it doesn't matter because the WAS is an 'ex'. Why doesn't it matter? If you're saying it's at least partially the LBS' fault the WAS doesn't want to be there, how is the LBS to make sense of the WAS' departure without a bit of a ponder?

If you're as analytical as Andrew, an LBS would then go on to try and verify that any self-diagnosed failures are indeed root causes. Without clear feedback it's easy to pick potential root cause failures that perhaps weren't problematic. That might take a bit more pondering. Some people ponder a bit longer than others in the hope of a truer, more correct outcome.

I'm going to assume, LH, that you yourself actually did ponder where you went wrong in your relationship. How do you know though, if you were right? It probably goes without saying if you didn't ponder where you went wrong, you probably shouldn't be congratulating yourself for moving on. That's not moving on - that's just running away.
Devo I did delve into where I went wrong in the beginning. I’ve read countless books on relationships, attraction etc. I know where I went wrong and I have to live with it. Some day when I have the convo with my kids I have to own my part. I just answered the question for Andrew while he was pondering on his thread because believe it or not I’m trying to help him move forward. IMO 4 years later still pondering these questions seems like a waste of time.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by kml
So LH, if the reason for your EA early in your marriage was that you lost attraction to your wife, why did it bother you so much years later when she cheated on you?
It wasn’t so much that she she had an her EA we are all human and flawed it was that she gave up on the family with zero effort to try to repair it.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
Originally Posted by DonH
Originally Posted by Traveler
What part of Andrew's tale makes you think the tears weren't a genuine display of emotion?

Well it almost certainly was a display of emotion. Was it genuine? Probably so. But WHAT was that genuine emoticon about? Did she feel bad for Andrew? Not likely. Was she worried about herself, her future, her needs? Very probably so. Many WAW are emotional but it’s all about them, they could often care less about the spouse they just dropped the bomb on. It’s all about THEM.

The thing is, LH is largely correct… most spouses are no longer happy or no longer feel connected or loved. Happy spouses rarely leave. Can it be something inside if them? Of course it can. Could it be how the left behind spouce behaved and treated them? It most certainly often is. But the great majority of the time it’s a combination of the two. It’s the faults of BOTH spouses. The LBS who wants to pin all or most of the blame on their spouse still has some lessons to learn.
It can also be that the LBS did or said something that hit the original wound/trigger point. Suddenly they aren't leaving their spouse, they're reacting to the original wound and treating the LBS as though they were the original person to cause the LBS such deep pain. In the case of MLC, these are not rational people.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
cause the MLCr not the LBS we NEED AN EDIT BUTTON, pretty please?


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
and yes, Don. Each person bears responsibility in the demise of a marriage.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Suddenly they aren't leaving their spouse, they're reacting to the original wound and treating the LBS as though they were the original person to cause the LBS such deep pain.
So I think you would agree that pain will cause a person to be unhappy right?
Originally Posted by bttrfly
In the case of MLC, these are not rational people.
So BF if I murdered someone and I said MLC made me do it do you think that would stand up in court? Or did I make a conscious decision to murder someone knowing full well what the consequences are for the action?

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
I am flabbergasted how many of you take offense to the WW spouse being unhappy. I didn't even say it was the LBS fault. The egos on you people lol.

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by bttrfly
Suddenly they aren't leaving their spouse, they're reacting to the original wound and treating the LBS as though they were the original person to cause the LBS such deep pain.
So I think you would agree that pain will cause a person to be unhappy right?
Originally Posted by bttrfly
In the case of MLC, these are not rational people.
So BF if I murdered someone and I said MLC made me do it do you think that would stand up in court? Or did I make a conscious decision to murder someone knowing full well what the consequences are for the action?
I'm not discussing this with you LH. Nor am I rising to your bait. My husband and I were in a marriage. It failed. You don't need to arm chair quarterback my life under the guise of helping me. When I want your help or anyone else's here, I will ask. To be clear, I haven't asked.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
1 member likes this: AndrewP
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Quote
I am flabbergasted how many of you take offense to the WW spouse being unhappy. I didn't even say it was the LBS fault. The egos on you people lol.

The danger in not saying that clearly LH is that LBSs are particularly prone to taking responsibility for the failure of the marriage on themselves - and it's really important for them to know that they were not in charge of their spouses happiness. Sure, there are bad spouses that are responsible for the breakdown of their marriage - that is NOT most people who linger here. Most of us have done tons of work on ourselves, re-examined our assumptions, improved ourselves - that is the gift of this crucible. But it's important for people to know that none of that will necessarily save the marriage because the typical LBS leaves because of their OWN issues, which may be unhappiness, or may be narcissism or sociopathy, or may be a cheater who has to leave because their spouse found out or because they get stuck in a relationship with an OM/OW through pregnancy or some other factor.

As for still trying to figure things out - that's REALLY important. People that don't do that repeat the same mistakes when they choose their next partners, or make other errors trying to partner up too quickly. When I say that my ex was an idiot who had it all and that his leaving was about his own issues, I can say that with confidence not because of my own ego, but because I have examined my role, his role, made numerous changes, seen hundreds of similar situations here, and seen both his behavior since the marriage and the viewpoint of several men who have dated me since the divorce. It is really freeing to understand in the rear view mirror that it truly never was about me. Analyzing what went wrong, what red flags we missed, how we might avoid similar mistakes in the future is important.

For instance - have you truly understood how YOUR affair may have been what brought down your marriage, LH? You swept it under the rug, buried it, and deprived your wife of the agency in her own life to decide whether she wanted to be married to someone who had cheated on her. She likely sensed something off in your relationship when you were in your affair - no one hides it as well as they think they do. She may have just thought you were stressed at work, or irritable for some mysterious reason, or whatever - but it likely changed your relationship in ways that you aren't aware. And I can only imagine that finding out years later that you had lied to her for YEARS - well, that may well have been the reason she wasn't willing to do the work to keep the family together. She might well have made different choices in her life in those years if she had known, even if she had stayed in the marriage. She might have made different career and financial choices, knowing that the marriage was on shaky grounds. Maybe it would serve you to do more work on why you cheated, rather than just "I was unhappy and I saw a better future with someone else". That's okay for when you are just dating, but not for when you have taken wedding vows.

1 member likes this: devvo
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard