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Quick update. I decided against asking her to go to MC. When I got home, I spoke to my boys went upstairs to my room and started to read my current self help book. One of the guys at work had left his cigarettes and I picked then up to give them to him tomorrow (I stopped smoking many years ago).
After about 30 mins, the wife came into the room. She starting talking about how we need to get someone who can look after them, in the event something happens to both of us, until they can get repatriated. This went on for a bit, the. she started a R talk. I should have shut this down right away, but I let it run. She was fully in negative mode - nothing was ever good, ever! She doesnt want to work on marriage, why do we not separate, she feels nothing for me, doesnt feel there is anything left in the marriage, repeated several incidents that happened over a decade ago. At this point she saw the smokes and started asking if i was smoking. I didnt say anything and she kept going on that I shouldnt do it. She took the smokes with her when she went and asked several times would I stop doing it (btw she smokes).

During the R talk I didnt raise my voice, I stressed I wanted to get my family back. I let her do 60% of the talking and tried to validate and empathise. The R talk ended with her saying she was still “observing”.

I put the kids to bed, she went out for an hour. I made sure I was in bed before she got home.
This morning when I got up I saw she had made food for today when she came home and let it cooking in the slow cooker overnight

Tonight Im gonna take my oldest to his soccer practice then go to my room when I get back, not start any conversation at all, if she approaches I will be kind, generous and brief.


End Date 11th August 2022 - One way or the other!
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Originally Posted by SteveLW
Originally Posted by scaredA
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Before I can answer this I need to ask you a question:

Do you know for sure she is ready to work on the marriage? Last time I asked that you said you were still confused.

Im still confused, so I know your answer! Is there any harm in gauging her feeling towards going potentially in the future?

A) It doesn't matter. If and when the time comes whether you gauged it now or not will have no bearing on whether she goes or not.

B) Believe nothing she says......so even if she says "sure I'd be open to it" it is meaningless because you cannot believe a word she says. #1 rule of dealing with lying cheaters is to not believe what comes out of their mouths.

C) It is nearly impossible to ask a question like this without hopes and expectations. Which breaks the "drop expectations" principle.

It is all downside and no upside. Stop focusing on her and what she may or may not do.

Thanks Steve this post helped me a lot. It would have been a right mess if I had have asked. I need help on this forums to try and stay focused.

Appreciate it!


End Date 11th August 2022 - One way or the other!
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May, Thankyou for this post. It really helped me a lot. I am happy that you think there is some improvment, no matter how small, it really helps me to have some small goals to aim at. I get a lot of great advice on these forums, but sometimes I feel it is all geared towards, “Hurry up and get the divorce, you are only postponing the inevitable”. Thankyou again.


Originally Posted by may22
Hi SA,

I completely agree with the others about not inviting her to speak to a DB coach. I did this, actually, and my H had a session with her. I don't think it was helpful. In fact, I'm kind of embarrassed about it now. I would strongly recommend against it.

The fact that you're asking about that tells me that you're still looking for a solution-- if I only do X then she'll turn back to the M and we'll be on track again. That is a cheeseless tunnel. My advice is that every time an idea strikes of something "to do" sit with it (like you did with this idea-- congrats!) and really parse out for yourself-- is this in any way pursuit? Does this in any way try to get a response out of my W (=control)?[\quote]

Thanks, I am starting to realise this is a marathon. I dont need to respond immediately to everything.

[quote=may22]The 180s are for you, not for her. To be a better person/father/potential partner in the future. Moving away from the stonewalling/critical version of SA sounds like a great thing. The tiptoeing around and walking on glass, not really a 180.

Im struggling with the balance of not initiating conversation and appearing to be stonewalling again, as I did that for so long and I dont want to appear to be doing more of the same. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by may22
I totally get the desire to fight for your M b/c of your kids. I don't think that DBing is walking away, necessarily, though it may take that form for some. It is giving your M the best chance it has to succeed. You have your cut-off date-- great! I know others may disagree, but I actually do think that you've seen progress with your W and to me that means keep up the DBing-- don't compromise all your progress by trying to get her in MC before she's ready, starting up the pursuit too soon, trying to manipulate her into doing certain things, etc. Take all that energy and refocus it on yourself and your kids. I'd also recommend keeping a close eye on your boundaries-- this is especially important when you still live together. Take time and energy to be sure you're protecting yourself emotionally through all of this. It is hard.

Im really struggling with defining boundaries. One of them is that I wont listen to her disrespecting my family. She did it a few times during last nights talk. I said I wont listen to that and said I would leave if she continued. I should have been more forceful.
It raised my spirits that you feel some progress has been made. I also think some very small baby steps have occured. Three months ago we had zero communication except arguments. You are right, I need to focus on the changes that have occured and remember theat DBing achieved these and so I should keep at it.


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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by scaredA
Just throwing this out there, for all the good feedback. Im thinking of asking her if she would be interested in attending a DB coach. Im thinking about doing it in this manner.

Your focus is on the wrong person. Set her free. She needs to feel like she made a mistake and has lost you before she is willing to do any work on the relationship.

IF she comes begging you to take her back, she will ask what would it take. You let her know it is her job to list out what she is willing to do to get you back. When she shares her list, you let her know you will think about it.

Even that is putting the cart before the horse. Focus on positive changes to your behavior and the way you interact with everyone. Make your goals in all areas that you have full control over. You are not in control of her. She has her own work to do.

Read this:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984

R2C, your advice is spot on as always. Im reading the thread you linked and it is invaluable. I think I have been slipping from DBing recently. I think the initial softening I have seen is all down to DBing and her more recent distancing is due to me starting more R talk, or letting her start R talk. I will go back to being more distant, but talk if she initiates the conversation


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Im struggling with the balance of not initiating conversation and appearing to be stonewalling again, as I did that for so long and I dont want to appear to be doing more of the same. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Validation

Have you read all threads on validation?


Me: 34
Stbxw: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
OM Confirmed: Feb 2020
March 2020: I filed for D
Waiting for D to be finalized and W to move out end of January 2021
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Originally Posted by Mumin
Quote
Im struggling with the balance of not initiating conversation and appearing to be stonewalling again, as I did that for so long and I dont want to appear to be doing more of the same. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Validation

Have you read all threads on validation?

So are you saying I should let her initiate conversation. When she does just validate and listen. Let her do all the talking. Should I bring it to a close? Or let her go on as long as she likes?

I read the validating statements thread. Is there other ones?

Last edited by scaredA; 11/03/21 11:06 AM.

End Date 11th August 2022 - One way or the other!
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Originally Posted by scaredA
I get a lot of great advice on these forums, but sometimes I feel it is all geared towards, “Hurry up and get the divorce, you are only postponing the inevitable”.
Scared not one person has said to hurry up and divorce. People are telling you to have zero expectations and to make changes for you. This is where you are not there yet. You have a cut-off date which is very reasonable time-line.

Originally Posted by may22
The fact that you're asking about that tells me that you're still looking for a solution-- if I only do X then she'll turn back to the M and we'll be on track again. That is a cheeseless tunnel. My advice is that every time an idea strikes of something "to do" sit with it (like you did with this idea-- congrats!) and really parse out for yourself-- is this in any way pursuit? Does this in any way try to get a response out of my W
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.

Originally Posted by scaredA
I'm really struggling with defining boundaries. One of them is that I wont listen to her disrespecting my family. She did it a few times during last nights talk. I said I wont listen to that and said I would leave if she continued. I should have been more forceful.
Unfortunately without clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need you will struggle mightily. That's what people respond too and being soft with a wayward tends to make them walk all over you.
Originally Posted by scaredA
It raised my spirits that you feel some progress has been made. I also think some very small baby steps have occurred. Three months ago we had zero communication except arguments. You are right, I need to focus on the changes that have occurred and remember that DBing achieved these and so I should keep at it.
Rome wasn't built in a day.


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�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Originally Posted by scaredA
So are you saying I should let her initiate conversation.
Yes
Originally Posted by scaredA
When she does just validate and listen.
This is where it gets tricky. First off it is my opinion that you never validate bs or $hitty behavior. Some here disagree. If you are not good at validation it it can come off as condescending. I have a friend who if I say "you sound frustrated is that how you feel?" flips her $hit on me. Personally I am not a fan of validating waywards but that is just me. Best to keep it simple with "I understand that's how you feel" but you also don't want to sound like a robot. Practice on your kids, friends and co-workers.
Originally Posted by scaredA
Let her do all the talking.
I'd say 80-20.
Originally Posted by scaredA
Should I bring it to a close?
Yes because you are busy leading a kick a$$ life and have to run.
Originally Posted by scaredA
Or let her go on as long as she likes?
See above


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Originally Posted by scaredA
Originally Posted by Mumin
Quote
Im struggling with the balance of not initiating conversation and appearing to be stonewalling again, as I did that for so long and I dont want to appear to be doing more of the same. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Validation

Have you read all threads on validation?

So are you saying I should let her initiate conversation. When she does just validate and listen. Let her do all the talking. Should I bring it to a close? Or let her go on as long as she likes?

I read the validating statements thread. Is there other ones?

I am a big fan of the LBS being so busy that they have to be the one to end the discussion. After listening and validating for a bit "I have to be some where." And then going and GAL.

Most LBS do not do GAL well enough to do this.


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Just my 2 cents

You can validate if she has a tough day with topics that aren’t related to the relationship. But I wouldn’t validate her saying it’s over, I feel nothing for you etc etc etc. however personally I wouldn’t respond. If you say “I’m sorry you feel that way” how does that sound?

Don’t initiate relationship talks right now. If she does feel free to listen, but have absolutely no expectations positive or negative.

As many have pointed out, go out and do something fun. Find a hobby. Take the kids out with or without her. Going out twice a month isn’t getting a life. Don’t do it to manipulate the situation either. Do it for you because you want to have fun. Sitting around to see if she’s going to come around is enemy number 1 to your mental heath.

You can’t control her anymore than she can control you. You can’t make her stay in a marriage. You can’t force her to do anything. You can’t manipulate the situation. And manipulation takes on many different masks. Accept what’s in your power and that’s you. You control your reactions, decisions, and what you find acceptable and what you are willing to tolerate.

Again just my two cents


Me: 37
W: 34
Together 17 years
Married 16 years
5 kids, 17,16,13,12,8
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