She promises there is no one else, and she's always been so brutally honest that I believe her.
Originally Posted by costanza
When I learned about W's EA that ended (temporarily?) a month ago,
You are like George Costanza lol. Your stories don't add up George. We can't help you if we don't have all the facts.
The EA was after the D-bomb. I asked earlier, is it still considered cheating if it happens after the split is announced?
Well number 1 95% of bombs are initiated because there is someone else. Number 2 that’s up for you to decide. WWs will try to justify there behavior and say that’s not cheating. At this point does it even matter? Especially because you’re doing the same thing.
To answer your first paragraph, I want my relationship, I want to work at it. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I'm willing to sacrifice.
Fair enough, bro. But from what I've seen here you're barely willing to put yourself through minor inconvenience if W doesn't have an immediate response, so you better be very very sure about that before you commit to standing. There is a lot of swallowing your pride, eating sh!t sandwiches, and not allowing your ego to do the driving. If you're willing to actually sacrifice for standing, we're here to support you through that. But standing isn't easy. Neither road is but standing, in and of itself, takes a whole lotta of discipline and introspection. I personally don't know if you're up to that. But you do.
Originally Posted by costanza
Moving in with my buddy part-time, is the option if we choose to nest. If nesting doesn't work, I'd want to keep the house, pretty sure she wouldn't want it. However, now I'm confused, most people are saying as the LBS I need her to do the work and file papers, etc....
The "plans to leave" are if we proceed with nesting. I wasn't aware of all the negative aspects. So now I need to reconsider that plan.
Nesting is a terrible idea unless the two of you can handle some very very strict rules and be ok with policing each other, which almost no couple who's falling apart at the seams can. On top of it in the event of the D why would put yourself in the position of be court ordered out of the house until she has a place of her own? She wants to leave she can leave. It's not your job to help her design her new life. You don't want to leave then you stay.
Originally Posted by costanza
This paragraph contains the answer I was looking for, which was, how do I react to living with my x-wife if she's out partying and dating while we're under the same roof. This part definitely seems like the hardest.
Standing is hard. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll ever do if it's what you choose to do here. But you get to leave with the satisfaction that you tried, and wanted to try, and no matter how it ended you were willing to do what it took to repair things even if that meant doing nothing.
Originally Posted by costanza
I didn't realize this approach was an option longterm: "It's because you believe in your marriage even if your W doesn't. It's so you can say you were willing to do what ever it took to save this. Including relinquishing control and waiting patiently to see what happens. IHS isn't easy, but it's doable." It seemed to me that would show some weakness and the opposite of moving forward & GAL. I need to read up more on boundaries.
This has zero to do with boundaries. Do you tell a roommate when they can come and go? Do you tell them who they can and can't spend time with? Do you worry about what your roommate ate for dinner? Or who they ate it with? No you don't. Because you're not their keeper, or their parent. If you want to do this this isn't about boundaries as you are still thinking of them. They are not intended for your W they are for you. Physical boundary that I articulated my H could not sleep in the bed with me while he wanted to be sleeping with someone else. Emotional boundaries that I didn't articulate, no conversation outside of business: kids and bills, he was not privy to my inner life, thoughts or emotions even if they were about him, when I GAL'd I didn't announce where I was going or what I was doing, or with whom, I just made sure he knew he was in charge of dinner and pick up for the kids. I think you need a better understand of an IHS is or even a S because it isn't weakness to let your spouse live their life. It isn't weakness to stand for your marriage. It's weakness to let their choices affect how you live yours. It's weakness to try to control your spouse. It's weakness to try to trick them back into the MR. It's weakness to change things about yourself solely for the purposes of trying to convince your spouse to love you and stay.
Originally Posted by costanza
As for taking the high road, its wild how the automatic reaction is opposite to what seems to actually work. Just like you've guys have said all along. When I learned about W's EA that ended (temporarily?) a month ago, and considering how well the past 7-10 days have gone between us, and that there was no news on the counselling front, I was actually considering confronting her with "look, this isn't working, I've been approached by an old friend/x-GF about seeing each other and I'm gonna go ahead with it, I just wanted to be honest and up front." This is true, that we've been in contact, but nothing more than messaging and I have not accepted or made a move. I actually backed off. My thinking was that it would make my W p!$$ or get off the pot. But after reading you guys, i guess not? I can see how this could be playing games.
What in the actual *&$@?? There is so much to unpack there I literally don't even know where to start. Honey, I'm going to need you to re-read DR like at least twice. And probably read through every single one of the newbie links again.
A revenge affair is all fun and games until it's not. And that's not counterintuitive. Every one who gets themselves in one knows exactly what they're doing and why they are doing it. They also are well aware of the fall out. But scorched earth feels good when nothing else really does. So let's not pretend it's counterintuitive. Let's be honest about what this is and then move the eff on.
If you choose to stand for the MR you are going to have to block that woman on literally everything. You opened a flood gate not a window. It's your job to close it.
Originally Posted by costanza
I'm gonna have to study your last two paragraphs, I'll definitely need some guidance. Any suggested reading concerning how to go about this.
I'll need you to be more specific about what you need guidance for in order to know what I'm suggesting.
The couple I knew who nested, she was the WAS and he was the LBS. His mental health spiraled through a year of hell as he found condoms, hairs, etc. in the trash, bed, shower, etc. It ended in a messy legal battle a year later when he was ready to end the arrangement.
The EA was after the D-bomb. I asked earlier, is it still considered cheating if it happens after the split is announced?
I didn't know that announcing a split ended a marriage. I thought it was filing for divorce and going through the divorce process.
Heck yes it is cheating until the marriage is no more.
Exactly. You're MARRIED! You can't just choose to say "I'm unhappy" one day and then go date other people for awhile and have it not be cheating.
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Do not agree to a nesting arrangement.
I made this mistake. Do not nest. I can elaborate if you would like. Just ask.
As everyone else has said...do not nest.
Originally Posted by costanza
I was actually considering confronting her with "look, this isn't working, I've been approached by an old friend/x-GF about seeing each other and I'm gonna go ahead with it, I just wanted to be honest and up front.
If you honestly want any hope the marriage will survive this is a terrible idea. At best manipulative to tell her, at worst perhaps a bit revealing to your real motives/issues. Why would your x-GF reach out? How would she know you & your W are having issues? Suspicious timing, no?
Look, it's a blow to the ego to have our W in an affair with another man...I know. You're maybe fearful she'll move on before you, maybe you have a desire for revenge...etc., but it's not a good path. Take time to step back and work on yourself and focus on your kids. They don't need both mommy and daddy running off into fantasy land right now.
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
You need to decide if you're standing for this MR or moving on first...
Originally Posted by LH19
Take the focus off your W. Concentrate on you and the kids. GAL doing anything that doesn't involve your ex girlfriend and affection. Just breathe for awhile. Right now the ball is in your Ws court and it looks like she is making moves to dissolve the marriage. Decide what you want and why you want it and we can help you move forward...
Re-read the full posts Wayfarer and LH's made above in the thread.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
I was actually considering confronting her with "look, this isn't working, I've been approached by an old friend/x-GF about seeing each other and I'm gonna go ahead with it, I just wanted to be honest and up front.
If you honestly want any hope the marriage will survive this is a terrible idea. At best manipulative to tell her, at worst perhaps a bit revealing to your real motives/issues. Why would your x-GF reach out? How would she know you & your W are having issues? Suspicious timing, no?
Look, it's a blow to the ego to have our W in an affair with another man...I know. You're maybe fearful she'll move on before you, maybe you have a desire for revenge...etc., but it's not a good path. Take time to step back and work on yourself and focus on your kids. They don't need both mommy and daddy running off into fantasy land right now.
Not sure how I missed this! Wow.
costanza what would be the point of confronting her and saying that? Is the hope/expectation that she would say "Oh wait! I don't want to lose you! Don't do it!"?? That is not DBing. That is manipulation. That is trying to "scare her straight". And it would not end well. Even IF you get the reaction you would want, you could put no trust into it. Why? Because likely she needs you as Plan B. So her reaction wouldn't be a genuine "I don't want to lose you", it would be a "I am not ready to give up my safety net, so until I find something better please don't do this".
Secondly, even though you cannot count on her living up to the "we won't date until January" (which is a ridiculous agreement as stated previously), it is agreement you made! The new you should be living up to his word, no matter what she is doing or not doing. You are above all of that. That is the 180s and self-improvements you are making, a man of integrity, not spite and vengefulness.
Also, WASs LOVE when their LBS goes out and starts seeing someone else, even if they make a play to be against it. Why? It lets them off the hook. Many a LBS has stood in D court, and when the WAS' infidelity came up for whatever reason, the WAS quickly said "the LBS did it too!" And even if it doesn't come up in D court, it certainly will come up with family, friends, and someday your kids. "Momma, what happened between you and daddy?" "Daddy and I were unhappy so we started seeing other people." Now she may say that anyway, but certainly you don't want it to be true! So you stay above her deplorable behavior by being a man only a fool would leave. And threatening to date an old flame ain't that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Telling her about an ex you’re talking to…that’s fairly manipulative, and a last ditch effort that will provide the opposite results you want unless your goal is to help her feel better about her behavior. What’s going to happen is you’re going to validate her behavior in her mind, push any chance right out the door, and odds are she’ll paint herself as the victim. Guarantee you’ll hear at some point that she was going to give it another shot until you cheated on her.
This is basic, two wrongs don’t make a right and attempting to hurt her feelings or scare her into acting right won’t have any positive lasting effects.
Ask yourself, why even open the can of worms talking to this woman if you want your marriage to work?
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
I haven't provided an update in a while, I've been GALing my brains out! Nephews hockey game, visiting parents, rented a cabin with my buddy for 3 days hiking and playing chess (as much as focus permitted given the situation).
I've also been spending as much time possible reading more threads as opposed to writing on this site to understand the different situations and suggestions.
My situation has developped a little. She's clear that we're separating and moving out. My wife has checked out. No MC, no discussions, no trial separation. She wants to plan the next steps for january, which is moving out or nesting. I'm letting her bring it up and will do my best to avoid nesting. Date is planned for January, if we make it until then. She doesn't sleep in the MBR with me anymore. Its all in, no looking back. I understand I need to get onboard and support/enable this. We'll keep seeing each other since we have our two daughters, so it will be the long game.
I'm doing the steps:
- Never initiate contact, live or via cell. - Be strong, calm and confident - Don't go out of my way for her, yet be supportive, kind and happy. - Make plans, stay busy, don't share info or what i'm doing. - Once the kids are in bed, I avoid the room she's in, unless I need something from there. - Clear communication, no flip-flop/unsure replies or decisions. Be the man I was the first 10 years of our relationship.
A few things I'm not sure about....
1- Should I go to divorce counselling with her? Is there anything in there that can be beneficial? Or is it ok to say, I'm not into it. I originally asked us to go to MC, but she shot that down, later suggested we could go, but she booked us divorce counselling as opposed to marriage counselling. I really love what Wayfarer suggested about discernment counseling. I really want to look into that, however I see that it can be seen as weak and not a good idea to ask her to attend if she's already checked out of the relationship. Any suggestions?
2- Is it considered weak or just being pleasant if I ask how a major, publicly known project she's working on is going in a supportive way? She's usually still polite with me, however she has no feelings left that can be hurt by our separation, that's just me. I feel its kinda rude and distant to just ignore someone you live with and have a 12 year history with. Doesn't it look like I'm playing a game if I just ignore her in that way? I don't hate her, I just hate the situation. I understand how we ended up here, I just wish she didn't give up so fast and brutally.
3- She's already single in her head and living that way. She's told me to start dating, that our relationship is over and its not cheating at this point. Drunken late night party's are forecasted the next few weeks. I'm asking myself if I can deal with her stumbling in at all hours of the night (and morning) under the same roof, or if I ask her to move out before our planned move out date in January? I've read that's its smart to stay under the same roof if possible. At what cost? I don't feel she'll respect the situation.
4- Also, I've read other threads where people suggest refusing all one on one invitations as well as extended family invites. Wouldn't it help with showing her how i've changed if we did spend some time together with others as well as alone? Or do I need to follow the instructions and stay on course?
5- An example: If I head out at lunch time and pick up something to eat for myself, is it ok to offer to pick her something up as well? Or is that being a lost nice guy?
6- Any suggestions from experienced members before she moves out? anything specific I should try to do before? I'll be straight up, my ideal long-term scenario is we reconcile. I know that means i need to let her go and find herself, as well as other men for the next while, however long that is. The long game is played through the kids I guess. I just feel that the time we're under the same roof should probably be used strategically? Or is that manipulative and false hope on my end? I think I know the answer.
Gotta run now, but I'll be back later for more updates and details, just wanted to put this out there for now. Thank you for reading and listening.
