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Good Morning El

Well done handling yourself during mediation. STBXH continued to play games and hide things right up to the moment; sheesh, what a pain in the butt he is being. Like you said, it’s now done. Another step along the journey and hard earned wisdom a plenty.

It’s pretty awesome when the universe positively reaches out to one. Yes, in person, real life, does have a different feeling/experience tied to it.

I’ve found it interesting the timing of such encounters; the came along right when I needed to hear it kind of thing. We do get back what we send out, positive begets positive. The universe listens as well as speaks it would seem.

Have a wonderful day.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Today, I literally started to have a panic or anxiety attack or what to me felt like one. Something happened today that just put me backwards again. And I tried to just move forward and focus on packing, but I just could not distract myself.

I’m not sure if I mentioned on here much that I have had a very hard time crying. I feel numb still and it is something I am talking with my IC about. But today, I cried. More than I have in a long time. What happened was just one of those “REALLY? NOW THAT TOO?” moments and I just crashed. My poor cat, who is pretty young still, was like “what are you doing? It’s strange” because she hasn’t seem me cry before. I was so upset that I had to take some calming aids and knock myself out for a few hours. Needless to say, the day wasn’t productive towards moving. And it needed to be.

I wrote to my IC and she responded with such care and support, which was needed, but she also said “I do find it very strange that life seems to be taking away any existence of your past with this relationship.” I won’t be sure what exactly she meant by this until we talk in person, but to me, I took it as the universe is really doing it’s darn best to ensure I never will go back to what my life was before. It just hurts too much and too deeply. I am wondering what the universe is really trying to teach me? I’m trying to listen. I’m trying my best to grow and move forward. But what the heck…does it have to be this darn hard?

Thanks D, the universe did send me a very nice positive message and it felt good. I need more of those positive moments.


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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Good Morning El

Sorry to hear your packing efforts were so derailed. Panic attacks do seem to come out of nowhere and hit with quite a wallop.

The numbness, the indifference, is such an strange new landscape, isn’t it? I assure you, this is temporary. Indifference does unwind. Feelings do return.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
wrote to my IC and she responded with such care and support, which was needed, but she also said “I do find it very strange that life seems to be taking away any existence of your past with this relationship.” I won’t be sure what exactly she meant by this until we talk in person, but to me, I took it as the universe is really doing it’s darn best to ensure I never will go back to what my life was before.

Sounds like you have a good support from a trusted IC. Her observation, in my opinion, is spot on.

As we walk through the numbness, the limbo, time fades what was once burning within our hearts and minds. This much needed reprieve allows us, the hurt LBS, to heal, take stock, look forward, align and strengthen our beliefs and values, and let go. All that happens as it happens. One doesn’t need to force any one item more than any other; and in truth progress happens best when one finds and is calm.

During our trek through this desert - this emotional limbo, this numb - feelings mute as well as thoughts and memories. Yes, life does seem to take away existence of our past relationship. All those painful memories and moments fade, and so does how we react, and so does our addiction to them. In short, we let go; in a weird kind of way. Weird since for most of us, we’ve never experience such a level of indifference before. Not towards anything, never mind the person we once called our loving spouse.

In time, we start to emerge from the desert. Rolling back the void is as strange as experiencing the numbness. Emotions return. We recall and remember. We feel. We cry. We hurt. All fully and yet somehow less. Ah, such is the power of healing.

We also laugh and love. And these positives are expressed and felt with more energy than we have felt in some time. Desires and passions return. And, if we have used our time wisely and well, we step out of the crucible quite shinny and bright. Pressure and stress does produce high quality gems; I believe that is analogous for people as well.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
It just hurts too much and too deeply.

(((Hugs)))

In no way am I attempting to invalidated your feelings. Oh yes, it hurts. I know. However, feelings appear and loom larger than they really are, against the backdrop of the void of numb. One not having felt them in a while does skew their amplitude a bit.

Another so interesting part of this. As we unwind indifference we unwind denial. Yep, that same denial from long ago. The very first step of grief.

We get blasted with such betrayal, disloyalty, and unfaithfulness, from a person we pretty much trusted absolutely. That is a lot to process. And a such we enter denial. That is a perfectly normal protective mechanism for our psyche, elsewise we’d have a complete breakdown.

Then the stages of grief progress - anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. We let go, we learn, we become indifferent, we feel again - all in conjunction with the various steps/stages of grief.

Rolling back indifference and beginning to feel again. Beginning to be able to feel again. Is a great sign of healing. I’m a huge proponent of keeping one’s heart soft and squishy, and this is a time when that really pays off. As one discovers their emotions again, a hardened heart will alter it a certain direction. Then again, so does a soft and squishy heart. Of the two, I much prefer the latter path/choice.

So as we are stepping towards acceptance, more is uncovered. Perfectly normal by the way. Way back at the bomb drop, we experienced utter shock and then emotionally denied and protected ourself. Then we walk our path, lots gets revealed, but not all. We aren’t/weren’t ready to accept it.

The fading of indifference seems to be around the time when the remainder of pain and events reveal themselves. Personally, that seems perfectly logical as until then we are still processing the first chunk of that bomb drop barrage. The second chuck is much less in size, and we are much better equipped. This particular “backslide” is quite normal and should be reasonably brief for one who has straightened out their convictions and life values.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I am wondering what the universe is really trying to teach me? I’m trying to listen. I’m trying my best to grow and move forward. But what the heck…does it have to be this darn hard?

The best lessons, the most needed lessons, the most worthy lessons are the hardest.

Pressure and stress makes the gem. Hang in there, and become the diamond you are.

D


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Agree with D… the biggest lessons in life are often the most painful. So glad your mediation is done and you can start to move beyond it. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. You will get there my friend.

The universe sent me a couple of people who have had similar experiences. One was a good friend of mine whose husband cheated on her when her one son was a toddler and the other an infant. She has long since remarried and her XH is now cheating on the woman he left her for. Some people clearly do not learn the lessons they need to.

The second person I met about four months after I discovered XH’s activities. I forced myself to go to a company Christmas party and sat down next to a woman I didn’t know. We got to chatting and she told her husband had suddenly moved out about three weeks before. No argument, no warning…she just came home from work one day to find him gone and a lot of their belongings along with him. What an a$$.

Anyway…it did help to know that there were others who had been through it and thrived (my friend) and who were also going through it at the time.

RE: crying. I could totally relate. It took me a long time to cry. I recall I had a couple of “good” ones but it took awhile. I think that is normal. I used to think that it was too painful for me to cry and that the crying would only come once enough time had passed that I could begin to process the loss. It was just too life altering to deal with it all at once.

Hang in there El. You got this. (((HUGS)))

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Originally Posted by Elbereth
Today, I literally started to have a panic or anxiety attack or what to me felt like one. Something happened today that just put me backwards again. And I tried to just move forward and focus on packing, but I just could not distract myself.

Dear El, I'm sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I’m not sure if I mentioned on here much that I have had a very hard time crying. I feel numb still and it is something I am talking with my IC about. But today, I cried. More than I have in a long time. What happened was just one of those “REALLY? NOW THAT TOO?” moments and I just crashed.

Crying is really a very good thing my dear. This means you are processing,

Originally Posted by Elbereth
It just hurts too much and too deeply. I am wondering what the universe is really trying to teach me? I’m trying to listen. I’m trying my best to grow and move forward. But what the heck…does it have to be this darn hard?

This is a question I also sometimes ask myself. You have to know that I'm an extremely positive person, some people used to say, even in the most difficult times, you still manage to see the positivity in things and make the best out of it. This unfortunately has not been the case for the past 3 years, although that person is coming back in bits and pieces.
Yes, the pain is just too extreme, too deep. But you will get through it. I promise.

xxx


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Originally Posted by Elbereth
Today, I literally started to have a panic or anxiety attack or what to me felt like one. Something happened today that just put me backwards again. And I tried to just move forward and focus on packing, but I just could not distract myself.

I’m not sure if I mentioned on here much that I have had a very hard time crying. I feel numb still and it is something I am talking with my IC about. But today, I cried. More than I have in a long time. What happened was just one of those “REALLY? NOW THAT TOO?” moments and I just crashed. My poor cat, who is pretty young still, was like “what are you doing? It’s strange” because she hasn’t seem me cry before. I was so upset that I had to take some calming aids and knock myself out for a few hours. Needless to say, the day wasn’t productive towards moving. And it needed to be.

I wrote to my IC and she responded with such care and support, which was needed, but she also said “I do find it very strange that life seems to be taking away any existence of your past with this relationship.” I won’t be sure what exactly she meant by this until we talk in person, but to me, I took it as the universe is really doing it’s darn best to ensure I never will go back to what my life was before. It just hurts too much and too deeply. I am wondering what the universe is really trying to teach me? I’m trying to listen. I’m trying my best to grow and move forward. But what the heck…does it have to be this darn hard?

Thanks D, the universe did send me a very nice positive message and it felt good. I need more of those positive moments.

{{{{{{{{Elbereth}}}}}}}

The day was productive towards your healing, which is more important right now than anything else.

I felt like I would never stop crying, that the world would drown from the sheer volume of tears I had to shed, so I let them out mostly a little at a time, then bottled it all back up so I could continue to function.

To me your IC's words mean that the universe is telling you that all the lessons you needed to learn from this relationship have happened, and now the path is clearing for you to move forward. I'd be interested to hear what your IC really meant.

I don't think butterflies have an easy time whilst in the cocoon. Their bodies have to completely change, and then they have to push themselves out into a vast, new world before they fully emerge in all their beauty and glory. You're in the cocoon. It's not supposed to be comfortable and cozy. It's supposed to hurt. But it also won't always be this way. xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Thank you everyone. It feels like a big hug to have you there for me, even if it’s not in real life…it is still powerful and important. Thank you for that, and for walking on this journey with me.

My SIL is coming to help with my move. I am grateful and she is amazing, but a part of me is a bit nervous about spending this much time with her…in the sense that I am afraid of sharing too much or saying things that might get in the way of maintaining a relationship post D. I believe my STBXHs family loves me and they do not understand why he did what he did. And I’m doing my best to avoid being the person who goes around spreading ugly truths. But sometimes, when I get worked up inside, I find my mouth just keeps going to try to release the pain or pressure I am feeling…or to try to help others understand so that I feel heard and seen.

I’m just so tired. I was very sad yesterday because the whole day had gone by and I did not hear from my SS’s for Mother’s Day. Finally, late in the evening I heard from one of them. The other one I heard from this am, but it was just an update, as if he had no idea of what the day was. Which could be the case…so I’m trying to accept that. But, I spent the whole day yesterday feeling sad and forgotten or like I didn’t matter. I did go for a long walk and did self care, but it was not a nice Mother’s Day for me. Heard and seen. I think this is one of the main areas I need help with. I think I thought of myself as a strong and independent woman, but I am really just a little girl who feels invalidated, invisible, and not seen. Add in the invisible step-mom and yesterday sucked.

My IC told me that my nervous system is overloaded. I think that also means that I have not processed a lot. And I think I’ve been in transition so long that I haven’t had the opportunity to do that. So I am trying to look forward to getting into this apartment and the D finalized. I still have the loss of my job and having to find a new one, but I’m hoping that will contribute to feeling like I have a fresh start versus this feeling of numbness and being stuck that I feel like I am in.

I no longer want STBXH back. I know that would be a huge mistake. And I don’t see it ever happening even he comes back around again. And I do think he will try to come back. My IC said the same thing. But, I think that my eyes have been opened to fact that he is so lost in his own depression that he is the type of person that will take and take and take, and never give. He proved that to me. And I see his role in doing that to his first W too. I’m sure from the outside others think that I am over here pining for him, but the truth is this experience put me into crises. It’s shattered my world and my sense of self. Should I be DBing and out there acting like I’ve moved on and like I’m strong? Or is that only a good thing to do if you want your WAS back?


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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Hello El

I’m glad you are getting some help with the move.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I’m doing my best to avoid being the person who goes around spreading ugly truths.

That is a wise course of action.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I’m sure from the outside others think that I am over here pining for him, but the truth is this experience put me into crises. It’s shattered my world and my sense of self.

I was shattered too. My world blown apart. And I felt like a little invisible boy.

You have a rare blessing. A gift many many people will never experience, nor realize how valuable this can truly be.

You get to rebuild yourself. Examine each piece of you, your world, your beliefs, before reassembling. Consider how that piece serves, who it serves. Discard those pieces that need discarding. Build with only the best. Take the needed time to do it well. Build a strong foundation. It is such a golden opportunity.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
Should I be DBing and out there acting like I’ve moved on and like I’m strong? Or is that only a good thing to do if you want your WAS back?

The advice and suggestions are for you. Regardless if you want your WAS back or not, regardless if they come back or not, it is always a good thing to live fully and be strong.

Should you be DBing and out there acting like you’ve moved on and like you’re strong? How about keep moving forward. You don’t need to decide if you’ve moved on or not, just keep moving forward.

DBing has many benefits beyond reconciliation. The primary benefit is us. The lessons we learn, the growth and experiences we gain, the wisdom and altering of our world view, is amazing. Truly, reconciliation is a bonus.

Acting as if, is a necessary technique while starting out and finding our way. Eventually, although it does take a conscious purposefully effort, one comes to: Do or do not. The acting or emulating does become our behaviour. It becomes no longer acting and becomes ingrained living. Sincere and authentic.

As we let go our errant spouse, our initial reasons for standing come into question and become somewhat moot. We all started out standing for our spouse and our marriage. We let go of that, so what do we stand for? Stand for you.

Standing is the default initial position. We are so hurt that standing just happens. It’s why we find ourselves here. As we heal, and let go, we realize we “can” stand down. That is when standing really starts; when we are strong enough to stand down.

Stand for you. Your values. Your beliefs. Stand for you. Utilize DB techniques and keep gaining and healing. This part of the journey is where you and your spouse’s paths diverge, and you stand for you. You find your strength, and realize you are visible and heard - since you live it.

Maybe paths converge later, maybe they don’t. Even if your paths do meet and mingle again, you may not reconcile. For the moment, you don’t want him and never see that changing. That might just be true. Or…, well the future is unknown. I do agree he has a lot of healing to do before you should or would even consider such a thing.

For what it’s worth, keep standing and DBing, just got to shift the focus a bit. Focus on you. Stand for you.

D


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Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Hello,

D, I do think I am trying to stand for myself. I think the hard part is that I feel so off balance. But I know I am taking steps and moving forward, and as you have said before, that is a good thing. I am anxious to work deeper on my feelings, but my IC is waiting until I am more settled after my move to really get into things. But having her to talk to has helped.

I’ve been sorting and packing for the move. It’s been bittersweet I must admit. More letting go of dreams. For example, I had collected many magazines about old home ownership and remodeling, and now that my home is gone…I tossed all of them. There are other things, big and small, that I am donating or getting rid of. And it hurts. But without knowing if I will have a home large enough to hold these things, I feel I have to let some of it go. I don’t want to pour all my savings into tons of storage. I worry I will have regrets. So that has been hard for me.

I think STBXH got word that his relatives are coming to help me with the move. He inserted himself in trying to get S19 to help me with the move even though I already hired movers and S19 has finals this week. Oddly, I had already spoken to S19 earlier in the day and found the whole thing confusing, as it was already settled. Guilt maybe?

I also heard that some friends of friends that are aware of the situation and spend time near where he lives interacted with him at a restaurant where casual conversation led to the discovery of the connection. When my friend asked how he seemed/looked, they said he looked really rough, unkept, and heavy. So much for the guy who felt the need to leave me because I wasn’t active enough for him. I personally think he is dealing with a lot of demons….as he should be since he chose to live outside of his integrity and character. Or at least what he claimed to have.

I was reading your thread and the discussions of the changes in personality. I do think I saw those weird changes too. I think for my XH, there is a teen or college aged version of him that is the main one running. I do know that the look in his eyes changed over time. But I also think he is a covert narcissist. When I look back on events in our MR, I see many times where he had no empathy for my feelings or needs. And when I expressed concern or frustrations, he told me I was too sensitive or that my feelings were wrong, or things twisted around to how I selfish to feel the way I felt. He also alienated many people in my life and made it seem like they were not worthy of me, but in reality, I think it was because others recognized his behaviors and he didn’t like that. Whenever I tried to set any boundaries, we would fight and he’d blame me for being selfish or controlling. I started surrendering to his feelings and needs and giving in, even though it hurt, because it felt better than fighting. I started to become used to not being seen, not being able to have boundaries, not being treated with dignity and respect. I became used to feeling shut down and drained. I got used to being resentful. Looking back, I realize that I looked forward to times he worked out of town so that I could get enough sleep, be alone with my thoughts, do what I need to do for my health and well-being, and start to feel like myself again. Even though I still feel that I loved him, or the him I fell in love with, in the end, he is the type of person that will suck the life out of you and then blame you for trying to set limits. It’s only a matter of time before his current relationship falls apart.

So in short, I do think there is a MLC crises at play as well as I think he is a covert narcissist. In some ways, this realization allows me to move on with no hope of standing for him or the MR. It is knowledge that also helps me to stand for myself. But with the way my MR was, and how I lost myself, I think I am trying to rebuild myself most of all. I have no idea of what I want or where I should go…because for so long I put the family before myself. And having my feelings invalidated for so long, I struggle to even recognize them for what they can tell me. I believed some of the things he told me, and I think I have some of my own baggage from how I was raised to work through as well. I’m trying to get to the point that I am excited about the growth and my future, but I’m still in the feeling overwhelmed stage. I’m hoping that once the move is done and I get a job or income that I’ll feel a bit more on my feet.

Thanks for listening and for the support.

El


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



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Good Morning El

Originally Posted by Elbereth
I do think I am trying to stand for myself.

I believe you are as well.

With moving, downsizing, and all, it’s reasonable to feel off balance.

I do agree with letting go items that you do not know if you will be able to utilize in the future. Yes, a storage invoice is an expense you don’t need.

The hurt is of course more from emotional attachment than the donating or loss of the actual material item. That worry of possible future regret(s) will dissipate. Keep items of significant heirloom value, and if in the future you find you need something you tossed - just go buy it. Overall, I think you will have little regrets following the strategy you are currently doing. As difficult as it currently is. (((Hug)))

It is interesting to hear about STBXH’s appearance. Under all the facade, bravado, brashness, exhibited confidence, and drive to divorce and destroy, lives their hurt that propelled them in the first place. And those demons extract a toll. In the stillness of night, laying with just themselves and their actions, how many sleep soundly.

These lost souls get emotionally dragged back to their unrealized buried trauma(s) and need to grow up from there, and from then. It is pretty weird to see someone behaving and living and feeling from such a time shifted perspective. Of course, if you didn’t previously know them, it would be less apparent. And the MLCer “runs” and doesn’t exhibit these behaviours all the time, which adds to the weirdness. A crisis is no small thing.

Originally Posted by Elbereth
It is knowledge that also helps me to stand for myself. But with the way my MR was, and how I lost myself, I think I am trying to rebuild myself most of all. I have no idea of what I want or where I should go…because for so long I put the family before myself. And having my feelings invalidated for so long, I struggle to even recognize them for what they can tell me. I believed some of the things he told me, and I think I have some of my own baggage from how I was raised to work through as well. I’m trying to get to the point that I am excited about the growth and my future, but I’m still in the feeling overwhelmed stage. I’m hoping that once the move is done and I get a job or income that I’ll feel a bit more on my feet.

“I have no idea of what I want or where I should go…” (((Hugs)))

Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. Alter or discard that which does not serve.

I remember being lost too. I had poisonous words from J within me ears and heart. Poison that I needed to transmute. And I remember rebuilding myself, piece by piece. Examining each “block” and deciding which truly mattered and served.

Beliefs, convictions, and values - so very slow to change. Take your time, and (re)build well. You have the gift of time.

Looking back, all my feelings, my fears, my doubts, my lost confidence, the feeling of being an imposter in my own life, all of that - is absent. Feelings really are fleeting.

We are the lucky few. Seriously, this unwanted difficult path which we are forced upon is a golden opportunity, a blessing a rare few will ever get. And even rarer few will fully embrace.

This overwhelming stage is perfectly normal; you’ve got lots going on right now in your life too other than all this inner work. You will find your balance, land firmly upon your feet, and be excited about your future. I’ve no doubt, the indicators of such are written within your posts.

Keep moving forward El. You so got this.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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