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Originally Posted by DnJ
That was a purposeful and rationally negotiated transaction that in part limited your amount and duration of requisite alimony.
If this is true don't throat punch your lawyer. Your money is funny and maybe your laws are too lol.
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kml Offline
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LH it’s pretty standard for the spouse receiving alimony to have a life insurance policy on the spouse paying alimony and/or child support. I paid for the insurance on my exH in my divorce agreement - but didn’t mind because at least that way I could ensure that it was paid.

Funny story though - it was an insurance policy that we (I) already owned and it was almost exactly the amount of the ten years of alimony I was owed. A few years in, he insisted I reduce the policy by half so I wouldn’t “profit” from his death. Like I was gonna hire somebody to whack him! Can’t help but think that was a bit of projection - had it crossed his mind to have ME whacked so he didn’t have to pay me alimony?

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Originally Posted by kml
LH it’s pretty standard for the spouse receiving alimony to have a life insurance policy on the spouse paying alimony and/or child support.
Is it standard for the person paying the premium be the one paying the alimony?

I can get on board with child support but definitely not alimony.

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My ex and I both need to have a life insurance policy so our child is taken care of in the event of our death.

Never have I heard of having a life insurance policy to cover alimony. If anything I would have a very separate on that changes yearly in regards to how much money is owed at that point.

A 250k policy on 50k of alimony is ridiculous .

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
My ex and I both need to have a life insurance policy so our child is taken care of in the event of our death.
This makes sense.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
Never have I heard of having a life insurance policy to cover alimony.
This sounds crazy that's why I wondered if it's the law or at that point Andy P was trying to nice her back?


I could see when you get down to the last alimony check you end up swimming with the fishes.

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Originally Posted by kml
Funny story though - it was an insurance policy that we (I) already owned and it was almost exactly the amount of the ten years of alimony I was owed. A few years in, he insisted I reduce the policy by half so I wouldn’t “profit” from his death. Like I was gonna hire somebody to whack him! Can’t help but think that was a bit of projection - had it crossed his mind to have ME whacked so he didn’t have to pay me alimony?
Right now she'd be ahead money if something happened to me - my close friends were all warned early in the process to be suspicious if anything happened to me. On the other hand a couple of them hinted that they "knew a guy" - didn't go down that road - the cuckolded husband who just made a large cash withdrawal is undoubtedly suspicious crazy And I really didn't want any real harm to come to her.

I have 3 policies on myself right now, a larger term life with the kids as beneficiaries, one from work again with the kids as beneficiaries and this smaller whole life policy. When I can get her name off it, I'll cancel the term life and keep the whole life. By that time too, the amount the kids will need to settle the estate (my purpose for having life insurance with adult beneficiaries) will be smaller too. The one through work, which is substantial would be a bonus for them although I have no intention on dying anytime soon.

As the significantly higher earner, I just look at this as a bit of extra non-deductable alimony that I pay. If I didn't pay it directly, I probably would be paying her more each month. It does frost my cookies to see her name on that policy every year though. It took years and multiple attempts to get her off other things, especially my pensions which I got to keep in full as part of the deal. Unless OM has money, which I doubt, she's going to struggle during retirement I'm sure. Again, I don't know for sure, but if she's using all of the money she got from me for her house - which makes sense, the numbers add up, and she's certainly no dummy when it comes to finance - then that will certainly help although she would have to move out to realize the results of that investment. Our original plan for us was to pay the house right off and then when we could no longer maintain it - which had been planned for around now due to her pain and mobility issues - we would move into a smaller place and invest the proceeds from the house into an annuity.

I was honestly surprised after she got that first big cheque from me when the house settled that she didn't go out and blow a chunk of it on trips or cars. One of the main indicators that OM didn't come in to the relationship with the bankroll that I had though he had and that she had been bragging to her friends about. There certainly are no indicators that they are living large.


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I just love you, Andrew! I have been having a few down days this week and your posts this morning actually made me chuckle aloud and smile, albeit for a rather dark reason...............

I am a HUGE fan of true crime shows on television. I swear I must have been an investigator or something in another life because they just fascinate me. One of my favorites is "Snapped". I joke to Sparky all the time that I watch these shows for the educational value and the number 1 lesson I have learned is that when I kill him for his life insurance money, I have to be sure that I do NOT go buy myself new boobs straight away, move to a fancy house, buy a new car, or take an extended tropical vacation because then I will be the prime suspect. We have a running dialogue about this frequently and we both think we're very funny, though as I type this I think people would probably think we were just both crazier than Bessie bugs.

Your posts made me think of these little banter sessions Sparky and I have occasionally and reminded me of why he and I just fit. We have the same warped sense of humor. Like I said, WE think we're funny. LOL

(For the record, Sparky has a modest life insurance policy that his mother is currently the sole beneficiary on (set up before I came into the picture) and we opted to leave it that way so that if something happens to him, she is taken care of. When she is gone, we'll switch it to me. I say all that lest someone think that I'm seriously considering the plastic surgery option...................LOL)


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Dawn - can you be put on the insurance policy as a secondary beneficiary - that is, you get the money if she has already passed? That way, if, say, she passes in a car accident at the same time as Sparky, or Sparky is incapacitated and unable to give his consent to the change when she dies, you're still covered. You might want to speak to the insurance agent to see if that's possible to do.

As for who pays for the alimony insurance - seems like sometimes it's the payer and sometimes the payee. Like I said, I was happy to pay it because then I could be sure it would be paid - it was all too easy for me to imagine my ex "forgetting" to make the payments. And of course it makes sense - if I had gotten a lump sum in place of alimony, I would still have that money even if ex died in the first year after a divorce. We are talking a substantial amount of alimony here, so it was an important asset to be protected.

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Originally Posted by kml
Dawn - can you be put on the insurance policy as a secondary beneficiary - that is, you get the money if she has already passed? That way, if, say, she passes in a car accident at the same time as Sparky, or Sparky is incapacitated and unable to give his consent to the change when she dies, you're still covered. You might want to speak to the insurance agent to see if that's possible to do.

Honestly had not even thought about it. The only discussion we had was that we left her as his beneficiary on his just so she would be taken care of and the burden wouldn't fall to me if he were somehow removed from the picture.


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Just in case there are any newbies reading along, one of the most important pieces of advice I got was to treat the separation agreement / settlement as a business deal.

Here, in a no-fault jurisdiction, the provincial Family Law Act provides some fairly clear guidelines on how a settlement should be structured. It boils down to all assets including pensions being chain-sawed down the middle and the use of a formula to calculate child and spousal support. Spousal support is intended on allowing both parties to be able to maintain a lifestyle similar to what they had previously and is expected to carry over the lower income spouse until they can manage that on their own. EXCEPT for something called "The Rule of 65" which can extend support indefinitely if age + years married is greater than 65 which was certainly the case in my situation. This makes sense to me. An older person has less chance of ramping up their employment opportunities especially if they have been out of the workforce / minimally employed for many years as is the case for many women of my generation.

What is important to remember is that here at least, this is not "the Law", just guidelines that the courts can impose if a couple can't come to an agreement.

Since people's situations can change, the courts allow you to give lawyers more money to go back and get alterations to the agreement as situations change. When the papers were being drawn up, my XW was living alone working her job at the convenience store and "just happened to be dating someone who she started seeing long after she moved out - honest". So me earning 3 X the income certainly could be expected to kick in to top up her income as there was no legally apparent indication that any other income source from OM or other places would be showing up. As it was, it was at least another year before he sold his house and moved in with her into her apartment over the liquor store.

So - I could have started paying significantly more per month than I am now and then if/as her circumstances changed, or mine did, go back to the lawyers for a fresh agreement.

One important thing my lawyer said though stuck with me. People lie.

So - I in part played on her greed and perhaps guilt and struck a deal where a key component was that it could not be opened up again. My XW was horrified that her affair could come to light and be part of the court records so I knew she wouldn't want to go back to court again - so having something cast in stone was certainly in her interest. At the time as well I was supporting our adult son. Whether she was counting on OM having money or not at that point is a moot point but played into my reasoning in that she could get both his and my money.

Prior to this as well, I had met with my banker and asked what the limit would be on the cash I could get out of the house or on a line so I knew how much I had available.

So during the collaborative law sessions, when papers started being handed around as the lawyers followed standard practices (even though I'd told mine I wanted to negotiate specific proposals), I stopped that and pitched my I think 3 or 4 options. We had just about been to sign that my XW would get 50% of the net value of the house.

I made my pitch, they went out of the room to talk, came back with a slightly modified version and I think my lawyer hurt her foot kicking me whispering "take it take it take it".

With this agreement in place, I don't have to consider my XW's financial or relationship status at all for my own future planning. Is OM broke, or are they just living modestly with a big bank account? Doesn't matter to me - literally none of my business. And I don't have to worry about her hiding or lying about things or visa versa. I've gotten some nice raises since we split and overall now that I've recovered from the financial hit of having S and her crew under my roof, have a financial position that is just slightly better than what existed in the last years of the marriage.

Quick back of the envelope math tells me that the policy I'm paying for would have covered about 50% of the total support obligation and currently about 150%. Since I'm just a guy who waves a clipboard this is a decent amount of cash but certainly not something to do anything rash about.

The positives of being able to keep my pensions, the family home which I find comfortable and affordable, and to know that there is an end date certainly are good things for me. If I were in her shoes I certainly would be watching that monthly counter tick over with growing concern. She's getting about 33% of her income from that payment ignoring inflation and had little in the way of retirement savings when we split. She may have gotten a legacy from her parents when they passed but it wouldn't be a lot as her father was very bad with money. OM - assuming that he has life insurance - as a former small business owner a lot of things get skipped - it's probably for his own kids and grandkids.


Originally Posted by kml
That way, if, say, she passes in a car accident at the same time as Sparky, or Sparky is incapacitated and unable to give his consent
Just as an aside, I hope you have considered getting your wills and power of attorney in place. My lawyer charged a discounted fee to do both at once and another discount if both sides of a couple got everything done at once.


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