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#2923453 09/13/21 01:23 PM
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Wolfman Offline OP
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=63263&Number=2922903#Post2922903

That is the previous link.
Things with the GF are getting better. I am learning to be patient, that she just wants the best for our baby. Also, realize that she is going through changes hormonally and slack of sleep. I am working on not taking things so personally and just moving forward. The nice thing is to see my GF and my son starting to build a relationship again. They are talking more and joking more. It really makes me so happy. I hope it will continue. My son loves his baby brother, I knew once he saw him and was around him, his feelings would change. I don’t think there is anything his mother could do at this point to sabotage that. I took my son out to Dave and Busters and he wanted to win his baby brother a prize, which he did and was so happy about. These are the things I love and make me so happy.

As far as my daughter. It is really hard for me. She just continues to bash me and say how horrible I was (which most of the time is not true). I am trying to listen and validate, but when they are straight up lies or not even. Close to the truth I feel a need to defend myself. The therapist is starting to see more through her bs, and the therapist said she is seeing more and more alienation. She also told me that if things don’t improve soon, she is going to recommend to the court a forensic psychologist. I really hope so, it needs to be documented that their is alienation and she needs the proper therapist to address this. I miss my daughter so much and I am missing out on so much time with her!!!


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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Hey Wolf, glad your life is going better this week!

Cultivating patience is great. Listening if your GF's expressing something about what urges and non-urges her hormones are giving her is great. If you're working as a team, you're almost as sleep-deprived as her, yes? I'd caution post-pregnancy is when my marriage turned sexless and 1-2yrs later divorce. I think we had more sex the week I filed than the whole year before that, lol. If she's had time to physically recover, strive for a balance between your needs and her needs. Be wary of ignoring your needs too long to be "nice", keep the peace, and people-please. Ignoring your needs builds resentment. Resentment leads to anger. Anger leads to the dark side. Wait.. that's Star Wars, nor Doctor Phil. Sorry, watching too many movies lately. wink



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Originally Posted by Wolfman
As far as my daughter. It is really hard for me. She just continues to bash me and say how horrible I was (which most of the time is not true). I am trying to listen and validate, but when they are straight up lies or not even. Close to the truth I feel a need to defend myself.

If your D says, "It was horribly unfair, hypocritical that you didn't let me play games on my computer when I hadn't finished studying, but you were enjoying browsing the Internet before you completed the laundry." -- I get it can be challenging separating out her feeling that she was treated unfairly, her accusation that you're hypocritical, and your disagreement about a fact such as whether or not you browsed the Internet before completing the laundry. Except where you have proof, neither of you is the ultimate arbiter of facts. Her beliefs about what happened are as valid as your beliefs.

Once I told my XGF she had yelled at me. She disagreed. I happened to have an audio clip proving it! Assume the recording was not underhanded. Would you take the curious approach, "It sounded like you yelled at me. This is what it sounded like.." or the right-fighting approach. "That's a lie, and I have an audio clip proving it.."

Upon listening, she said, "I raised my voice. I didn't yell."



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So the last therapy session went rough. The therapist wants us to do list of the talking. It’s more of an interrogatation. I ask a question and she gives me 2 word answers. I ask her open ended questions like, tell me about your school day? She will answer, I don’t know. Then I say can you tell me how your classes are going. I get, good. Tell me about your teachers? She replies, they are fine. Thanks here is no point. Anyway at the end. The therapist said she is going to tell my lawyer that we need forensics and that she sees parent alienation and for forensics to get involved now. We have been going 2 and a half months and have made zero progress. The therapist said to me at the end, she has never seen a child behave the way my daughter behaves. I really hope, finally someone will help me. By getting forensics involved and when they determine parent alienation, then I can get a therapist who specializes in parental alienation. There is a nationally renowned parental alienation specialist right by me. I am hoping to get her with the help of forensics and the court. Anyway.

C.W I appreciate that you have stuck with me. I don’t come on here that much, so busy with the baby and running around for my son.

Slowly my gf and s relationship is getting better, they are talking more and joking around. Last night the 3 of us played cards for an hour after we put the baby to bed. I am trying very hard to bring them together. It’s taken a lot of patience and the birth of the baby has seen to help.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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A bit of advice, for whatever it is worth, in regards to the relationship between your S and your GF. This comes from my own experience and you should absolutely feel free to take it or leave it as you see fit. No pushing or judgment on my part, just putting it out there for you to think about. When I first started dating my XH, his 3 daughters were 12, 14, and 16. (I think your son is a little younger than that, but it really doesn't matter, my advice will be the same, as it isn't necessarily age dependent).

My youngest stepdaughter took to me quickly and easily, but she was a happy, unbothered child and is still pretty much the same as an adult. When I met the middle daughter, she took to me easily as well, mainly because she had issues with her own mom and she craved a female presence in her life that she wasn't getting from her mom. The oldest was going through some very typical teenage girl drama and having some big issues with both of her parents and some other things I won't go into, so I knew that connecting to her would be more challenging. I kind of sat back and let her take the lead in how she came to me. I was always open and friendly with her but didn't push. Think about little kids and how they explore things and how they join groups of their peers. They'll act aloof at first, then when no one is really paying attention, they'll jump right in the middle of whatever is going on with both feet and reckless abandon. So, I sat back and waited for her to come to me.

My advice to you is to not push your S or your GF too hard toward each other or you will likely get the opposite of the desired reaction and they will actually both kind of balk and repel each other. Let them interact naturally. Now, of course, as the adult, the onus is on your girlfriend to respond in a positive manner when your S tries to interact with her, even if she might not be feeling it in that particular moment, but a brief conversation with your S in that moment will go a LONG way to helping him feel like she really cares. I think you have to let them find their own way naturally and not try to force it or always be the mediator. (By the way, I'm NOT saying you are trying to force anything...I'm just saying to resist that temptation.)

You may be right about the baby helping to bridge the gap, for a number of reasons. Whatever it is, it is nice to hear that you all are interacting as a unit. A strong, steady, stable environment is really what kids need most.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships)
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Wolfman,
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I ask her open ended questions like, tell me about your school day? She will answer, I don’t know. Then I say can you tell me how your classes are going. I get, good. Tell me about your teachers? She replies, they are fine.
For what it's worth, and I'm not saying this is the case with you & your daughter, but those are the typical responses I get from S6 when I ask about his school day. I have no reason to think it's anything to do with the D - think he just doesn't want to talk about it or go into specifics. When he does want to talk about something there is a spark and he'll go into detail and tell me all about it.

Originally Posted by Dawn70
I knew that connecting to her would be more challenging. I kind of sat back and let her take the lead in how she came to me. I was always open and friendly with her but didn't push. Think about little kids and how they explore things and how they join groups of their peers. They'll act aloof at first, then when no one is really paying attention, they'll jump right in the middle of whatever is going on with both feet and reckless abandon. So, I sat back and waited for her to come to me.

My advice to you is to not push your S or your GF too hard toward each other or you will likely get the opposite of the desired reaction and they will actually both kind of balk and repel each other. Let them interact naturally.
I'm not expert, but this seems like good advice. It's like the cat analogy on this board...sit back and let them come to you, and hope it develops over time. If you force it they might rebel more.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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Dawn and BL42, I completely understand where you are going from. I don’t want to push to hard but I also feel like I need to do something. I kinda offered suggestions on what we can do and what they can do, if that makes sense. I didn’t want to do nothing, I felt I had to try a little. I am just happy to see it moving in a positive direction. I hope it continues. It so hard to believe where I was 3 years ago compared to today. Never would I have thought my life would have turned out this way. I bet everyone else on here feels the same. Thank you for the advice I always appreciate it.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
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Originally Posted by Wolfman
The therapist said to me at the end, she has never seen a child behave the way my daughter behaves. The therapist said she is going to tell my lawyer.. that she sees parent alienation and for forensics to get involved now.
It must be validating to hear a professional say that she sees parental alienation. I hope that process leads to improvements in how you and your ex talk about and interact with each other for your D or even your S.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
The therapist wants us to do list of the talking. It’s more of an interrogatation. I ask a question and she gives me 2 word answers. I ask her open ended questions like, tell me about your school day? She will answer, I don’t know. Then I say can you tell me how your classes are going. I get, good. Tell me about your teachers? She replies, they are fine. Thanks here is no point.
Like BL42, I was going to say--this could easily be my teen on the right day, lol. Is your therapist giving you guidance on how to converse effectively? E.g., small talk, being light, and building up from questions requiring short, simple answers to ones requiring longer answers? That sort of conversation definitely feels frustrating, but when you think "There is no point", consider info about her teacher isn't as important as being in the same room as your D with opportunities to show her that you love her and are willing to meet her where she is. The last time I gave my parents a chance to talk to me in person.. 2-3yrs ago.. I know I shut down whenever they pried for personal details such as my hobbies, work, love life, etc. but I was willing to engage with them when they talked about the weather or non-political current events or the natural things around us. I had a couple of phone calls with them last year and said I'd try to stop by this summer, but they began pressuring me for dates, so I broke off contact again.

Anyway, another topic you might consider chatting with your therapist about.

I'm so glad you and your S are on a positive arc! Dave & Buster's together--HUGE! Keep offering him opportunities to spend fun time 1:1 with you. I wish I'd used a much lighter hand when it came to integrating my family and my XGF's family. Blending two families together is such a delicate thing. Wishing you much success. (:



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Originally Posted by Wolfman
So the last therapy session went rough. The therapist wants us to do list of the talking. It’s more of an interrogatation. I ask a question and she gives me 2 word answers. I ask her open ended questions like, tell me about your school day? She will answer, I don’t know. Then I say can you tell me how your classes are going. I get, good. Tell me about your teachers? She replies, they are fine.

Wolfman, can I offer a suggestion? As a mother to four, in the midst of a D, I was the gatekeeper for all my children's daily comings and goings and all the external fixings of their lives. For their entire lives. Not by choice, but by survival. H traveled a lot for work and didn't (and honestly probably still doesn't) know the names of our children's teachers, or all the sports' coaches etc. We are working on correcting that, but honestly, it is public information that any parent has access to, even ones without custody.

The questions you are asking are ripe for such responses from your D. Superficial and perfunctory. But what if you knew who she had as her algebra teacher? What if you knew what soccer coach she had? You could ask much more leading questions like 'where do you sit in algebra class with Mr D? Is he sooo boring and only calls on the kids in the front of the class? And soccer coach x? Is she a fair coach that lets all the kids play or does she have favorites?' These sorts of questions tell your D that you are invested, if even from afar. That you actually know what is going on in her life, that you actually care enough to follow it.

I find that in my non-custody time with my kids, we have nightly conversations (instigated by them) where I am able to ask relevant questions about their day-to-day lives because I am keeping up with their day-to-day lives, even if I am not seeing them daily. It takes a lot of work on my part to know what they're up to, but the dividends are huge. H doesn't prioritize that. So when he calls on my custody time, he asks them what they've been up to. Which they are too bored or exhausted to catch him up on, and the conversation sizzles.

Keep the conversation relevant by doing your homework up front. Ask questions that let her know you are keeping up with her, whether she wants you to or not. It proves to her that no matter how long-armed-length she keeps you, nothing will deter YOU from knowing HER. It's the ultimate declaration of love, a la The Runaway Bunny book (if you become a sailboat, I will become the wind to guide you back to me).

You've got a lot on your plate. But investments made now will produce dividends in the future and are totally worth it. Keep trying, keep failing, and get up and try again. Ignore the fact of whether parental alienation is present or not, it matters not a whit in the end-game of a relationship with your daughter. A legal definition is only that at the end of the day. Only you have control of what your relationship will be with D.

((Wolfman))

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I definitely agree with all sage and dawn said.

I have a very very close relationship with my daughter. She’s been my sidekick from birth and it’s been just me and her when I’m my home for 14 years. If I ask her a question like “how was school” I get the very same responses like you do. Now….. I am the only parent in the know just sage. I know her teachers, her curriculum, her electives, I speak to other parents about school stuff, I read all the emails. So when I ask more pointed questions, I get more enthusiastic detailed replies. My daughter sends me all her papers to sign even when she’s at her dads. I help her with her homework even when she’s at her dads. I know it’s harder for you since you can’t be with her , but sage gave excellent advice to get in the know. It’s going to take a lot of work.

I think one of the hardest things for you do do is what you need to do. You need to keep YOUR feelings out of it. How much it hurts you she doesn’t talk, how much it hurts you that you aren’t in the know, how much all of this hurts you. I understand it does, but you cannot make any of this about the effect it has on YOU while you are trying to rebuild. It’s got to be focused on her. She’s a kid and been through a true emotional ringer . Show up, be consistent, put the effort in, and just don’t make this about you.

And dawn is right about how you have to let the relationship between your GF and son happen organically. You can’t force it. You can encourage what they cultivate, but you can’t push either . They may honestly never be at the level you want them to be. Your son has also been through an unbelievable emotional ringer and his world has flipped so many times. Divorce, new GF, new half brother in a very short period of time. I couldn’t even imagine. He only needs to be made comfortable. He needs to be heard. I’ve dated 2 guys with kids that I have met and we got really close. It happened very organically, nothing forced, no pressure at all. They came to me, and left myself open for that to happen. Your son also knows this woman is a mom to a baby that is shared by the both of you. That has to be hard to wrap his head around right now. And he sounds like he is doing good. But any trying too hard to push together might drive them apart. Be open, be comfortable, don’t make anything about either of you, and things will progress

I don’t envy you wolfman. And my heart certainly aches for your kids. This is a time in your life where you are going to have to be completely selfless with your kids emotionally. Remember, this is hard for you, but the changes and turmoil they have gone through at their young ages are astronomical and in quite a short period of time. The adjusting will take a while

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