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DnJ #2926899 12/02/21 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I do hope she can still have a little joy in her life, because it currently looks like there is absolutely no such thing.

To exist in a joyless life, tormented by past traumas, tortured by terrible deeds and actions taken while running, my goodness! Like I’ve said, I’d not wish MLC upon anyone.

I’ve stated and prayed, if she truly cannot ever emerge from her crisis, I hope she remains blissfully lost within her fantasy.

But her journey has never been up to me.
Just as a caution - it's not just the leaving spouse who pops out during holidays, it's also us LBS. We reminisce and muse. There are many reminders all around of "what was".

As a minor nudge though, just be careful that you're not projecting how you hope she feels on to her. Unlike me, you do have some actual first-hand evidence of a life lived that in comparison is certainly "less than". But you cannot know how she actually feels about it.

For some reason our old friend Westo was called to mind. You may recall that her husband actually came home and as far as I'm aware they are living a decent life. The reason it came to mind was around the circumstances involving his return. He was unhappy living with OW and if I recall she threatened suicide if he left. After a couple of aborted attempts he moved back home - he was supposed to transit via living elsewhere but didn't. One big difference between this case and most is that he was in constant contact with Westo regularly dropping by, fixing things around the house and paying the bills. Westo did take the lessons learned here and became a stronger, more self-aware person but still it was a very tough road for her.

I'm sure you know that you and I disagree on the basic concept of MLC and crisis. Personally I still feel that my xW was fully aware of what she was doing at the time, just rather deluded about the impact of the choices made. For me, I'm confident that my xW has embraced the life she leads and does her best to bury any ghosts with whatever self-justification works for her. This despite at the time believing quite strongly that she would "come to her senses".

I cannot know, but expect that J has made similar choices. Accepting the life she has and willingly albeit reluctantly, paying the price for it. It may not be what she was seeking but it's what she has.

Just my 2 cents.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
DnJ #2926930 12/03/21 04:25 AM
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Hello Andrew

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I'm sure you know that you and I disagree on the basic concept of MLC and crisis.

Yes, I know. smile And still we are friends.

For me, there is too much testimony of MLC behaviour to disregard it, IMHO. I’ve personally seen and experienced emotional crisis up close. Far too close for MLC to be dismissed.

I do agree that it, like anything until ample data is available, is often incorrectly the diagnosis.

You know your situation better than I. And I follow your assessment of your XW’s life and her choices.

From my view, J experienced, without doubt, a severe crisis at mid life.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I cannot know, but expect that J has made similar choices. Accepting the life she has and willingly albeit reluctantly, paying the price for it. It may not be what she was seeking but it's what she has.

She is definitely paying a hefty price. Her choices were made or taken by her. How culpable she is, is up for debate. It is also rather moot. Driven to, or chose to. I think it’s both.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
…just be careful that you're not projecting how you hope she feels on to her.

A reasonable caution.

J hugged S21 for three minutes. Cried on his shoulder. Behaved in a subservient demeanour around OM’s (her’s ?) house. Is still crazy thin. Poor circulation. Is on her 27th or so job since BD. Admits to spying on us. Texts the kids during some rather frenzied periods. Then once “wins” disappears again. And on…

I think she ain’t feeling much joy or fulfilment in her life. Lacking the peace and contentment from loving family/kids, a moral and honourable life, and a strong stable self.

I think for J and your XW it’s not they’ve accepted their life and the cost of it; it’s they’ve resigned themselves to it.

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2926938 12/03/21 01:24 PM
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This is an interesting topic to me.

By just about every LBS account the WS is miserable and unhappy and the LBS feels sorry for them etc.

But yet so few recons? Is it too hard to undo when done that they resign to it?

Is this reality or the LBS's ego?


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
DnJ #2926961 12/04/21 01:56 AM
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My WS isn’t miserable. But wherever he goes, there he is. He didn’t solve any of his problems by leaving.

We did reconcile for several years after his first affair. He was definitely confused, depressed, and once he came out of the fog, life was good for several years. But his underlying narcissism and character issues remained and eventually lead to his final MLC. I wouldn’t have him back on a silver platter.

DnJ #2926963 12/04/21 02:13 AM
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Hello LH

I find there are two main types of acceptance.

Accepting in resigning one’s self to the events that have transpired. It has a defeat to it. Beaten by fate and submitted. Resigned to the past and the bleak awaiting future.

Accepting with forgiveness, understanding, compassion, and empathy. One stands for themselves. Has love of self and respect of self, which shines out. The future is a golden opportunity to look forward to.

Each views the world through their own lens. Their values, beliefs, and convictions shape their reality and their interaction with others and with the world. Is one accepting and has emotional understanding or resigned and somewhat troubled.

Yes, by most LBS accounts their (ex)spouse is miserable and unhappy. This is of course not all, there are folks right here that tell of how happy their ex is and successful they are doing. However, generally the self destructive path holds true for the (ex)spouse.

Given that immoral behaviours lead to most marital strife and breakups it is reasonable to see such outcomes. Such behaviour comes with a cost. One’s self respect, honour, loyalty, faithfulness, trustworthiness, etc, all corrodes to nothing in the acid of a deceitful affair or the alike.

As was just posted earlier, moral wounds run deep and injury one’s very soul.

For the left behind spouse of such a wayward and wanton spouse they usually react towards the righteous side of thing. Most grow better and stronger values and convictions. They find even more honour and loyalty than before. Most become better or the best versions of themselves.

It is completely reasonable for such a LBS to feel sad and sorry towards their once loving and loved spouse considering all that their spouse threw away in their pursuit for fantasy happiness.

Reconnection or reconciliation (not sure what you meant by recons) are difficult. And yes ego, like in everything, gets in the way. People’s need to be right does serve a valuable purpose, and yet at other times is quite the problem. The (ex)spouse not wanting to be wrong, and the LBS wanting to be right.

Removing the ego difficulties for the moment, there is even a bigger factor. Both LBS and (ex)spouse have changed. Generally (hopefully), LBS is better not bitter, and has become the best version of themselves. However, the WS is probably awakening from being resigned/defeated. Not really the best compatibility for two people reconnecting and seeing if reconciling is doable.

During such a fledgling period of a potential relationship the LBS has the lion’s share of the work to do. Bite one’s tongue. Remaining calm and shinning bright to encourage growth and positive forward movement of the WS. A path not for the faint of heart.

And it takes two. The destruction of a marriage or relationship only takes one. The rebuilding and reconciling takes two committed participants. The WS is going to need some time from inception of this fledging period to find their way. For they have not done all the inner work that the LBS has.

For a LBS to stand with such long odds takes a certain view. Standing really starts when one is healed enough to stand down. Until then, standing is our default position. One is far too hurt to not stand. We all start out fully ready to stand for our marriage and our spouse. As we heal we become detached, indifferent, uncoupled. All perfectly normal. Lots of LBS stand down. One cannot stand for someone else.

A few find another way to stand. You stand for you.

One can stand for far longer when it is for their beliefs and values and convictions. When it is for themselves. Finding, crafting, strengthening such a belief takes time and the focus to traverse limbo. To walk through that emotional desert until you discover yourself. To take the time and steps to influence such a belief. Lots of folks follow their feelings before then.

As you can see, reconciliation is rare for many reasons.

Is it reality? Absolutely! For reality is completely subjective. Crafted by whose reality it is. Even if that crafting is due to ego. It is still their reality. And one cannot see beyond that which they are not willingly to see.

- - - -

An interesting bit on subjective reality or truth. The reason I speak of multi-truths and viewpoint driven reality and validating.

Reality is based upon the one viewing it. We all subjectively interact and create our version of reality. And furthermore we are completely unable to know or understand “true” reality. We are forever seeing it subjectively. Not objectively.

We perceive reality through our senses. We hear, see, smell and such. This data all weaves a vision of things within our mind. That is our reality. It only exists in our mind.

You might scoff at such an idea. Just look around there are things that exist. Objectively. They exist regardless of our viewpoint. On the surface, that is true. However, we cannot understand that objectivity.

Consider a building. You are looking at it. You can see height, width, even depth if you’re not straight on. That’s only one viewpoint. I’m on the opposite side. Over here there are balconies that do not exist on your side. There is left, right, top, and bottom. Each a different view.

Inside, outside. Microscopic, telescopic. Fish eye lens. Filtered. Each different view subjectively imparting different information. And each providing a different reality.

The more views one is willing to accept as valid. The more truths one is willing to accept as real and valid, the close one gets to “true” reality. The closer one gets to God, if you’re consider morals, choice, free will, and such viewpoints; and not just a building.

Our (ex)spouse’s have different viewpoints than us. Valid viewpoints. True viewpoints. They see the left side of the building, we see the right. Both are correct! And both fall far short of coming close to the actual truth!

To demonstrate just how woefully we see true reality.

Play two notes together on a piano or keyboard. Middle C and G. It produces a fifth chord. We hear the fifth chord and each note. We can hear three sounds.

Now, consider light. Red and green. When combined we see yellow. We do not see red or green anymore. In actuality the red and green wave lengths of light interact and combine to produce a waveform that we perceive as yellow in colour. It is not a sinusoidal light wave with a frequency of yellow light. We only see it that way. It is two different frequencies superimposed on top of each other.

If one uses a spectrograph, a device that separates light into its varying wavelengths, we would see two - red and green. For there are two. A pure yellow light through a spectrograph has only one wave length.

Contrary to sound we cannot and do not sense the two individual light signals, we only see the single resultant one. This has evolutionary advantages and is why we see like we do, and why we hear like we do. Completely subjective interpretation of reality that we cannot detect ourselves. It is completely impossible without some form of device type aid.

People are so sure of their reality. So sure of their command of perception. So ego driven. Yet, it is not so. No where close to being so. We cannot understand “truth”. It is only through accepting that, and in seeking other viewpoints, that we uncover more and more, and get closer to the actual real.

I walk a middle of the road path for a reason. And my openminded-ness has more than once been mocked. It’s only when one let’s go the curtain of their reality, they start to actually see.

I find this topic rather interesting as well.

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
LH19 #2926988 12/04/21 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LH19
This is an interesting topic to me.

By just about every LBS account the WS is miserable and unhappy and the LBS feels sorry for them etc.

But yet so few recons? Is it too hard to undo when done that they resign to it?

Is this reality or the LBS's ego?
both, as well as many LBS move on and when the WS or MLCr comes back, the LBS is so far ahead of where they were that they aren't interested in a recon.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
H moved out 4/24/15
D Final 12/23/16

You have no idea what people are going thru in their personal lives. Be nice. It's that simple.
DnJ #2926992 12/04/21 10:21 PM
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Did someone mention my name?

Yes, I still read these boards that gave so much to me. Andrew has a fine memory. Only, that H didn’t keep in constant contact with me.

I didn’t hear from him in almost a year. It was on hearing my breast cancer diagnosis that eventually ‘woke’ him up. But still took a year after to return home.

DNJ, your post above describes exactly what reconciliation involves. It brought tears to my eyes.

It certainly isn’t for the feint hearted. And I still (over 3 years later) have to button my lip. I suspect I will have to until the end of my days!

You have such insight, you astound me.

Much love and best wishes to all my old friends here.

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DnJ #2927000 12/05/21 02:47 AM
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Hello All

A funny thing from two days ago.

I worked late and got back into hometown around 7:00 pm. I stopped by the post office to check the mail box. The parking at the office is angled parking, and there was a truck parked at the wrong angle - the one you’d have of you came in from the wrong way. The truck was also parked in the handicap spot. A pet peeve, considering all you need to do is just 10 feet further away, as there is only one spot.

Anyhow, I parked beside this truck and with their incorrect angle I had plenty of door swing room. Lol. I donned my mask and was somewhat mentally dissing whomever this inconsiderate boob was. And who comes out of the post office? OM! No mask, no smile, his usual blank expression. It struck me funny. So much so, I actually laughed right out loud. Of course it is him. So typical. Haha. Jeepers.

Another test passed it would seem. No pain. No big deal. Just, for the four time in these past years, meeting at the doorway.

kml, yep no matter where they go, there they are. Leaving doesn’t solve anything.

bttrfly, I agree. Most LBS do progress very well and are pretty far from where they were left.

Westo, I’m touched by your words. Thank you.

D


Now: Me54 XW50 S24 S23 S21 D19

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2927005 12/05/21 04:28 AM
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The scene with your S and XW was another astonishing chapter in the Russian novel by DnJostoevsky. I think you should start writing it. Just as it happened. See what it looks like as chapters in a novel or as little short stories. I felt so sad for XW. She is a tragic figure in this novel. She hurt you all so much, and I feel it especially for your D. But she hurt because she hurts and now she's a sad one eggshelling around the one she thought would save her, that wife-stealing bad-fathering handicap-space taking egg man.

Last edited by Gerda; 12/05/21 04:29 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
DnJ #2927006 12/05/21 04:33 AM
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Quote
that wife-stealing bad-fathering handicap-space taking egg man.

I am the egg man, I am the walrus, koo koo ka chu

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