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smilie,

So you & your L wanted 2100/mo, her attorney offered 600/mo, and the courts granted you 800/mo? I agree w/CWarrior that it sounds like either you or your L had unreasonable expectations and perhaps more realistic expectations and compromise would've served you better.

Regardless, that is in the past. The good news is you now know you'll be getting 800/mo going forward and you should be able to plan accordingly. How long will the spousal support last...1 year, 5 years, in perpetuity?

What are your next steps? Seems like finding a place to live and an income source. How is that going?

You keep referring to finding a place near "home". I don't remember seeing you had children together. Do you have friends and family in the area? If there are no kids, friends, or family holding you there you may consider branching out to a different area with more affordable rents which would 1) help financially and 2) help with detachment and you moving forward.


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Originally Posted by smilie
Hi Steve,

I guess from your perspective you're probably right how you see me and I am conscious how to answer your questions as I do not want to give the impression of making excuses - all I have been doing is following advice which hasn't worked out as I was led to believe, so here goes...

Originally Posted by SteveLW
Is there any reason you couldn't have done both? Had legal representation to move the legal stuff forward, AND look for another place to live?
Yes there was as far as my lawyer advised. This was exactly what I had previously done and have since been doing. The house that I found I was set up to move to until my lawyer told me that it would not be in my best interests and to wait to see what the courts come back with. The courts were delayed and so it took more than a few days. After 2 weeks the people renting the house pulled out and rented it to somebody else so I lost that. I then found another property closer to here and the lawyer said the same thing. The reason for this was that if I paid the full years rent out of "savings" (pension), then I could not claim this back as part of my claim and it would need to be reduced accordingly.

Similarly, the cost of the rent in the area I was looking at was the cheapest in the country and the lawyer informed me that if that rental amount was agreed as part of the claim, then if I were to move to a more expensive area then the courts wouldn't allow for the increase of rent.

Annoyingly, I found out from the barrister prior to the hearing, that the claim was short-term, while my lawyer gave the impressions that it was short-term, but then also would continue in part, longer term. This seems to have been wrong advice.

A claim for costs was also lodged, but I could not recover these and had to pay my own costs, even though my lawyer had stated that I would more than likely get some costs recovered - which is the only reason I agreed to go down this route.

Lesson learned. I have been constantly looking for places to live closer to home all the time, but there are very few places around the geographic are that I live as there are only small market towns and countryside, therefore less properties.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
And now that you are focused SOLELY on looking for a place to live, you stop all legal action?
The reason for this thinking is that with much reduced funds, I see my priority as finding a place to live and therefore do no want to keep spending money on high legal costs that will further diminish any remaining pension fund making it unable to move anywhere, if this makes sense? Plugging the leak if you like....

Maybe I am seeing this incorrectly?

Originally Posted by SteveLW
You have allowed yourself to be painted into the precarious place where your fate is up to your STBXW's doings or not doings. Can you look back and see how that is a recipe for disaster?
Yes I can see that. This entire thing has been planned. Each step of the way has been put into place and executed perfectly. Because she's a lawyer, my wife knows how to play the game. I did not expect her to be so evil as our relationship wasn't abusive or anything like that, so the way she has acted has both surprised me and deeply upset me. I could never treat anybody in this way, especially without due cause.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
One last observation: How does this: "The only good news is that I now know what town she is living in (or around) and my guess was correct.......
The area's around here are surrounded by countryside and there are only a few small market towns that are available to live near/in/around. Therefore because I know where she lives now, I know the main town that she will be in and therefore I know which to avoid moving near. It still makes it difficult and they are all about 30 minutes from each other anyway.

The rest of it was just making sense of the years passed. No, there was no hope of wanting her back. Yes I know she was conniving after I found what she had done prior to and after leaving, so it was eye-opening for me that it had more than likely been going on longer and why she wanted to move into the area and didn't want to move too far from it (we were planning to move to Spain a few years back, but when push came to shove she stopped showing interest).

Yes, this is a nightmare for me and I refer to it as such simply because that's how it feels. Quite simply, I do not know how to get out of this now and I have significantly less funds available and no income. This makes things significantly inflexible.

Sorry about making excuses, I was just sharing my experiences and truly can't see the way forward from where I am at the moment. In hindsight I should have gone with my gut, moved and not taken my lawyers advice, but one hopes that the advice they are given would pan out to some degree, which it would have had my wife not played the game the way she had. Apparently lying is ok and stating that you have spent the money that you took without permission, is also ok, as the courts cannot order money to be paid back that is not available. It's all crooked and wrong.

Originally Posted by SteveLW
So the question I would pose to myself if I were in your situation would be: "What can I do to improve my situation?"
It comes back to the same thing once again and where I was at the beginning of June - to find some place to live somewhere out of here, but now with very much depleted funds. The question for me to find an answer to is "How do I do that now....."

You alway have reasons for what you are doing. I just don't always agree with them! I think you got to a place of comfort in your life, and now that that comfort has been upended you are trying to find your level. You aren't trying to move forward, you are trying to keep things a status quo as possible.

The status quo is no longer possible for you. You either move forward, or you will rot on the vine. My question at the end was supposed to be thought-provoking. You went back to "how do I keep as close to the status quo a possible?" Again, the status quo is no longer an option for you. Stop trying to keep it. "How do you move your life forward?" is the question!


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Hey smilie! Now that the court has deemed support payments of £800/month as a fair and ordered amount you can count on, and you're free to move or start your own business, how are things going?

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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hey smilie! Now that the court has deemed support payments of £800/month as a fair and ordered amount you can count on, and you're free to move or start your own business, how are things going?
Hey there! Thanks for checking in. Life has been such a struggle and I have been getting nothing but abuse from all angles.

As far as the business stuff goes, I can't do anything with that at the moment due to court stuff as the stbxw playing evil games. Just the hint of anything like that and it will end my chances of hoping to get any further maintenance. I can't even see if things will work out as it will be used as an excuse that I can work. I never have experienced anything like this and whatever anybody else says, it's straight out of the covert narcissists toolbox. She is beyond evil at this stage.

Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill and 2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.

I light of this, she has just submitted a 296-page response to 20 questions that my lawyer asked as part of the financial disclosure - she has told me she has never known anything like it.

Despite what some of the people here were insinuating, since July I have been looking fulltime for somewhere to live, only sleeping an hour each night, going for a tea at a local church 3 times a week for an hour or two. I wasn't eating properly (still not). All the other time I was answering the relentless phone calls from the so-called health services that were intent on giving me grief just for asking for help, and looking for somewhere to live. I was also trying to get social housing and obtain counselling, but to get housing I had to be evicted and they pulled counselling because I was too anxious - something I have never heard in my life and something that the counsellor I now have has never heard in her life. My experience with the health services was disgusting and I have since found that they are the lowest ranked health/mental health service in the country and are under special measures. They were very abusive towards me and made my entire situation so much worse. Anyway, it took me until November to find a new place to live in a different part of the country and it is nice to be away from where she is. It is certainly helping me detach finally from her. I had neighbours spying on me on her behalf, feeding back information to her and pretending to care (flying monkeys?). The entire thing had left me so paranoid.

I am now at the stage where I can try to rebuild my life and as SteveLW had previously said, I am hardly trying to preserve the Status Quo - why would I? I was in a hell of a place with my position being made constantly worse on a daily basis and I was living it. I have moved now and have my own space, but still worried so much about money.

My lawyer was also a cause for concern and I sacked her. My new one is much better and isn't intent on making as much money as possible from a person with a neurological condition - which I recently had re-diagnosed. I have spent since 2017 with the incorrect diagnosis.

Anyway, that's a quick update. I felt that as time went on nobody was really understanding what was happening and I can quite understand it. This entire thing is an absolute nightmare and one that I cannot believe I am living. It is pure hell. She is pure evil, from the day she left she was intent on destroying me for some unknown reason. But it fits with everything that I have learned about covert narcissistic behaviour since and I can see now how manipulated I was during the relationship, especially since I have been ill.

I was nothing more than a target for her to take everything from emotionally and financially - once she took all that years before she left, she carries on trying to destroy me for no reason whatsoever - that is not how people {should} treat each other. Luckily, I am now not the only one that can see it. Others are noticing and my lawyer can clearly see the unreasonable behaviour at every turn. It's truly disgusting!

I hope you have all had a good Christmas...

Last edited by smilie; 12/27/21 09:46 PM.

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smilie,

Welcome back. It's been a few months. Sorry to hear life has been such a struggle. This situation everyone around here has been in is incredibly difficult. I certainly feel for you. However, rest assured, if you focus on yourself and improving your life you will get through it and it will be way in your rear view mirror at some point in the future.

Originally Posted by smilie
As far as the business stuff goes, I can't do anything with that at the moment due to court stuff as the stbxw playing evil games. Just the hint of anything like that and it will end my chances of hoping to get any further maintenance.
I thought spousal maintenance was already ordered for a certain amount and timeframe? Would you getting a job or starting a business change that? I would think you being out of work for 7 years during the marriage would be a big factor, despite your employment going forward. However, even if it would reduce or stop maintenance might it be better to pursue your own income regardless? It might be empowering and you can't live off your Ex forever.

Originally Posted by smilie
Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill
Lots of stories are told in divorce situations, especially by the WAS/WS. Maybe it's her perception, maybe it's a lie...unfortunately either way you can't change it. You can only know and tell your own truth.

Originally Posted by smilie
2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.
What are her grounds for the demand? Thought I remember you saying she cleared out the accounts on you which, if that's the case, seems like you'd be entitled to some of what she took.

Originally Posted by smilie
Anyway, it took me until November to find a new place to live in a different part of the country and it is nice to be away from where she is. It is certainly helping me detach finally from her.
I think it's good you moved away. Like you said it'll help with detachment not running into her or familiar places. You can make a fresh start.

Originally Posted by smilie
stbxw playing evil games
Originally Posted by smilie
All the other time I was answering the relentless phone calls from the so-called health services that were intent on giving me grief just for asking for help, and looking for somewhere to live...My experience with the health services was disgusting...They were very abusive towards me and made my entire situation so much worse
Originally Posted by smilie
I had neighbours spying on me on her behalf, feeding back information to her and pretending to care (flying monkeys?). The entire thing had left me so paranoid.
Originally Posted by smilie
My lawyer was also a cause for concern and I sacked her.
smilie - I'll be honest. I don't know you personally or your situation more than what you shared here, so maybe I'm off-base, but I see a lot of being the victim and blame of other people in your posts but not a lot of self-reflection. You blame your stbxw for being evil. You blame your country's health services for not giving you housing and mental care you feel entitled to. You blame your neighbors for spying on you. You blame your first lawyer for not being good.

Maybe all of that is warranted. However, even if it is there's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is focus on yourself. Maybe some self-reflection and self-improvement would be time better spent? You don't have to answer or explain here, just think on it. You'll see "don't be a victim" mentioned frequently on this board. Even if we were all a victim in some way, it doesn't help to dwell on it going forward. Better to get mentally strong and flip the mindset and empower your life going forward.

Don't mean to seem harsh. Just trying to help. Hope you had a good Christmas as well.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
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S,

Man sorry to hear about your struggles but I tend to agree with BL. I don’t know if your a sports fan but there is a story I remember hearing that fits yours. The Boston Celtics are a historic franchise and have won like 25 championships. About 20 years ago they had a very bad team and we’re struggling mightily. The coach at the time Rick Petino was frustrated with the team and basically told them that the legends of the past (Larry Bird, Kevin McHale etc) were not going to walk through the door to help them out. They were on their own to get themselves out of the terrible situation.

Try to get a little better each day.

Man the “in sickness and in health” portion of the vows completely goes against our lizard brains. In the caveman days if the man was sick the woman and children were sure to perish so the woman would find a new man to ensure their survival. Thousands of years later and nothing has changed.

Chin up and chest out!

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Hi BL, thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by BL42
It's been a few months. Sorry to hear life has been such a struggle. This situation everyone around here has been in is incredibly difficult. I certainly feel for you. However, rest assured, if you focus on yourself and improving your life you will get through it and it will be way in your rear view mirror at some point in the future.
It has been a struggle and certainly the worst of my life - I have never had literally everything taken from me and left with absolutely nothing. Not having an income is the worst thing ever.

Originally Posted by BL42
I thought spousal maintenance was already ordered for a certain amount and timeframe? Would you getting a job or starting a business change that?
It's an 'interim' order while finances are being sorted. When these are sorted a new order may be made. I don't know what type of work I would be able to do or if plans would suit and I wouldn't know unless I try. As soon as I try, then my wife's lawyer/barrister will push the fact that "see, you can work", even if I am unable to do what I try. I have had this conversation with my lawyer. In the short-term it makes sense to get the maintenance agreed & stable, as she is doing everything possible to spend every penny she earns every month so that she can "prove" that she has nothing left.

Originally Posted by BL42
I would think you being out of work for 7 years during the marriage would be a big factor, despite your employment going forward. However, even if it would reduce or stop maintenance might it be better to pursue your own income regardless?
Yes, it would be better to do this and this is what I have been trying to get my head round doing exactly that for over 7 years. I would never expect anybody to understand my neurological condition, but it is so awful being dizzy all the time, let alone the other symptoms. Shortly before I moved I was re-diagnosed with PPPD - it would seem I have been given the wrong diagnosis back in 2017 - so there's that.

Originally Posted by BL42
It might be empowering and you can't live off your Ex forever.
I don't want to live of her at all!

Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by smilie
Her game is two-fold; 1) Smear campaign against me continually, trying to make out what a loser I am, how I never wanted anything to do with money and how I am pretending to be ill
Lots of stories are told in divorce situations, especially by the WAS/WS. Maybe it's her perception, maybe it's a lie...unfortunately either way you can't change it. You can only know and tell your own truth.
It's not her perception. It is all total fabrication to try to make it seem like I'm making it up that she took the money and trying to make out that I didn't know what was going on and wasn't interested anyway. It got me to a point where I thought I was going mad!


Originally Posted by BL42
Originally Posted by smilie
2) Demand thousands from me that I don't have £17k to be exact.
What are her grounds for the demand? Thought I remember you saying she cleared out the accounts on you which, if that's the case, seems like you'd be entitled to some of what she took.
No grounds. This is her offer of full settlement. I give her 17k, she gives me 9k in maintenance. If that makes sense to anybody..... I have no income, she has a high salary.


Originally Posted by BL42
I think it's good you moved away. Like you said it'll help with detachment not running into her or familiar places. You can make a fresh start.
The best thing is going out for a walk, away from the places, her and neighbours who would ask me questions and report back to her - so I have just found out after moving.

Originally Posted by BL42
smilie - I'll be honest. I don't know you personally or your situation more than what you shared here, so maybe I'm off-base, but I see a lot of being the victim and blame of other people in your posts but not a lot of self-reflection. You blame your stbxw for being evil. You blame your country's health services for not giving you housing and mental care you feel entitled to. You blame your neighbors for spying on you. You blame your first lawyer for not being good.
And this is what frustrates me and stopped me posting on forums. I don't know how to explain to you or anybody else, my experience. I type it and it is so massively unbelieveable that people think I'm making it up - this thing has been terrifying! I have one friend who has seen it first-hand including content of legal documents and he can't believe his eyes.

I am desperately trying to find a way back from all this and it's desperately hard. I am not "blaming" but giving facts. I have not blamed anybody for not giving me anything, the housing services wanted me to ruin my credit score, get an eviction notice and become homeless before they would help - in other words ruin my life completely. No blame, just fact.

As far as the stbxw is concerned, I have never experienced anybody being as evil as her. I thought the world of her and hate to have these thoughts and feeling about her, but I cannot explain what she is doing/has done any other way.

Likewise with the neighbours (2 of them), no blame, just fact.

This entire thing for me has been unbelieveable and like I have been in some living nightmare.

I have never expected or felt entitled to any mental care and didn't want any (funny enough I didn't receive any either after months). All I requested was counselling and that turned into the biggest nightmare ever. A guy at a charity who I have been speaking with through the back end of this, agrees that I have been treated appallingly. Even the lady who works for the mental health team that I spoke to after lodging a complaint, also agreed that I had been treated exceptionally bad and that the things that had happened shouldn't have.

This has been my exact experience.


Originally Posted by BL42
Maybe all of that is warranted.
It's just my exact experience.


Originally Posted by BL42
However, even if it is there's nothing you can do about it. All you can do is focus on yourself. Maybe some self-reflection and self-improvement would be time better spent?
This is what I have been doing, especially since moving. Everything is so raw still, especially as my wife is still playing these stupid games by submitting 296-page responses to 20 questions - even my lawyer can't believe that and hasn't seen anything like that in her life - so that's not me either.


Originally Posted by BL42
You'll see "don't be a victim" mentioned frequently on this board. Even if we were all a victim in some way, it doesn't help to dwell on it going forward.
I never wanted to be a victim of anything. I had everything taken from me without my knowledge and no way to live and I have a reaction to that - even now when I look back and look at what's happening, it is so unbelievable!

I have spent months sorting out my living needs and navigating the rubbish I have been dealt - how is that being a victim. I wasn't sitting around waiting for others, I was pushing through both my emotional trauma and neurological symptoms and trying to sort things out and I have so far.

Originally Posted by BL42
Better to get mentally strong and flip the mindset and empower your life going forward.
I agree and it's the doing that which is the hard part of where to start. I started of learning about narcissistic traits and it seems my stbxw has the handbook.

I need to work on not letting my mind get the better of me - this whole thing has shot my nerves and brain to bits it feels. How the hell do I start fixing that?

I'm also having regular couselling - privately, not on the state.

Money goes down quick and I don't have an income and I don't know how to handle that. Because of this I don't feel settled, never have and therefore I can't even think properly. It's only 3 weeks since I have moved that I have stopped shaking - that's 6 months of continual shaking, although I can still feel the anxiety is still quite high.

I've made a few connections round here and go to the coffee shop to journal a couple of times a week. A friend bought me a gift card for the drinks :-)

Originally Posted by BL42
Don't mean to seem harsh. Just trying to help. Hope you had a good Christmas as well.
I know, it's just difficult for me to explain by typing - always has been, as the entire thing is so massive and unexplainable. People *always* get me wrong when I say what has happened and I don't know how to to put things into words or move on from that, as then people have made their minds up to the type of person that I am, which seems unfair. I am a worrier though.

I hope you've had a good break also.


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LH19 Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'm not waiting for anybody to help me out - never have been. All I have done is what people suggested I do and things spiraled out of control.

I get what you mean about the vows bit. The annoying thing is that I stood by her for 7 years prior to being married (only together 2 years), when she became seriously ill.

I just need to figure out the next steps forward now that I have relocated. Big Challenge.

Chin/Chest thing - doing it! As best I can anyway :-)


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Divorce Filed (16 July '21)
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smilie, one if the things I love about this forum is that people call it like they see it. Some posters embrace that, drop denial, and let this board help them see things more clearly. What I see with you is defensiveness and seeing the posters here as "just more of the same abusers".

Smile, I feel bad for you, I really do. Your situation seems especially complex and thorny, and as others have said, outside of the usual help given here. None of us are qualified to deal with neurological diseases. I really hope your situation improves and you find the peace you seek.


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smilie,
Originally Posted by smilie
And this is what frustrates me and stopped me posting on forums. I don't know how to explain to you or anybody else, my experience. I type it and it is so massively unbelieveable that people think I'm making it up - this thing has been terrifying! I have one friend who has seen it first-hand including content of legal documents and he can't believe his eyes.
Certainly don't want to push you away from this board. It's a great place for folks in our situation with a lot of good people taking their own time to help others. I'm not saying you're making it up, but am observing even in your response just now you're focusing a lot on external factors (stbxw, Health Services, 1st lawyer, neighbors...etc.) whereas the best way to improve your situation is to look inward and work on yourself.

Originally Posted by smilie
I need to work on not letting my mind get the better of me
Yes! Absolutely.

Originally Posted by smilie
I'm also having regular couselling
That's great. Keep it up!

Originally Posted by smilie
It's only 3 weeks since I have moved that I have stopped shaking - that's 6 months of continual shaking, although I can still feel the anxiety is still quite high.
Did you talk to a doctor about anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medication? I'm not a big pill/drug guy, but ADs and sleeping pills can help folks temporarily through a difficult time.

Originally Posted by smilie
I've made a few connections round here and go to the coffee shop to journal a couple of times a week. A friend bought me a gift card for the drinks :-)
That's wonderful :-)

Keep moving forward smilie. It WILL get better.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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