Please try to remember, it doesn’t matter why she’s turned into this. It doesn’t matter if she’s always been this way. It doesn’t matter if she’s a narcissist or the kindest person in the world. Because it doesn’t change your situation. Only you can change your situation and you are and can be responsible for your happiness.
You are right in what you say. I just can't let go of trying to understand.
I do have things to do, but I can't settle and do hobbies when I need to pack up the house and find a place to move to. I'm worried about money also, as there's a lot I have to sort out.
My main focus is to find a place to live and I have also been thinking about what I may do to bring in an income. That will be my hobby. I will have digital products to make, coursework to create and websites to design I would think. I am committed to building something within the next year that can start bringing in an income someway.
I have a couple of mates but they are not local to me. I feel isolated and alone here. It's a very small town with nothing going on in it and nobody about.. There are no groups or clubs, it's murder being here being a tiny rural town. The people are sot of friendly enough but keep themselves to themselves. On the whole nobody will do anything for anybody, so it's hard to ask for help as nobody is interested. I tapped on my neighbour's door and had a chat about the internet yesterday - he just said "Oh dear". The good thing about it is, is that it's out of the way, but the facilities are rubbish. We only moved here to be near my wife's work and so she could walk to work or go on the train - 10 mins walk away.
To be completely honest, I am finding this really tough doing this all on my own. I have asked 4 people for help now, 2 friends, 1 neighbour and a guy and his wife that are in a group that meets on a Sunday for a chat - this was set up in lock-down as people felt isolated. I have had nobody offer their help, so it's still just me on my own so sort out so much stuff all at the same time - divorce, legal battle for maintenance & online account info, finding a house to live in in a different area, sorting out stuff to pack or sell or leave behind - there is her stuff there also.
I'm worried and I think that's natural and it doesn't help that my confidence has been ripped to shreds and my self-esteem along with it.
But you're right, none of it changes my situation and it's that I need to focus on and sort out somehow.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
I read in a book once that a dumpee will try to diagnose the dumper with MLC, NDP etc so they can convince themselves that they can still love them because they are not in their right mind. If they were they would certainly never do this to the dumpee.
I have gotten flack in the past for calling WS $hitty people and have since then rethought it and changed it to selfish people.
Interesting concept. I don't feel that this is what I'm doing. I don't need to convince myself that I can still love her and I'm not sure what gain I would get from doing that. I also agree that based on my wife she seems to be an extremely selfish person. It really is like she is under some form of wicked spell.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
I know a lot of you don't believe me when I say that I think that my wife is a covert narcissist. But her behaviour is exactly what is described here in the video by Kim Saeed:
- Lack of Empathy - Willing to see you suffer and destroy you without flinching - Multiple Targets - Me, OM, Partner woman at her work - Grooming OM prior to leaving me. etc.
This entire video is exactly my experience and yes it has WW parts of it, but she's taken all the savings, pushing blame on to me suggesting that I'm not "willing" to work, has systematically depleted our savings and/or transferred them elsewhere, is doing everything in her power not to supply spousal maintenance, has been cold, calculated and systematic in her execution. Even spending money on the garden and letting me do all that work growing and planting veg knowing that she was going and that it would all be a waste of time and money. I knew she didn't seem very interested in it, now I know why!
There is also another video explaining Covert Narcissism (I've started the link where the signs start):
1. Something empty inside them. I've felt this. The feeling of lack of closeness for one. I would grab her and give her a squidge, but she never used to do anything like that with me. Never pinched my bum or showed any impulsive form of affection. Also no emotion behind their word, especially in a heart-to-heart or argument. She kept straight and showed not one bit of emotion at all, like one would expect. She very rarely cried and if she did. it wasn't for long - she didn't even cry the day her mum died. Feel like she was going through the motions, being impersonal - this is how sex felt, like I was just there to supply the part that she required. No feelings of closeness, kisses, hugs, etc. She used to go 'inside herself'. I always thought that was strange since day 1 and just got used to it I suppose.
2. Aloof. As above, no displays of affection towards me - ever, unless I instigated. Same bed, same sofa, but she never came for a cuddle watching TV, always kept her personal space. If I approached for a cuddle she would, but then that was it - unless she wanted sex.
3. Feeling belittled. I felt that I was less than her as I couldn't work. I wanted to cook the meals each day for when she came home from work, but she said no as it would be too early. She then used to do it and wouldn't let me help. Every time! Then she can say to others that I don't help cook. I felt like I didn't know what I was doing and that she knew best and I trusted that and then she capitaliazes on that. When we used to go to her work do's, I used to feel like I was standing in her shadow, even though I could start and hold conversation with everybody else, I felt that I was there to prop her up and that she viewed me as lower than her as I didn't work (rather than her equal) - and all of her work colleagues probably knew it, so they could think of me as a lazy git.
4. Emotional Starvation. Feeling alone in the relationship, like she is doing her thing and I'm doing mine. She never wanted to work on things together even though she said she did. Feeling changed as soon as we got married - as soon as. No sex for 3 days after wedding, not even on wedding night. Off on honeymoon next day, so "need to get sleep". It was only me that suggested going anywhere, only me that gave her a hug (unless in bed and she wanted sex), only me that suggested going out for a drink or a meal. She gladly accepted, but the suggestions were always mine.
5. Passive-Aggressiveness. <- This. Didn't talk much though, although very short on action - used to say she wanted to start business together, but didn't act and disregarded the idea until I raised it again. She never did. Didn't argue with me. Always agreed with my ideas & suggestions - even my mates wife said this the year we got married, that she always agreed with what I said, wanted to do, or ideas.
6. Repelled by Sexual Advances. Never really saw this, but she used to ensure that she acted in such a way as to "send the message" that she wasn't interested in sex - always the Kindle! When she didn't grab the Kindle and wanted a hug, that was 'code' for she wanted sex. Every time. She never wanted to talk about our sex life.
Everything this lady says is/was my wife ... everything. The love-bombing stage was for the first few years and died down when we started to arrange the wedding.
Is it that WW or MLC behaviour is exactly the same as narcissism, or is she actually a covert narcissist?
So am I getting it wrong? Yes I'm still trying to work stuff out, but I am interested what others see here, as I think that this is the case. Not that it matters anymore, but the behaviours described in both of these videos almost fit my wife like a glove.
Focus. Off. Her.
Focus. On. You.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Interesting concept. I don't feel that this is what I'm doing. I don't need to convince myself that I can still love her and I'm not sure what gain I would get from doing that. I also agree that based on my wife she seems to be an extremely selfish person. It really is like she is under some form of wicked spell.
Try to read this response completely objectively. As if someone else wrote it. Would you say the poster was focusing on themselves? Or on their WAS?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Getting geeky, for your definition of covert narcissism, you linked to diagnostic criteria from "Kim Saeedi". Her website gave no info on her credentials to propose those as diagnostic criteria. Google says she has a BS in Education. Dr Craig Malkin has a doctorate in clinical psychology, is a licensed therapist, and teaches psychology at Harvard Medical. He says a covert narcissist is a subtype of a narcissist and as such, the first step is to see if someone meets all the criteria for being a narcissist (DSM V). If that's too dry/dense to read and understand, there's "Dimensional Conceptualization and Diagnosis of NPD".
Your next steps are the same whether or not she's a narcissist or simply going through a selfish phase after years of resentment. Diagnosis would only matter if you both were interested in reconciliation.
Try to read this response completely objectively. As if someone else wrote it. Would you say the poster was focusing on themselves? Or on their WAS?
Yeah, point(s) taken. Hard though, as that's where my brain wants to go.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
Thanks for that and your comments makes sense, of course.
I think I've got it now - finally - sort me.. it's so difficult also as the past 19 years I've been putting her first. I shall work on redirecting my thoughts.
Thanks for the kick op the jacksie!
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
This is usually a sign you aren't keeping busy. GAL is crucial, otherwise you'll sit and stew in the juices of your sitch.
No, I'm keeping busy looking for a place to live. It's all I seem to do and then go out for an hour to get some fresh air! I haven't got time for anything else.
M(55), W(45) BD1: Apr-2011, BD2: 23-May-21, NC (15 June '21) Divorce Filed (16 July '21) --- When you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, you need to trust it's there.
This isn't emotionally violent. This is her doing what in her best interest without any consideration for you. Emotionally violent would have involved years of emotional manipulation that would've allowed you to just simply hand the money over to her vs her trying to walk away with it. Or spending night and day telling you what a worthless, stupid cow you are. Which isn't happening. My stbxw is doing everything in her power to hurt me and I don't understand. My stbxw is doing so many things out of character and I don't understand. <- that's what's happening. Stop trying to understand. None of us "understand" fully what happened. Most of us who get some clarity had to remove ourselves from the situation and detach before we could see the picture in it's whole context. You can keep grasping at straws or you can take a few deep breaths and resign to the fact that you will know why this is happening in due time, but right now is not that time.
You are hurt, I completely understand that. We've all been there, but I hate to break it to you, contrary to your belief currently what you dealing with is neither unique or case specific. I've recommended this to other newbies who are just emotionally dumping and what feels very much like grasping at anything to keep them afloat. Go read other people's threads. Dig through the archives. In stead of researching and researching on what could possibly be wrong stbxw start reading what other's have gone through. The realizations they had to make. The control they had to let go of. Go read and read and read and see how not alone you are. Go see how common this is. Go see how in all honestly your stbxw is not the worst we've seen by far.
It's incredibly common in the process to go from blaming everything on yourself to blaming everything on her. We've all gone through it. But like I've told you before the likelihood that she's actually the narcissist or the sociopath that you'd like her to be is beyond slim. She like all humans are capable of narcissistic behavior. Selfish acts. Behaving irrationally. Does that make her a narcissist? No. It makes her human. You can continue to demonize her. You could continue down the rabbit hole of where you went wrong and all the crappy behavior you missed, but that's only a part of the picture and you know that. The truth lies somewhere in the middle of your perception and hers. This is an exercise in futility. You are only hurting yourself spiraling like this.
I think you're time could be better spend researching how to deal with bouts of anxiety and stress. There are even articles out there that are geared for people going through separation and divorce. If you can't focus on spiritual, mental and emotional growth right now how about managing your emotions and mental health? Let's start at the base. Your time is better spent on self care than it is in trying to diagnose your stbxw. That will always be the case.
As far the centering goes, this is all very raw. You are technically the victim here, you were abandoned and rather unceremoniously. You're allowed to have a pity party, and you're allowed to invite whomever you'd like. This is a sh!t situation, you're welcome to wallow. We all did. The issue is everyone is worried that it isn't so much a party with time limits and parameters as much as it's going to become a state of being for you. That it's been a state of being for you. That you don't see any other possible perspectives here.
Get some distance from this. Don't let it consume you. If you have to drown yourself in books or music or soapy television or gaming. What ever works for you. Work on detachment. Work on focusing on you. Take a hot shower. Get something in your stomach and try to get some sleep tonight. It really does feel like the world is collapsing around you, I know, we all know, but I can assure it's not. You will come out of this better than you were before it even started. That's the point of all this.
