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Previous thread: Fierce compassion, equanimity, integrity #2

Fierce Gerda! You are truly a role model. I love the thought of that L crying. KML, thanks for sharing this site! I feel like you could be a financial planner yourself. D, I would love to share some shortcake with you. Eagle, thank you so much for the encouragement. I am on my phone and need to go back and properly re-read your posts. I can’t quote now since I’m starting a new thread. I will always be grateful to bttrfly for helping give me this heading. It remains my north star. Sage, I’m thinking about you and wondering how you are. Kindly, you too. (May, your thread is over 100, but I hope you are well think of you often. You too, WF.)

Gerda, the financial planner I referred to before actually happens to be a CDFA. He is the one who I spoke with briefly last year, who said don’t give up the pension. He seemed to pick up on the fact that I was feeling especially unworthy and tired and ready to be done with all this and wanted to shore me up. I’ve reached out to him for some help figuring out numbers (I’ve never talked specifics with him before), and he asked two questions I’m not sure how to answer:

“Did he provide you with what the monthly community property interest would be for the amount you would be entitled to, at retirement? Secondly, did he provide you with the present day value of the contract? In other words, what that future value would be in present day dollars.“

Do you know if there’s a way I can find this out on my own? I can talk with the CDFA about this when we set a meeting, but maybe all of you smart people can guide me beforehand.


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I’m not sure what he means by the first - I’m guessing that’s planner-speak for the $675 a month figure? Which btw is in today’s dollars.

The present day value is that figure that I tried to ballpark estimate - something like the $66,000. However the formulas used to calculate that by the pension plans are often not as favorable to you - they might use a lower inflation assumption, definitely a lower life expectancy etc. You could try speaking to HR first to see if they can give you that information to you without having to go through ex.

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Hi Cardinal!

Just a quick note to check in and see how you are doing! Any progress on the pension? If you haven't tried to speak directly to the HR office of your H's company, you should. Were you married when he first started working there? If he put you down as his spouse, you should be listed as a beneficiary. I am by no means an expert, but at my last job we had a pension plan that we were working on closing down, and the HR folks had a spreadsheet that included the present-day value of each pension. If you don't want to call, you could also probably write a letter and request the information.

Another thing you could do is look through paperwork you have at the house-- I *think* all pensions are required to send an annual notice to vested participants that says what your expected monthly benefit would be if you retire at age (whatever). I bet if you found the most recent copy of that letter, you could probably back out what the present value is. (sorry if I'm missing some of the story!)

Any baking lately?

xx M


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9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Hello again, lovely people! No progress on the pension or in general. It has been about a month since H wanted to talk about an agreement and said he would give me pension info and that he was planning on amending the filing. The talkative, super friendly H who’s been around for the past six months is back to the one who wears headphones much of the time and says little.

May, thank you for stopping by! I so hope things are going well at your new job and with your family. I need to see if you’ve updated.

The financial advisor said we really just need to do a qdro—why is H dragging his heels, there’s no question that I will get my portion of the pension, etc. With no assets, he does not think it’s possible for H to offer a payout. I emailed our retirement department to see if I could get a copy of H’s statement last week but haven’t heard anything back. Statements are online, so no chance of looking through old mail.

My IC recommends now I just reach out to my L and have her contact H’s L and try to get things moving. She too sees the pattern of H saying he’ll do something or give me something snd then doing nothing. For two years. I’m filled with this feeling of dread now and then that nothing will ever move forward, because he’s not able to act—for the last two years his room has been a disaster, trash bags he never takes out, etc. To me it’s another outward symbol of his avoidance and MLC. If he can’t bring himself to take out his trash, how will he ever finish a D? As you know, there are lots more fun things to take up an MLCer’s time.

I could try to approach him one more time. “H, my L is asking for an update. What should I tell her?” Or, “Where are you at with amending the (annulment) filing to a D so we can get this settled?”

Or I could just contact my L and see if she wants to talk to his L or try to send over an offer.

Any thoughts on either path?

I spend too much time thinking about whether H will get angry again and drag this out more somehow, make a simple situation more difficult. But then I remember he is already doing just that. Should I fear what is already happening?

Having returned from a visit to see family, having for the first time in 1 1/2 years had real physical distance from H and this place, surrounded by people who love me, i feel much the same way Sage does. I accept the D. I accept that H is out of reach now and for the indefinite future. I like the life I am making on my own. I’m excited to see how much lighter my days could be without his shadow in the house.


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Oh, and one other complicating factor is that there is a chance I’ll be getting a promotion in the next 3-6 months, which will give me less to negotiate with regarding support. I still won’t make as much as him, but it is a tiny chip I have to bargain with at the moment. The odds that any agreement with H would happen in that time frame seem about nil! I suppose I need to remember that I cannot control a lot of these variables.


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put it in the hands of your lawyer and focus on living your best life. delegate delegate delegate for sanity's sake. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Before I change my mind, a quick post!

I think about all of you, my friends, here often. It's because of you I've been able to get through the last two and a half years and am still standing, if exhausted. I thought I would update when something of interest happened, but I couldn't summon the energy to log in. I wondered how you were all doing. I imagined each of you healthy, happy, situations resolved, finally (especially you, Gerda!). I sent loving kindness in your direction. And then today, I thought I should log in and say Happy Thanksgiving, and tell you again how thankful I am for your support.

Two updates for me: A month ago, my H finally had his L change from an annulment to a D. That was progress. Of course, his L messed up the two-page document a couple of times, and it took much longer than it should have! My L is now convinced H's L doesn't know much about family law, and that we will have to serve discovery in order to get H to just complete his disclosures so we can finish this D. He's on his own timeline, though, as always, and I don't feel at the moment compelled to spend my dwindling L money to escalate things in that way, especially as there's not much left to negotiate: H recently told me he will be moving out by the first of the year. The things I spent so much time here worrying about--losing the pets, the house--seem to be off the list of worries. It does seem that this timeline of H's, though at times agonizing for me, has slowly allowed his anger to dissipate, though the blame and unwillingness to do any self-examination remains.

He hasn't accused me of anything since I last posted. We say hi and good morning, and that's usually it. Every once in a while he says or does something that reminds me of who we used to be together, and I am sad. Same with his moving out--I've longed for it and still I know there's going to be more grief, even as I am ready for this. Another stage of letting go, moving on. Now and then I'm still surprised that someone you've spent so much of your life with can be gone from your life just like that. Of course, he's been gone, if still present, for two and a half years, but the sounds he makes about the house are still familiar, sometimes a strange comfort.

My promotion finally became official. It looks like the new year might be a new start in many ways.

D, Gerda, may, WF, bttrfly, kml, Sage, job, Eagle, PLC--everyone here!--Happy Thanksgiving! I will always be grateful for you and will always wish the best for you.


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Happy Thanksgiving cardinal.

Congratulations on the promotion. Yes, let’s hope the new year is one of new and wonderful beginnings.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Congrats on the promotion! I never understood the lyric to that song “God bless the child that’s got his own” until I was getting divorced. Having the wherewithal to take care of ourselves is powerful.

It’s crazy how long it takes some MLCers to go through with the divorce they wanted. I liken it to Erica Jong’s “zipless f—k”, where clothes simply fall off with no awkward fumbling with buttons and zippers, and there are no consequences. Some MLCers seem to expect a “zipless divorce”, where there’s no tedious paperwork or lawyer fees and they don’t have to give up a thing while they ride off into their new fantasy life.

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Congratulations on the promotion! The new year looks so very promising for you! I am so glad that things are finally starting to turn around for you and your little daughter.

Don't be a stranger! You know you are always welcome to come back and post updates...we are all family in one way or another. Please take care of yourself and know that we all love you.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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