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Eagle3 Offline OP
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DnJ,

It's unbelievable but these are exactly the words I needed to hear today. Especially after what happened yesterday.

I don't have much time to write now but there were some interesting developments with H.

Your message just gives me that extra push, I know I'm on the right path.

I would like to give you a big virtual hug for everything you have already done for me. It's unbelievable how people who don't know each other can mean so much. That's what this forum is all about after all.

Coming back soon!


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Jan 2018
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Good Morning Eagle

You are most welcome, for I am happy to reach out.

I am glad my words had meaning to you. And I also am amazed at the display of kind compassion people on this forum; it’s inspiring to witness.

Have a wonderful day.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Friday I went to pick up H from the airport.
I immediately got a sincere hug (unlike the last times), it felt like he wouldn't let go.

In the car he almost immediately began to cry heavily, saying with great difficulty how grateful he was for the email I had sent him and how much it meant to him.

Then he continued. Lots of incoherent sentences but could understand how great his guilt was, how it was possible he could lose himself so much, that the person he used to be and the values ​​he had are completely lost, he pretty much has become the person he used to hate.
That the psychiatrist said he is a person with narcissistic tendencies, that he knows this about himself but is having a very hard time with it.

Also about his life in the country where he now lives. Very superficial friends, nothing or no one is real.

I just listened and validated.

Again he said he would like to return to his children and build a relationship with them again, I told him that he and only he can make that decision.

It is difficult with the twins and he feels this very strongly. The 2 youngest have built a wall around them and they won't let him in for the time being. Things are going a little better with the eldest son.

He looks very tired and old, very thin too. He exercised a lot, but this has decreased enormously.
Sleeping more during the day than awake.

In the evening we went out for dinner with the family. He'd been drinking, but he's been drinking less than the last few times he was here. He also says himself he tries to drink less. I could see that, but not well enough not to call it a problem.

Once home I went upstairs. He sleeps in the guest room.
When I was in my bed, he came in to sleep next to me.
I said nothing and allowed it.
One thing led to another and we made love in an incredible way. It felt so comfortable, we always had a really good connection and a strong and active sex life, I could not resist it. (Did use the necessary protection though)
He held me all night in his arms, saying several times he loves me, that he misses me and that I will always be the woman for him.
This is the first time in 2 years he's said this.
For my part, I said that I love him too, and that I'm there for him.
He then replied he didn't want to sound arrogant but that he knows I'm here for him.
That I am the strongest person he knows but he cannot give any guarantees.

Last night completely different pattern at the dinner with the friends, nothing to notice of all of the above. Unbelievable how he pulled his mask back on. He was actually quite ‘normal’.
When he got home he said he was going to sleep in the spare room, that what happened the day before was not OK and he is 100% sure we can never be a couple again. When I asked him why he had said that same morning that I was the woman of his life, he said, yes, that's right, it will always be you, but I don't know what I want.

It looks like little progress and very clear he is still very far away. Typical MLC behavior still present. Lots of uncertainty and confusion present.

Clearly a case of touch 'n go here, he wants me but at the same time he doesn't. He is also very curious if I have/had someone else, I just honestly answered that this is not the case at the moment.
However, now I am sure he is not actively in a relationship. He never wanted sexual interaction when he was with OW.

I won't deny that the above did not again created a bit of expectations. The familiar always feels very good. It's not very healthy...I realize this. However, I have no regrets. I deliberately allowed this. Just because I really wanted it myself.

And I have the emotions very well under control.

Today I left the kids with him to go for a 20+ km walk with a friend.
Various GAL activities planned for the rest of the week.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Posts: 403
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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I just remembered I already had written a similar story months ago, a few months after he left the house and DnJ gave a very good explanation as to why his behaviour was changing.

This was actually the following post (reply from DnJ): 2909024 21/11/2020 18:29
So 7 months ago!

Are we back in that situation? Then this is extremely crazy how he is going back and forward between the several stages...it seems like he didn't make progress at all.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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Posts: 4,645
Likes: 472
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Hello Eagle

Originally Posted by Eagle3
I just listened and validated.

Very good.well done.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Again he said he would like to return to his children and build a relationship with them again, I told him that he and only he can make that decision.

True in spirit and intent. However, it’s not he and only he, there is another side to those relationships and decision, the child. Their say and view is also of importance and worthy to be heard. Dad has bridges to repair and will need to roll up his sleeves and do some very humble and hard work.

Validate and encourage H. “H, I’m sure the kids would love a better relationship with you. It will take some work from you, and they will need to express their feelings. And I’d support you in this.” Something along those lines would be beneficial I think.

The love making. Nothing wrong with that. It is fun and enjoyable and will influence H’s feelings as well. It sounds like you are pretty sure he is not seeing anyone, otherwise the whole “cake and eat it to” disrespecting you would be something you’d need to factor.

Yes this was a touch and go. H will probably swing to the “go” side of that equation for a while. His confusion is quite evident as he flip and flops while he is trying to discover what he wants in life.

There can be benefit in not being available, not appearing to be waiting on the shelf. There can also be benefit to being close at times. No one knows all ends, so a long as you want to, and you are not being disrespected or emotionally hurt or getting expectations up, a little loving is probably a good thing. And don’t worry, the future will reveal itself as it unfolds.

I went back and read the post from seven months ago.

Originally Posted by Eagle3
Are we back in that situation?

We?

I don’t think so

H perhaps.

You not.

You have will and strength and can be in whatever situation you choose.

As for H, I’d like to believe he is making progress. It’s been almost four years for me and my XW hasn’t really even talked to me, never mind any loving, or attempts thereof. Don’t worry about H’s outward appearance of lacking progress. He is confused and sorting it out.

D


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Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Assuming you want to bust this divorce, I think you need to weaponize his fear of losing you. Be less present at home, be more active with friends, go visit restaurants and social scenes. Dress well, stay well groomed.

I did this in my situation, you choose if and how to do it based off of your situation.

I even stayed out all night when my W was home (which wasn't often) just to give her a taste of her own medicine. Now maybe that's not DB 101, but DB is doing what works too.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Hi Eagle,

How are you feeling about the LM? I know it can be hurtful and confusing when your H does such wild swings in behavior and words. I guess my first recommendation would be to really, truly check in with yourself and make sure you're okay with what is happening. (Though if it makes you feel any better, my H swore up and down he couldn't imagine ever having sex with me again and if we ended up staying together we would just have to live together like brother and sister. I asked him specifically about this the other day. He said he knows he said that but he doesn't think it was actually ever true, he just said it. He sure seemed to mean it at the time, though.)

For all of the times you're together on this visit, I'd try to laser focus on what feels right to you and what makes you feel at all angry, or uncomfortable-- those might be signals that you have boundaries that are being crossed.

How is the rest of the trip going? How is the GAL?

Hang in there!

May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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He knows you are there for him .... he told you . Basically he knows you aren’t going anywhere .

I had same thing with my husband . A lot of touch and goes. He used to show up to drop the kids off ; ask to shower and one time fell asleep in my bed .

One day I really had just had it and stopped answering quickly to texts or if he tried to make plans . He would call I stopped calling back . He got the message pretty clear .

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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DnJ
Validate and encourage H. “H, I’m sure the kids would love a better relationship with you. It will take some work from you, and they will need to express their feelings. And I’d support you in this.” Something along those lines would be beneficial I think.D

Indeed DnJ. That's what I've been doing all week. Just approach everything positively, listen and validate and this works wonderfully for me.
Normally he would leave today but will stay 2 more days. Plans to rent somewhere else within Europe for a few weeks (we live in Europe) to be on his own. He can always work remotely for his current job and does not want to return to that country for the time being because it is too hot over there.

Originally Posted by DnJ
The love making. Nothing wrong with that. It is fun and enjoyable and will influence H’s feelings as well. It sounds like you are pretty sure he is not seeing anyone, otherwise the whole “cake and eat it to” disrespecting you would be something you’d need to factor. D

Originally Posted by may22
How are you feeling about the LM? May

At this point I'm 100% sure he doesn't have anyone else. Obviously, he does not want to deal with this right now. When he has been drinking, the emotions are rising and this manifests in a physical way towards me. The fact that we ML is something I wanted for myself. I am a woman who has needs and does not want to seek them outside of our marriage because after all I am still married and my heart is still with him despite everything. I also made this clear to him.
The ML is when I need it. However, no taken advantage of me. Yet again something I made clear to him. This Saturday he came back into our bed and wanted to initiate LM but I refused. We did give each other a massage and cuddled for a while. He yet again told me he loved me. He wanted to go further a few times, but each time I drew my line and said that this is only possible when he can give back a certain commitment or when I initiate myself. He then went back to his own bed but was very respectful towards me. He can't commit and he understands the line I draw.
Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% happy I made ML with him last week. I don't have any mixed feelings about this, by the way. At that point it felt perfectly normal and good and a week later I still feel the same. I don't feel anger, fear or pain, just peace, so I know I did not cross any boundaries. I make the boundaries myself and he needs to follow them which he does.

Originally Posted by DnJ
There can be benefit in not being available, not appearing to be waiting on the shelf. There can also be benefit to being close at times. No one knows all ends, so a long as you want to, and you are not being disrespected or emotionally hurt or getting expectations up, a little loving is probably a good thing. And don’t worry, the future will reveal itself as it unfolds. D

Originally Posted by may22
How is the rest of the trip going? How is the GAL? May

Originally Posted by Caligirl
He knows you are there for him .... he told you . Basically he knows you aren’t going anywhere. One day I really had just had it and stopped answering quickly to texts or if he tried to make plans . He would call I stopped calling back . He got the message pretty clear. Caligirl

It's true that he knows I'm here for him. After all, I made it clear to him and I want him to know this too. The reason I'm doing this is because I've been in this for a while now and learned how to deal with him. What I’ve specifically learned is that MLC is a slightly different process and it is very important to change you behaviour if something isn’t working. Pushing him away, ignoring him or making him feel that I am no longer there for him is of no use. I’ve done that in the past and it made it worse for the both of us.
However, there is a difference between letting him know I'm there for him or waiting for him.
I don't do the latter. I told him I'm there when he feels like talking or when he wants to share his emotions but I'm not waiting for him.
I live, I go out with friends, also male friends, I invite many people at home, I plan weekends with girlfriends.
He also knows this since this week and of course he has asked a lot of questions about it. Who those male friends are (he doesn't know them, are old friends of mine I'm reconnecting with), if I'm going to have dinner with them, if I want more than just friendship etc.
I've said I’m not going to go into that in detail, I'm just saying that I'm having fun but today I don't feel like I’m ready for a relationship because my heart is not open to this yet and that I'm still married. That I also draw boundaries for myself there.
You know, at no point this week has he hurt me. I have reached the point where I 100% understand the process he is going through and I can now be a friend to him. Someone who is there for him when he wants to talk, also doing things together works perfectly.

Originally Posted by DnJ
As for H, I’d like to believe he is making progress. It’s been almost four years for me and my XW hasn’t really even talked to me, never mind any loving, or attempts thereof. Don’t worry about H’s outward appearance of lacking progress. He is confused and sorting it out. D

He is indeed making progress. I have seen this clearly. He knows what his problems are. He has separation anxiety as well as narcissistic traits. This has become clear after his sessions with his psychiatrist, but he acknowledges that he is still fighting it enormously. You can see the conflict arise when he talks about it. However, he also knows that his mother is the cause of many of his problems.
Furthermore, there is also his pride that plays an enormous role.
Telling me and his father and brother he's been wrong still works, but he honestly states he can't admit it to the rest of the world.
His brother said that it would be a strength that he no longer runs away from everything, but that he faces everything and makes a way back, that then he would be considered as a strong person.
Hopefully he takes everything with him what has happened and spoken about this week and thinks about it when he is by himself the coming weeks.

If not, I know our kids and I will be OK, whatever the outcome may be.

Have a nice day. xxx

Last edited by Eagle3; 07/05/21 09:55 AM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 403
Likes: 38
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Eagle3 Offline OP
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Would like some advice on the following:

I have decided for myself not to continue with the sale of the house for the time being, although this is if the boundaries I have set for myself towards him are not exceeded and these are no OW or disrespectful behavior towards the children or towards me.

Today I don't have to do it for financial reasons.
Our bills have already been split, financially I am strong there, I have my own car, only the house and the household effects are shared. There he pays half of everything monthly (we still have 1 joint account where these costs are paid from) There are extra deposits from both parties when necessary.
Every month I also have an amount for the children, he has paid this in advance for a whole year.

This means that I am financially better today and that I can save more. (otherwise I would have to pay the costs alone if I had my own home)

I pushed this for months because I felt like I had to get a divorce and be financially independent, as this would change my feelings towards him but now realize this isn't true at all.
That won't make the difference, I'll make the difference myself.

You know that he signed the wrong version of the sales agreement just before he came over and then this week while he was here he was going to sign the correct version. However, he is leaving this evening. We never talked about this at any point. He didn't bring it up himself either.

Should I still do this or simply not talk about it?


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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