WW: "I'm not going to let you make me feel guilty"

[Drh2001]

So recent developments and sorry this is a bit long...

My daughter spent a week in hospital and I saw WW there. Obviously with emergencies, things can change but her attitude did not.

She told me she will "unblock my number" so for a short time we texted about the kids. One morning I was driving my kid to school and she said "Mommy doesn't like it when you talk to her cousin"

Her unblocking you for the kids sake makes sense.... Until you go ahead and do this.

I texted WW to tell her that my keeping in touch with this person has nothing to do with her and wasn't done to spite her or cause problems.

Another option would have been to just listen to your D. What was the point and taking your kid's comment and texting your XW? Seems like an emotional response here.

She wrote back and had the nerve to tell me that it hurts her when I talk to her cousin and crosses a boundary. I told her not to talk about herself and boundaries in the same sentence and I reminded her that she destroyed my relationship with her sister and another friend of the family.

She responded that "I had lost the respect of her sister and another friend even though they were the ones who aided and abetted her adultery and told her to cover her tracks, delete her emails etc.

There was nothing abusive or rude about the texts I send her. Her last text was "Good bye"

Really?
From the outside - it looks like you got angry and texted her. She got defensive. You continued to 'remind' her of all she did to you. You got triggered and took it out on her.. when this could have ALL been avoided by not engaging at all

I told her I would block her again and did. I also blocked her email. The only contact we have is through Google calendar which is solely used for the kids.

I can't imagine this will work long term.

Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because WW dug a hole for herself?

Well honestly... because it comes with Divorce. D - Are you being honest with yourself? Because what you say ^^^ doesn't match the following.

Now this cousin of WW is much older, like 70. She always treats everyone the same and continued to reach out to me and ask me how I am, how are the kids etc. She is close to the kids and is upset that WW doesn't visit her with them.

If this is your TRUE reason then next time - try this.

"Wife. I understand that this may be difficult for you but cousin and the kids relationship is important to one another. Because of this - I will continue to take them to visit her."

This cousin always hosted parties at her house (pre pandemic) and would invite the whole family - for July 4th get togethers, New Year's Eve parties etc - in the last two years she realized that no one bothers with her or asks her how she is doing. As a result, she has stopped hosting parties and get togethers. She told me that WW and her sister don't bother with her and don't stay in touch.

If I'm in the neighborhood, I will occasionally stop by with the kids so they can still have that contact with family. Obviously I told the cousin that I could no longer attend family events since I am divorced but I'm ok with stopping by to check in on her.

[quote=Drh2001]Why should the kids be deprived of family? The eldest one said she misses her family in another state because WW had a falling out with her other relative because her relative disapproved of WW's adultery and her leaving me for another man.

Are you listening and validating their feelings?? Or are you trying to use it as ammo for something?

I wrote WW a final email telling her that if you can't take ownership, accountability and responsibility for what you have done, then I want nothing more to do with you and please don't ever contact me again..

This is NOT a boundary. You gave your wife an ultimatum. Another control tactic.

But neither will I just accept her decisions and her bad behavior because she still has that very resentful, disrespectful and rebellious attitude towards me.

She keeps saying what she has done is in the past and I should just move on and let it be but I told her I am living in the present with the consequences of what she has done in the past and they will reverberate into the future.

So I maintain no contact with exWW and that's just how I like it. I am slowly rebuilding my life and starting to get back into shape. It's a long process though.

D- I am reading so much hurt and anger in your post. No contact is probably good... but not because of her... but because you literally can't communicate with her w/o spewing your pain and hurt all over her.

No one says you have to put up with bad behavior... but you are trying to show her that versus just doing it regardless of what she thinks.

Stop punishing her and criticizing her. Life will do that all on its own and it doesn't need your help.

thanks for reply.

I can see that but the control issue goes both ways and she feels she can control me by telling me who I can and can't talk to.

I don't contact this cousin very often - she is an old lady and she usually asks me about the kids etc. We don't discuss exWW.

I'm not really thinking in terms of ultimatums or control when I told her she can't contact me anymore. She told my youngest kid that she wants to remain "friends" but I don't want this.

[Drh2001]

Hi KitKat,

I've tried the empathy thing but her disrespect towards me, refusing to ask for my consent to move my kids to another state (had to contact my lawyer) riles me.

I'm not angry at my child for telling me what her mother said. I made that clear to her.

I will try harder not to react out of emotion next time.

[Drh2001]

I understand divorce changes things - so I don't go to parties that this cousin organizes and she knows that but she doesn't do it anymore anyway for the reasons I gave above.

She chooses to stay in touch with me and for my kids.

My kids don't have any contact with their mother's family because of what their mother has done.

I live a good distance from this cousin but I do pass her on the way to work and I sometimes take the kids with me and do something in the area. If I'm near, I'll stop by with the kids. There is no bad intention here.

[Valeska19]

I can see that but the control issue goes both ways and she feels she can control me by telling me who I can and can't talk to.

Try this again w/o saying bring your wife into it. She told her kid... she didn't tell you. You brought it up. Is it possible to just look at your part?

I don't contact this cousin very often - she is an old lady and she usually asks me about the kids etc. We don't discuss exWW.

Is this in response to me questioning you about your motive? Do you see the discrepancies in comments?

I'm not really thinking in terms of ultimatums or control when I told her she can't contact me anymore. She told my youngest kid that she wants to remain "friends" but I don't want this.

Then why feel the need to send the final email.

I'm encouraging you to go deeper here.

[Drh2001]

I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.


The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.

[Valeska19]

I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

Here is the discrepancy
You: "Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?"
This statement is clearly not about your kids - but your relationship with her family. This was the first thing you wrote. Your kids relationship was secondary.

When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

Did you?? Doubtful. First of all.. let's look at the facts. All she told her kid was that she didn't like something. Did she call you and talk about it no? YOU gave it so much power from there. YOU turned it into a problem. She just told you how she felt about it (after you initiated the conversation) and YOU felt the need to tell her what she deserved. Hate to tell you - but she is entitled to her feelings... just like you... whether you feel like she deserves them or not. Again.. that is your pain spewing all over her.

I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.

Yeah.. but do you think she can hear or believe that when you are calling her and saying she doesn't deserve her feelings??

The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.

Honestly from what you described in this last post... all the disrespect came from you. All you are doing is trying to control a situation by trying to control her. All you are doing... is just showing her how hurt you are over and over again.

She might have hurt you... but it is YOUR responsibility to how you respond. Your anger got the best of you in this last interaction. Is that how you want to be?

[Drh2001]

I'm not understanding you about discrepancies. As for the part about motives, I'm setting the record straight that I'm not communicating with this cousin to cause issues with exWW. We go back a long way.

Here is the discrepancy
You: "Why should I have to lose my existing good relationships with ppl because exWW dug a hole for herself?"
This statement is clearly not about your kids - but your relationship with her family. This was the first thing you wrote. Your kids relationship was secondary.

When my kid told me what her mother said, I could have let it go, but I saw the possibility of exWW telling my kids that they aren't allowed to see their relative if they're with me, so it was an opportunity to nip that in the bud.

Did you?? Doubtful. First of all.. let's look at the facts. All she told her kid was that she didn't like something. Did she call you and talk about it no? YOU gave it so much power from there. YOU turned it into a problem. She just told you how she felt about it (after you initiated the conversation) and YOU felt the need to tell her what she deserved. Hate to tell you - but she is entitled to her feelings... just like you... whether you feel like she deserves them or not. Again.. that is your pain spewing all over her.

I did tell exWW that I'm not doing this to cause harm or upset her, that her relative treats everyone the same.

Yeah.. but do you think she can hear or believe that when you are calling her and saying she doesn't deserve her feelings??

The final email is meant to ram home that I won't be disrespected by someone who can't keep any agreement (she broke several), would pick my kids up at times when it wasn't her turn to have custody of them and always without telling me. I could go on but you get the point.

Honestly from what you described in this last post... all the disrespect came from you. All you are doing is trying to control a situation by trying to control her. All you are doing... is just showing her how hurt you are over and over again.

She might have hurt you... but it is YOUR responsibility to how you respond. Your anger got the best of you in this last interaction. Is that how you want to be?

Of course not.

I see my relationship with her family and her family with my kids as one and the same thing. I don't know if what I said makes sense because I don't analyze it that way. It just is.

My kids only have me and their mother as family in our area. There are no relatives that live nearer. My youngest daughter has very few friends. I'm a believer in keeping touch with family and making an effort with them regardless of whether they're blood related, in-laws, or no longer related by marriage. It's something I've always done, to stay in contact.

I'm not good at the reply to quote thing as the board is slow today and when I went to edit a post it didn't edit properly.

So let me give some context. This is not the first time this has happened. I took the kids to see the same cousin a few months ago and that upset her.

So when this happened again, I worried about her throwing a spanner in the works and telling my kids not to see her family if they're with me.

At no point did I curse her out, so I think the accusation of disrespect is a bit of a tall order here.

When the kids are with me, who I see is my own business and not hers.


I don't see controlling a situation as being such an awful thing especially in this instance. Would you rather I didn't control and just succumb to whatever her desires are for any given day? I don't really get it. Would you rather I not speak to this relative anymore because it hurts her and crosses boundaries? Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.

[Drh2001]

I'm getting 504 Bad Gateway messages so if I don't respond right away or my posts don't get through that is the reason.

[Valeska19]

Of course not.

I see my relationship with her family and her family with my kids as one and the same thing. I don't know if what I said makes sense because I don't analyze it that way. It just is.

My kids only have me and their mother as family in our area. There are no relatives that live nearer. My youngest daughter has very few friends. I'm a believer in keeping touch with family and making an effort with them regardless of whether they're blood related, in-laws, or no longer related by marriage. It's something I've always done, to stay in contact.

No one is saying for you to change this.

So let me give some context. This is not the first time this has happened. I took the kids to see the same cousin a few months ago and that upset her.

So let her be upset.. but for you to call her about it won't change anything. And it seems like it scared you so you did following.

So when this happened again, I worried about her throwing a spanner in the works and telling my kids not to see her family if they're with me.

Yeah and tried to control it. But you can't. Even though you called - she could still tell the kids that. What you CAN control is still visiting them regardless of what mom says. Did your daughter say she didn't want to see her family because of what mom said? Did she say that family visits now stress her out.?? How could you have handled that differently??

At no point did I curse her out, so I think the accusation of disrespect is a bit of a tall order here.

Are you familiar with Gottman and the 4 horsemen that destroys communication. It doesn't include cursing.

When the kids are with me, who I see is my own business and not hers.

You made it her business when you called her to talk about it. Don't you see that? It could have just been an upset feeling... but you took it so much farther.

I don't see controlling a situation as being such an awful thing especially in this instance. Would you rather I didn't control and just succumb to whatever her desires are for any given day? I don't really get it. Would you rather I not speak to this relative anymore because it hurts her and crosses boundaries? Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.

My hope is to see that you could have stayed true to yourself without showing your XW anything. You could have continued on the trip w/o engaging in a conversation at all with her. You could continue relationships w/o saying anything to her at all. You did not need to send that email - you could just live it in daily interactions.

Never mind that she had sex with a stranger in a hotel and went on to have an affair while living with me and my kids. That too me is disrespect not my being righteously upset with her.

I am asking how you feel you were being morally right and fair (the meaning of righteous). Is it morally right to tell someone what they deserve?
You get to be upset with what she did to you. You get to create distance and protect yourself w/ boundaries. There are great books to help you communicate them effectively (a complete 180 from how you currently are). Unfortunately you do NOT get to tell someone what they deserve in this world. It is one thing to say it out of anger... another to believe it at it's core. Which do you feel is true for you?

I hope you can find a safe way to process all this pain. I truly understand how hard this all is...

(((D )))

[BL42]

Drh2001,

First, I hope your daughter is alright...a week in the hospital sounds serious.

You're getting good advice from Valeska19 & KitCat. It was your daughter who mentioned ExW's feelings about your relationship with her family, not ExW. You would've been better served to listen and validate with daughter and not reach out to ExW about it unless she broached the subject. For one, ExW will likely tell daughter not to talk to you about those things and it may erode some of daughter's trust with you. For another, you're the one initiating the confrontation w/ExW which isn't going to help with your co-parenting relationship. I concur the Google Calendar doesn't seem tenable over time considering kids. I've been handling most things over email fairly successfully, but a few things here and there on text.

You mention ExW moving out of state and the affair as well in the context of a text exchange about visiting her cousin. To me that shows anger spilling into other interactions. Your anger is certainly understandable considering her actions and betrayal, but if you can process it outside your interactions and keep things to business and the kids, it might help.

Hang in there Drh. I'm sure with your Ex leaving the state and you having the kids most of the school week has to be tough, but keep being a great dad to them.