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A Message from Michele
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I hate to be that guy, but J your ex is probably one of the most respectful WAS I've ever seen on here. I think at a certain point here you need to realize it isn't that she doesn't respect you it's that she doesn't feel in love with you and has no comprehension what so ever that it hurts you because you're still very much in love with her. I think the bigger issue is here is how much do you respect yourself? Do you respect yourself enough to set healthy boundaries that'll protect you while you heal? Do you love yourself enough to not focus all your energy on getting her back and expend a lot more of that energy in the direction of being the best you, you can be?

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Yesterday I realized that I really must move on, move forward. I was having difficulty with letting go of hope (and to be honest I still do have some) and I'm seeing how it clouds my need to imagine a new future as well as healing my heart.


Is it "hope" you have trouble letting go, or is it her? I suggest you place your hope in another field or direction, rather than your WW. Try this........instead of dwelling on hope for reconciliation, or if you struggle giving up that particular hope, tell yourself "It is what it is, and I'm moving on with my life". You can't fix her or force a R, so stop giving it so many of your brain cells. It is what it is, and you can't change it, so move on. I think some people have to stop labeling it as giving up hope, b/c it messes with their head too much. Redirect your hope toward you, and the areas you want to develop in your life. Take this time while you are alone to enjoy the things you couldn't do as a couple, or b/c she didn't like the same things.

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1) Let go, respect her and her decision.


That doesn't mean you have to like or agree with the decisions she makes. Understand? You leave her alone and let her deal with the decisions she's made. You don't run to her rescue, or try to arrange a closer relationship between her and the child, give her advice, pressure her, or get involved in her drama.

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The first is hard for me, I just don't know how to let go of being in love with her AND when I see her AND when she send me text messages outside of picture of our daughter like this morning I get so confused:


First of all, you must read No More Mr. Nice Guy, b/c you will not understand why you do the things you do until you read that book. And, you won't understand what we mean when refer to NGS. Second, you must continue therapy. Not for your M problems, but for whatever happened when you were a kid that makes you afraid of losing connection with a person, and whatever other issues exist due to it. As for not knowing how to let go of being in love, I'll tell you this much. Time has a way of helping us get over loving someone that didn't love us back or love us enough. Created distance isn't just about being miles apart physically, but in thought and through little or no contact. With a child, you will need to have some contact with her mother, but IMHO, it is currently too much. Stop checking social media to see her or to see if she "likes" anything about you. That's nothing but a game that you'll never win as long as she has this avenue of power over you. GAL is the most common advice successful LBS's give readers. All of these things require your cooperation. You have to help yourself.

The part about her traveling more often and allowing her to take my daughter for long extended periods of time hurts (missing my daughter) AND I'm willing to do it because I care about the connection between her mom and my daughter AND I'm hoping she sees this as a positive thing and that gets reflected on to me AND she sees how I value family.

This is exactly what NGS is all about. You are willing to give up valuable time with your child, in hopes it will have a positive influence on how your WW sees you.......thus, hopefully (again), change her current feelings for you. mad Let me tell you something. She will not appreciate your sacrifice, and it could harm your relationship with your child. Once you allow your WW to take part of your allotted time for the child, then she'll expect it in the future. You are dealing with a selfish, spoiled, self entitled, wayward woman. She could care less how much you value family. You cannot nice her back into your arms!!! You could give up everything you have for her, and it still would not change her heart. And just for the record, giving up parental time with your child does not prove how much you value family.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Jhopeful,

Just read your thread and wonder if the background got glossed over a bit...

Originally Posted by Jhopeful
She was married for 10 years and got divorced aprox 2 years ago - she said the relationship was over about a year before that. She left him and may have gone on dates or slept with someone before the divorce was final. Her ex shamed her all across town. More on him later

She was married for a decade, had an affair, and divorced her husband? How much of that story do you really know vs. what she told you? Food for thought...my W had an affair with a married co-worker with 3 young daughters. When it ended she started dating OM2, filed for D and moved out and moved him in. How accurate of a story to you think she's telling OM2 (or her family and friends for that matter) about our situation? My guess is she's telling him every bad thing she can exaggerate or make up to make him feel better about the situation of...her being married. I bet he think's I'm a jerk and she hasn't filled him in on the details of her affair. Is it possible your W had some major issues and wanted you to think that she was the aggrieved party?

Originally Posted by Jhopeful

We met on a bus in Mexico in Jan 2017...

When I returned back to the US in march we started long distance dating. It was fun and light. We met in different places across the country about 5 times.

Then in September she told me that she wanted to move to Colorado to be together. At first I was apprehensive and told her I needed to think about that. Then after some thought I said yes.

She moved out in January2018

Not sure I'm getting the timeline right, but it sounds like you met on a vacation, dated long distance with a couple meet-ups, and then she quickly wanted to move out to CO with you, which you were hesitant about. Were things moving too fast? Was she love-bombing you?

Originally Posted by Jhopeful
Leading up to Poppy's brith I stopped having sex with her. I think the stress got to me. Unfortunately our communication wasn’t strong enough. Additionally she never made any real advances towards me.

Seems like things weren't good between you before your kid was born?

Originally Posted by Jhopeful
I did feel like I was living in Josh’s shadow. She often would say that I was controlling, her BF told me once that she felt that she never worked through that relationship.

Seems likely. She was married ten years and dated someone quickly before she was divorced (or very possibly was having an affair) and then moved out to live near someone she met on a vacation. Doesn't sound like someone who was working on herself to process the decade long marriage.


Me:39 Ex-W:36
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:2
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by BL42
She was married for a decade, had an affair, and divorced her husband? How much of that story do you really know vs. what she told you? Food for thought...my W had an affair with a married co-worker with 3 young daughters. When it ended she started dating OM2, filed for D and moved out and moved him in. How accurate of a story to you think she's telling OM2 (or her family and friends for that matter) about our situation? My guess is she's telling him every bad thing she can exaggerate or make up to make him feel better about the situation of...her being married. I bet he think's I'm a jerk and she hasn't filled him in on the details of her affair. Is it possible your W had some major issues and wanted you to think that she was the aggrieved party?


BL is wise


Me: 39 W:41
T: 14 M: 11
S: 5

BD & OM Jun 2020
W moves out Aug 2020

"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
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@wayfarer
@sandi2
@BL42
@OnlyBent


Lots of great points.

Yes - Agreed, there are things in how she is handling this that she is doing with a lot kindness.

Yes - NGS is the next book I'll be reading.

Yes - I do wonder about the way her marriage was ending and she was separated then had sex with someone else.

I have thought repeatedly about her actions and her level of work that she has done or not done on herself....but what I', realizing is that it doesn't matter to me at this point.

The advice and reasoning that everyone has been giving me is becoming clearer and clearer. TBH I'm kind of blown away that people are caring enough about me to offer me so much of their time to reply - so I'm going to take a leap and be a bit more vulnerable and fill who ever is reading this what I've been learning about myself.



In terms of therapy and how I have been working on myself:
I am in therapy a few times a week.
- I am talking with my regular therapist
- An addiction therapist
- A somatic therapist who is helping me learn to understand my feelings and emotions and learn self regulation.


What I have discovered about myself since this all started:

1) As a toddler I never felt secure nor validated - I lived outside of myself in order to understand how to feel safe, in other words I am a people pleasure and certainly have a lack of respect at times for myself. At 47 I am only learning how to live and be connected to my own authentic sense of self. I have needed outside reflection, sympathy and validation for my entire life. Disassociation is what I have always done. Lacking a sense of feeling real is ground zero for me.

> I am connecting to this authentic self both through feeling my hard scary feelings and real self examination. Daily walks and weights is helping and I plan on adding more in the next few weeks. Everything I'm working on rests on this self acknowledgement, self love and self acceptance. Before I realized this to it's fullest extent I didn't fully exist without someone in front on me and in this case I didn't have "a home" in myself without her.

(side note: this people pleaser life has lead me to be very driven and successful in business and in sport)


2) My abandonment wound is right in front of me. I wanted her to take care of me and my emotions. I lacked self regulation skills. My hoping she will come back now feels like me wanting her to make that pain go away. "No more mr nice guy" - it's interesting how much that keeps coming up. I took a 1 day seminar with Dr Glover 15years ago. Apparently I didn't take good notes. To be honest - I live a lot like a victim and feed off of sympathy.

> This is all about me learning to heal as much of this as I can to work with it as best as I can and to be a healthy version of myself for me, my daughter and have an open heart in the future. Also I plan on looking into attachment styles at some point. To be a separate and whole person without the need of someone else. I know how I have been living like a victim and living in scarcity and survival most of the past few years - separating from this "need" of sympathy is clear to me now and I'm working on becoming the strongest version of myself for myself.


3) I have been / was addicted to things most easily found on the internet my entire life.

> I am now 33 days sober. I see to a very large extent how this has impacted many aspects of my life let alone any and every relationship I've ever had. Therapy, self discipline, commitment to myself and healthy my future relationships is my north star. I continue to see and remind myself the significant impact this has had on my quality of life in so many areas.


4) I have only been talking about the shame around my own sexuality for 4 months. I had an inappropriate therapist in high school that left me feeling insecure about my own sense of masculinity and femininity. I have hidden my sensitive side and shamed my masculine, rejected most forms of masculinity most of my life.

> About every other week I am talking with someone who understands relationships and both masculine and feminine within ourselves. I've identified that I need to work on both learning to accept the qualities of the feminine within myself and use them for self care etc and also connect with my power, confidence and all 4 quadrants of the masculine.


All of these things and a few more have created a self-loathing, anxious and shameful internal dialog.

And to be honest now that I've typed this all out the thought crossed my mind that someone reading this is saying to themselves "No wonder she left him..."


Regarding "A"
I'm limiting conversation with her. I am finding more strength to create space to heal. I am realizing that every time I go to the past or the future I am trying to control an outcome. I'm pretty non existent from social media at this point.

I realized I was much into her space with periodic messages to her friends or to her sister. I am staying in touch with her mom when I have my daughter present because her mom could pass at any point.

I requested that her and I have a conversation about how to handle all the future finances. I mentioned that if she wanted to go to a mediator to discuss it I would be fine with that. She said "we never had good conversations about money so I think it's a good idea and I'll schedule it." So there are future up and coming face to face meetings, I do plan on talking with a lawyer prior just so I know what I should be aware of. I have the potential to make a lot of money in the coming years and very large assets that I will leave to my daughter so I want to understand things one way or the other.

I am touching parts of anger the past 10 days, it helps and I'm trying not to label her as "bad" and working not to develop "resentment."

Today was my daughter's birthday. Her mom always sends me pictures of special moments of our daughters life, today, (while her friends our in town) I didn't get any. This is a case where I begin to slip into an unhealthy thought cycle.

I'm learning to stay in my lane and do my absolute best to not wonder or guess or go back in the past or hope to plan a future with her. My work is to continue my healing, be the best dad and bring more joy into my life.


I think I should be fair to say I will slip up, fall down and with help from myself and others (like you who's reading) I'll get back up. This all [censored].


So I think I haven't answered all the questions that people have been posing to me and I'm not sure how to use the full editor yet which I think would help.



@sandi2 - this was really helpful:
Is it "hope" you have trouble letting go, or is it her? I suggest you place your hope in another field or direction, rather than your WW. Try this........instead of dwelling on hope for reconciliation, or if you struggle giving up that particular hope, tell yourself "It is what it is, and I'm moving on with my life". You can't fix her or force a R, so stop giving it so many of your brain cells. It is what it is, and you can't change it, so move on. I think some people have to stop labeling it as giving up hope, b/c it messes with their head too much. Redirect your hope toward you, and the areas you want to develop in your life. Take this time while you are alone to enjoy the things you couldn't do as a couple, or b/c she didn't like the same things.


I'm sure there will be more to check in on. Thank you everyone.
-J

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Congrats on the 33 days! Remember, one day at a time!!


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Hi everyone,

Seems like my last post may have been intense?

A has continued to be kind.

I have immersed myself in my own life (GAL) and just bought a house - that happens to be down the street from mutual friends of ours. I bought it mostly for me 65% me and I am admitting to myself that my hope is that maybe it could be our new home. The home I am currently in is rented and has a lot of memories I want to leave behind.

I am growing more aware each week, tending to my own emotions, learning to focus more on me, creating a less distractive life.

I realized my super power is multi-tasking, providing and achieving. I didn't know how to be emotionally available because I wasn't doing that for myself.

I have been kind and brief with A and she has noticed.

I have stood up for myself on one occasion when she got somewhat verbally aggressive. I later told her calmly that I don't want us to have conversations when we are unregulated and laid out a brief plan on what we can do the next time. I am working on my nice guy.

She ask to schedule an "introduction to mediation" with a mediator and I am a little triggered by it at the moment internally but also perhaps its a chance for me to feel how much I've grown as she takes steps.

When I told her I bought a house I made it clear that I bought it for our daughter and I. She replied that she was happy for me and that she knows I've been wanting that for awhile. She also said that she wants to buy a house next year.

These comments of her expressing her own sovereignty do make me sad.....and I am continuing to recover and forge ahead.

I'm not following Sandi rules to a "T"......as she sometimes exchanges text messages that are light and somewhat engaging and I sometime engage.


Moving forward and still hopeful.
-J

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