Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
Originally Posted by Elbereth
Or is it that men want a strong woman, but once they have one, they resent the strength and try to pull you down to their level? I don't know, but I know I need to do some work around this area and about how I feed or react to these sort of issues. My XH also grew to hate my strength. I thought my current H was a strong person when we first met, but time showed me that he isn't. Our courtship was quick, so by the time I saw these things, I was already living with him and fully committed to him. I want to be sure I find a true partner and equal in my next relationship. So this is an area I need to focus on. As my mom didn't remarry for a long time, I did not grow up a father figure until my early teens (my bio dad wasn't around). Maybe that has affected the choices I've made in my life on men? l


I truly could've written this about my first MR. My grandfather was a great father, husband, provider, and man. He was a great one, but lack of a father did impact me. Regardless of how hard my grandfather did and does love me, because I at 37, the eldest of all the grandchildren, am still his princess. The rejection of a father who couldn't be bothered to so much as a cut a check to my mom or take off after I was born it a huge hurdle to overcome. Then the series of my mother's mistakes trying to fill that position did not help my picker one bit. It's taken YYYEEEAAARRRSS of therapy to dig through that.

My exH and I moved way too swiftly and I because we were so young I flat out ignored red flags.

As far as men go. You have a pretty good sampling of guys here who understand what it is to be with a strong woman, and have an appreciation for it. But I can say weak men in particular are drawn to strong women, they fix things, and get sh!t done. Thus eliminating their need to. It's all rainbow and roses to them until we get sick of carrying the burden of being the only adult in the relationship. Then we're controlling, and never happy, and they're never enough. You know because you asked them to clean up after themselves, or take care of their kids, or heaven forbid ask to be a priority in their lives. They then will follow you up with a weak willed women who lets them do what they want, when they want, and allows them to be the superhero when all they are offering is the absolute bare minimum.

Strong men also love a strong women, and in all the right ways. They love to be challenged. They love that they don't have to carry the burden of the relationship or the household. They love the decisiveness, and the fiery attitude even if that part isn't always their favorite. They love a woman who speaks her mind. Says what she wants and needs. And most of all how a strong woman loves. Because we truly love with ever fiber of our being.

Your H wants a doormat who will do everything for him with out complaint. You aren't that person. And he can't fool you about who he really is any more.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Hi Steve,

Originally Posted by Steve
My 20/20 glasses have convinced me that what we should be looking for is someone that is crazy about us, not that we are crazy about.

Once upon a time, I dated a woman who was crazy about me for 5yrs, and I don't recommend that, either. I knew I was settling, I wondered what was out there, and eventually, I found the courage to leave.

Originally Posted by Steve
he prioritized how much she loved him over looks.

I hope he didn't settle so much as find beauty in her that others overlooked--soulful eyes, generous affection, a playfulness or sensuality about her that makes him smile. I have a chubby friend who's married to a model-like woman--they were best friends for years and she fell for his character. We miss much swiping profiles or on first coffee dates. I doubt I have it all figured out, but my criteria for my next partner are like so--

Attraction: 7+/10
Values: Loyal, Kind, Active, Affectionate
How do I feel around them? What do they bring out in me?

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by wayfarer
As far as men go. You have a pretty good sampling of guys here who understand what it is to be with a strong woman, and have an appreciation for it. But I can say weak men in particular are drawn to strong women, they fix things, and get sh!t done. Thus eliminating their need to. It's all rainbow and roses to them until we get sick of carrying the burden of being the only adult in the relationship. Then we're controlling, and never happy, and they're never enough. You know because you asked them to clean up after themselves, or take care of their kids, or heaven forbid ask to be a priority in their lives. They then will follow you up with a weak willed women who lets them do what they want, when they want, and allows them to be the superhero when all they are offering is the absolute bare minimum.

Wayfarer tell us how you really feel about men lol.

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by wayfarer
As far as men go. You have a pretty good sampling of guys here who understand what it is to be with a strong woman, and have an appreciation for it. But I can say weak men in particular are drawn to strong women, they fix things, and get sh!t done. Thus eliminating their need to. It's all rainbow and roses to them until we get sick of carrying the burden of being the only adult in the relationship. Then we're controlling, and never happy, and they're never enough. You know because you asked them to clean up after themselves, or take care of their kids, or heaven forbid ask to be a priority in their lives. They then will follow you up with a weak willed women who lets them do what they want, when they want, and allows them to be the superhero when all they are offering is the absolute bare minimum.

Wayfarer tell us how you really feel about men lol.

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
Originally Posted by LH19
Wayfarer tell us how you really feel about men lol.


Hahahaha. You know me LH, I don't mince my words about guys who play act at being men when they are really just little boys.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
Hi E,

I wanted to pop in and just echo what a few others have said-- you're super strong and have a great head on your shoulders. And, when you've got both DnJ AND Wayfarer commenting on your posts, you know you're getting incredible advice so I'm just here to add a bit of moral support!

The only thing I wanted to comment on is this-- I know it is natural to want to dissect the MR issues with your H in your head, his weakness, incapacity to be a good partner, etc. I think that can be helpful for detaching as you start to see him as a human being and not just your H, is this someone you'd choose to be with if you were meeting him now, and all those related questions. All that being said, I also think you want to balance out time spent ruminating there with all the GAL stuff you're doing so well, and put some limits on that so that you're filling your cup with healthy and positive future-oriented things even while you allocate some time to thinking about your H and your MR.

xx May


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,645
Likes: 472
D
DnJ Online
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,645
Likes: 472
Hello El

Interesting discussion regarding partners and marriage. Trust, respect, and sincerity really top the list of must haves.

My second oldest son is considering marriage. Needless to say I’ve invested some time into considering and mulling over the topic of relationships. I thought I’d share my musing from a while ago, given we are all around similar age with children growing up and looking into starting families. I suspect there will be a view or two that resonates within yourself. smile

Originally Posted by DnJ
My kids are growing and getting closer and closer to marriage. I’ve no doubt S23 and S22 will someday pop the question. And as Dad, and someone who’s been around the block, I will pass on my advice to them. S22 as already ask for some regarding engagement and marriage. I know my suggestions to the kids would be taken with high regard and respect.

The idea of a prenuptial agreement, oddly may not be as proposed from me as one might think I would (given the wild betrayal XW inflicted). With little to no individual assets going into a marriage, the worst case of 50/50 is probably the agreements young adults would make anyhow. If one has significant pre-marriage assets, then an agreement would protect that.

Utilizing a prenup to somehow strengthen a marriage - by if one decides to leave or cheat or whatever, they get nothing - would not work. Fear and financial ruin is not good reason to stay, and turns one (or both) into more slaves than partners.

Still, an agreement, if they were to want one, would be interesting and useful in that they would not be bind-sided as to what they are actually getting into. I’ve consider, what would 27 year married and now divorced DnJ tell his younger self so many years ago. What wisdom would I pass back to myself? That is where I’m coming from regarding passing wisdom forward to my kids.

I’ve passed on plenty of life lessons. Love, emotions, intellect, money, debt management, crisis, grief, responsibility, loyalty, faith, faithfulness, work ethic, personal ethics, beliefs, ego, accountability, and the list goes on.

Marriage. That formal union of two people. The taking of a relationship to the next and highest level. Why get married? That is the question that leads to the wisdom I’d pass on.

Most people get married for love. They are in love and therefore get married. But why? You already have the love. What does marriage do? Why do you need to get married? You already have the love.

People marry for love. They should and need to marry the person, not the love. Love is the icing on the cake; it is not the cake.

A marriage should be based upon a solid respectful relationship, which both parties want to, and vow to, up hold and strengthen.

Love is a thing. Marrying for love is no better than marrying for money. Marry the person not the thing. Vow to the person not the feelings you have.

That distinction allows people to weather the storms of life. Love ebbs and flows, has its ups and downs, yet the person remains. Marry the person. (This is some of the reason I am where I am. Have the beliefs I do. Make the choices I do.)

Society is nowadays wired and programmed to expect instant gratification. Everything is promised to be available at the push of a button. Lol. And when it isn’t - boom! People have melt downs. Egos are so huge. The sense of entitlement is enormous.

The unrealized programmed expectations and demands of people lead to resentments within their lives. Unrealized resentments. Just look around at society. Are people happy? Full of purpose and joy and contentment and peace? Sadly, the answer is no. True there are individuals and pockets of society that do live that way. However, society is largely wound up pretty tight with most things a sensationalized concern with nary a direct tie to the individual, to themselves. The truly important stuff of their lives they invest the least into. Marriage being near the top of that list. There is a reason divorce is so rampant.

One of my most despised ideas of the current age is “life hacks”. First it’s not a hack - it’s cheating! Second, that quick shortcut leads nowhere really. One doesn’t learn or acquire the knowledge or skills of said “hack”, and cannot actually perform it. True authentic traits or skills take time and effort. It is within that pursuit, and the personal effort invested, that provide the dividends the hackers are trying to find.

Don’t hack your marriage. It’s not love at the push of a button. It’s work. It’s commitment of the highest order. The personal dividends from such a pursuit are incredible. Ensure you realize the correct path to walk. And have the conviction to walk it.

None of my kids or their BF/GF would want their partner to do what Mom/XW did to me. I know this advice/wisdom would be well received, for the foundation has been crafted for many years. Be responsible, reliable, accountable, ethical, honest - do the work, for there are no shortcuts to the true goals you seek.

Don’t marry for love, is so counterintuitive, until it isn’t.

Looking back, I think young DnJ and old DnJ would have a pretty interesting conversation.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 368
Likes: 36
E
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 368
Likes: 36
Hello friends. I've not been able to sit on down and really take the time to respond until now. Been keeping busy and had some nice evenings with friends, and lots of work stuff this week, so that is good. All your responses have given me so much to think about!

Originally Posted by SteveLW
However, it seems to me he is a bit of a piece of work. When he starts feeling stressed or overwhelmed in his current marriage he goes looking for something else. Depression, avoidant, not being there for his spouse, all sound like deep character flaws that can only be worked through with intense therapy, and certainly not alcohol. At this point I would be running for the door if I were you!


I'm struggling with this...as I have been dwelling on these thoughts for a while now and I'm not really sure what to think anymore. I've been cautioned about rewriting my past with H, but I can't help but wonder if the person I thought he was, was a mirage? Maybe his flaws became more intense or obvious due to the crisis? Or maybe they were there and I ignored them? I don't know...but I do know that this person he is now is not who I want to be with. I agree with what you say below...that's the goal!

Originally Posted by SteveLW
So take your time. Learn to be happy alone. Do the work necessary on yourself and don't jump into something new right away. We are about the same age, and at our age everyone we meet will have their own emotional baggage. Make sure they've worked through all of that themselves, and that you have through yours, before jumping into something again.


Originally Posted by Wayfarer
As far as men go. You have a pretty good sampling of guys here who understand what it is to be with a strong woman, and have an appreciation for it. But I can say weak men in particular are drawn to strong women, they fix things, and get sh!t done. Thus eliminating their need to. It's all rainbow and roses to them until we get sick of carrying the burden of being the only adult in the relationship. Then we're controlling, and never happy, and they're never enough. You know because you asked them to clean up after themselves, or take care of their kids, or heaven forbid ask to be a priority in their lives. They then will follow you up with a weak willed women who lets them do what they want, when they want, and allows them to be the superhero when all they are offering is the absolute bare minimum.

Strong men also love a strong women, and in all the right ways. They love to be challenged. They love that they don't have to carry the burden of the relationship or the household. They love the decisiveness, and the fiery attitude even if that part isn't always their favorite. They love a woman who speaks her mind. Says what she wants and needs. And most of all how a strong woman loves. Because we truly love with ever fiber of our being.

Your H wants a doormat who will do everything for him with out complaint. You aren't that person. And he can't fool you about who he really is any more.


OMG Wayfarer, I about spit out my coffee when I read this! As usual, you have a way with words that hit me to the core. I think you may be right about my H...and it makes me sad. Goes along with my struggle with if the man I married was a mirage, but this is the real him. I love him (truly with every fiber of my being), but this description rings so true for my situation that I am even more solid on moving on to the big D. If this is the man he is, he isn't good for me, and loving him will just continue to suck the life out of me...

Originally Posted by Wayfarer
You know me LH, I don't mince my words about guys who play act at being men when they are really just little boys.


Thanks all for the banter on my thread...I love it! Tell us Wayfarer...what do you think of men vs boys? lol

Originally Posted by May22
I wanted to pop in and just echo what a few others have said-- you're super strong and have a great head on your shoulders. And, when you've got both DnJ AND Wayfarer commenting on your posts, you know you're getting incredible advice so I'm just here to add a bit of moral support!

The only thing I wanted to comment on is this-- I know it is natural to want to dissect the MR issues with your H in your head, his weakness, incapacity to be a good partner, etc. I think that can be helpful for detaching as you start to see him as a human being and not just your H, is this someone you'd choose to be with if you were meeting him now, and all those related questions. All that being said, I also think you want to balance out time spent ruminating there with all the GAL stuff you're doing so well, and put some limits on that so that you're filling your cup with healthy and positive future-oriented things even while you allocate some time to thinking about your H and your MR


Yes, I am trying, but as I said, my brain/heart keeps dissecting my H and what my MR has been like. Maybe it's what is allowing me to face the D. I don't know...I'm trying to just focus on my goals and my plans. The whole limbo of the current moment is not helping. I do have a lot of things going on, so I am really not focused solely on stuff with H, and his flaws. But, your suggestion is good to ensure I don't waste too much time on what I can't answer, control, or affect right now, so best to focus my energy on better things that are about me and my future. I'm trying!

As for everyone's comments on relationships and finding the right person, thanks for the perspectives. I am not sure what my feelings will be when I start to date again, but I believe that one has to create a list in their minds of top 3-5 things the person must have, and a list of 3-5 flags that if they show up, then you move on asap. The top list should be more than just looks and such, but deeper things you can't live without in a partner. The rest is chemistry and hopefully some interesting things you like but hadn't thought of (when you actually start meeting folks you are interested in). I'm not sure I would run with someone who is totally into me more than I am them, and vice versa. But hell, what do I know? This is coming from the gal who thought she was getting a man and got stuck with a little boy! wink This will be my second D...so I think I am not choosing well (and I really need Wayfarer to help me find a real MAN next time around)!

Thanks all!

xo
El


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,227
Likes: 63
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,227
Likes: 63
Originally Posted by Elbereth
I'm struggling with this...as I have been dwelling on these thoughts for a while now and I'm not really sure what to think anymore. I've been cautioned about rewriting my past with H, but I can't help but wonder if the person I thought he was, was a mirage? Maybe his flaws became more intense or obvious due to the crisis? Or maybe they were there and I ignored them? I don't know...but I do know that this person he is now is not who I want to be with.
One conscious choice that I made - and it took me a while to get there - is to accept my own memories of the past as my own reality. In that reality I had a loving wife who was not perfect but was a good partner. She did a great job supporting me and did the bulk of raising our children of whom I am very proud. If I try to stir up the past then yes, things may float to the surface like a turd in the punchbowl, but I just leave it alone.

I think that has helped me a lot. Yes, learning from the past is very important but there comes a point where you need to just let it be and move forward. It does take time and patience and there will always be WTF or other moments when the punchbowl seems disturbed.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 368
Likes: 36
E
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 368
Likes: 36
Originally Posted by AndrewP
One conscious choice that I made - and it took me a while to get there - is to accept my own memories of the past as my own reality. In that reality I had a loving wife who was not perfect but was a good partner. She did a great job supporting me and did the bulk of raising our children of whom I am very proud. If I try to stir up the past then yes, things may float to the surface like a turd in the punchbowl, but I just leave it alone.

I think that has helped me a lot. Yes, learning from the past is very important but there comes a point where you need to just let it be and move forward. It does take time and patience and there will always be WTF or other moments when the punchbowl seems disturbed.


This is a good way of seeing things. I'm trying to accept my own memories as true ones...but I guess I'm still so blown away by what has happened, that I am not trusting my memories. I keep seeing all these whispers of signs that in hindsight I see, but wonder if that is only because I want to connect the dots in some ways. I'm still also trying to look back at my role in it all. It's all very hard and confusing but necessary, I think, for my own growth and also to move forward. I want to find a new counselor to explore these thoughts with. And I think journalling will help as well.

Also, all of the perspectives I get from all of you help as well!

El.

Time for a new thread...

New thread: Still putting one foot in front of the other...


Me 52, H 56
T10 M7, 2nd MR for both
2 Step Sons (19 and 21)
BD: Fall 2020
D finalized: July 2022
XH Married AP soon after D day.



Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard