One foot in front of the other

[Elbereth]

For me in the end, standing up for myself meant telling him that I did not want a divorce, I believed that we could have a happy future together if we were both committed to it, but I also would not allow him to treat me like a roommate, etc. That the way he was treating me was not acceptable.

In the end, I told him if he wanted this divorce so much he could file for it, and that's what ended up happening. But where I live, with the process we chose, it doesn't matter who does the filing.

Yeah, I have a lawyer and he's been pushing me to file from day one even though I started out doing exactly what you said. However, my H has not served me D papers yet, and has been dragging, and while that has been going on, more secrets, spending etc. So I have made the decision to file only to protect myself. It doesn't matter who does it first in my state either. But the longer I put it off, the more of the assets he is using for his A and crises, and the more that I also end up paying for...as it's a 50/50 no fault state.

Thank you for your kind words. It is such an individual thing. I truly wanted to force him to file. And have him be responsible for what has happened and the consequences, but I just can't put myself at that level of financial risk, as this is my second divorce and we were already not in the best financial state.

xo

[Elbereth]

Oh DnJ, you should be a writer. Your way with words...so good. Yes, you are right...

Forgiveness is not earned, and is bestowed freely. It comes from, and is for, you. Forgiveness, as counterintuitive as this sounds, has little to do with the transgressor and everything to do with you and your beliefs.

H cannot do anything to earn your forgiveness.

H forced you onto this unwanted path. He doesn’t control where it takes you. That includes being angry, holding a grudge, and not forgiving him; and includes finding peace, letting go, and finding acceptance and forgiveness. All within your grasp, and abilities to find and/or reinforce/strengthen/craft/discard.

I know you and SteveLW are right. And in my heart I know that like CWarrior said...

Forgiving a person does not imply trusting them again, nor giving them a chair at your table. In Elbereth's shoes, knowing her husband put his whims so high above her, I could understand being uncertain whether to trust and rebuild. I could see how true remorse would help make her feel safer to do so.

So maybe my forgiveness is not 'earned' as my description demands. As you are right, one can forgive regardless of situation or even if someone even knows they do. As it comes from me and is in me. It's something I let go of that allows me to forgive. I do get that. I have done that in other situations. But, CWarrior is right, I would need to feel safe in doing it in this situation. And as SteveLW said, forgiveness can be 'sought' and I would want to see that happening to feel safe in forgiving. Of course, it would still be my choice to do it regardless, but I'm not sure I could.

I am doing my best to not be angry, or hold a grudge or focus on negative things. I am focused on me, being positive, looking towards my future. So as much as it hurts, I'm not sitting here waiting for him to wake up and come back. I'm moving forward as if it's not going to happen. That is freeing in itself...even if it's hard. And it hurts. I am just trying to be patient with myself, and "let the chips fall where they may" in regards to H.

Thank you everyone... Your words and advice do help me to keep perspective, realize when I'm off course, and give me strength to move forward. I appreciate it so much.

[OnlyBent]

Hey El, you are right, it is hard and it does hurt, so very much.

I can’t remember how long you’ve been at this, but that second last paragraph...you’re doing great. As great as one can in this situation anyway. Much respect and keep it up. Regardless where they fall, I’m sure the chips will land on something amazing for you. It may just take some time.

[SteveLW]

One other point on forgiveness. It doesn't mean there are not consequences. For instance, you can forgive your husband for what he has done, harbor no ill-will towards him for it, but still decide not remain married to him. This is another area people mix up all the time. It is like when a family member of a murder victim forgives the murderer, that doesn't mean the murderer doesn't go to prison for the rest of their life or (in jurisdictions where it is a punishment) or even given the death penalty. There are still consequences even with forgiveness!

Human beings, as mentioned before, tend to look at things very binary. But most of these things are very complicated. Forgiveness, as DnJ says is for you, not your husband. I know people who have a spouse in their past that cheated and left them and they are still bitter about it! That is no way to live.

[Oceangl]

Just for clarity Elbereth, I was fully prepared to file if he continued to drag his feet or refused. Same as you, if you're done and/or protecting yourself, you gotta do what you gotta do. You can only live like that for so long. Especially the more you see your worth.

I think I knew I was close to forgiveness when he and OW didn't have so much power over me any more. I saw her once and realized she meant nothing to me. I t thought for a long time trying to figure out why I hadn't forgiven yet. Part of it was me realizing that I needed my anger to keep me safe. I was afraid if I forgave I would forget and someone would do that to me again.

I am not sure if I have all-the-way forgiven, but I am much more close. It's a journey. Well, at least it is for me. I know now I can protect myself. I also accept that people WILL hurt me in my future, that it's a part of life. And I can take care of myself.

[Elbereth]

Hello friends. Thank you for your encouragement OnlyBent, and additional thoughts SteveLW and Oceangl. You all have given me a lot to think about. Forgiveness is a complicated thing...but so important. I'm not sure when I'll be ready to forgive, but I'm also not going to let anger consume me. For me, it just might be letting go versus forgiving. Maybe it's sort of the same thing. I don't know. I will get there when I get there.

I wasn't feeling well most of last week, and just went with it and took lots of naps and self-care. I'm doing better this week. I start the financial workshop this week, so I am excited about that. It will help me plan for my future as well as assist me during the divorce. It's weird, I am sort of itching to get things moving forward now that I've decided I need to get the D. I can't keep living in this way. I'm tired of living in this limbo. Home doesn't feel like home to me anymore. And I think a part of me wants my own space to heal and to nest and to make my own way forward, no strings attached. Or maybe I'm just feeling this way as its something I can control somewhat...an action I can take to help me. But first, I'm still trying to get him to sign the agreement about the funds he took and spent on his affair and crisis. It just keeps dragging out and I am asking for proof if he wants to lower the amount I've asked for. Things are civil. Even somewhat lighthearted as our older son has been home too. Not much else to report. Nothing has really changed. He still seems set on his course and I'm still focusing on my needs and myself.

I am wondering if any of you have done journaling in your situations? I've never been one to journal. Of course I take notes and right down goals and such, but wondering 'how' to journal, and what works for you? Do you write as if you are talking to someone? Or is it more like notes about what you did or felt that day? I'm not sure where to begin with that.... One thing that got me thinking about it is I was listening to a podcast where the counselor discussed how rewriting a situation you've had can be healing. For example, a doctor didn't recognize a child had meningitis until the child was seriously ill and close to death. The parents were angry and threatened to sue him, etc. Of course he was angry and frustrated that they didn't realize that meningitis is very hard to identify in the early stages, etc. However, when he sat down to write the story from the parents point of view, he realized they were just afraid and scared and thought they would lose their child. He instantly didn't feel the anger anymore but felt compassion and empathy. They discussed how doing this even in changing a story that you are in can help you feel less anger, or deal with the feelings or emotions, or feel power over the pain. Anyway, wondered if this is what people do sometimes when journaling too? Anyway, any journaling or diary ideas or suggestions are welcome.

El

[OnlyBent]

I’ve read somewhere before that forgiveness is really just acceptance.

The story about the doctor and the patients, is really just being empathetic. Seeing things through other’s eyes. I’m getting pretty good at it. I’ve tried, but I can’t for the life of me see the actions of STBXW in any kind of positive light though.

[SteveLW]

OB, not sure forgiveness is analogous to acceptance. I think you can accept your fate and still hold your WAS accountable for their decisions. That is where I was, thought I also heaped a lot of blame on myself. Unlike many of the LBSs here, I was an absolute lousy H leading up to BD.

Elbereth, many posters use the board to journal. I think that is a good approach. I'd like to see the LBSs that struggle, journal on the board, but despite repeated efforts to get them to they still resist. But the ones that do use the board as a journal seem to do much better in advancing through their sitches.

[DnJ]

Good Morning El

Glad to hear you are feeling better this week. Naps and self care (maybe some chick soup ) did the trick.

Is the financial workshop online or classroom? How many sessions? Just curious. It never hurts to acquire further knowledge or firm up that which you are already have. And I agree, it will be helpful during divorce and post divorce.

It's weird, I am sort of itching to get things moving forward now that I've decided I need to get the D. I can't keep living in this way. I'm tired of living in this limbo. Home doesn't feel like home to me anymore. And I think a part of me wants my own space to heal and to nest and to make my own way forward, no strings attached. Or maybe I'm just feeling this way as its something I can control somewhat...an action I can take to help me.

Limbo is a weird landscape to travel. This path can be difficult and even painful, or much less so, depending upon one’s perception of it. Depending upon their outlook, their choice. Embrace limbo. But how?

I can't don’t want to keep living in this way.

Small change in wording can have a huge affect internally. This is much more a want than a can’t. That gives you power and choice. And the realization that this weirdness is driven by your feelings.

I totally get how home doesn’t feel like home anymore (for the moment). Feelings are very real and very temporary. Do not make life altering decisions based solely, or mostly, upon them.

I live in the marital home with all the furniture, appliances, equipment, dishes, and everything - except her favourite coffee mug, a laundry basket, and the bathroom scale. The only things she took in her exodus. My home is very much my home - now. It feels it. I think it. I believe it.

Limbo and indifference brings a void in emotion and action. Other feelings loom larger than they really are. We also focus upon those feelings which stand out against the blankness; and that which we focus on gets bigger. Of course it only seems to get bigger. However, perception is reality; and you can affect you perception and therefore your reality.

That is a long way from “can’t”. Just think of it. See and imagine just how powerful your mind is.

Continue the divorce because of the need of protection, not because you feel a temporary need for a change. Don’t fret or rush things. You will create changes and new avenues of life, and will do so for much better reasons. Do not tie those positive choices to the divorce; keep divorce just business. Your changes will be based upon your beliefs and values. Embrace limbo, walk it’s weird path, and discover it’s meaning.

Journaling can be a helpful tool. Organizing our thoughts and feelings, working through various scenarios, exploring and discovering our values, and so on. We all have an inner dialog. We all have an ego. The written word has a power about it. A permanence. An another entry into our minds.

People gain information in many ways. Reading, hearing, and writing for example. (Books, classroom/workshop, journaling) The latter is in the doing/action realm. We associate that effort, that conscious effort of organizing and putting pen to paper, the permanence of such an act, to elevate it in importance. It must be important if we put forth that kind of effort - goes the unrealized thought process. Of course that is especially true for those who have an affinity for the written word and the acquiring of knowledge in that manner.

An interesting tidbit of journaling’s power exists in its written form, as opposed to an audio recorded diary or journal. Aside from the greater effort to write, one also has recorded it on paper. This allows one to release these thoughts, feelings, and events from their mental grasp and tightly held grip. It is written down, I do not need to firmly remember all these details. Again, the underlying process reveals the power. With us able to mentally let go, to have assurance we will not loose certain things, we actually process, progress, and actually retain that which serves us and release that which does not.

What to specifically write about? The sky’s the limit. And the direction can be whichever way you want it to be.

Personally, I would write factual events and realization, more than feelings. It is along the lines of what we are focused upon. What we are reinforcing. However, one needs to start somewhere and feelings are true, and “feel” powerful and deep. So do not ignore your feelings, allow them to flit away by writing about events with their fleeting nature in mind.

There is a good deal of mental assertiveness, that sword and shield philosophy, one can apply. Yet still have free roaming internal exploration. Heck, you’re in limbo, you might as well make the most if it and explore. All directions do seem to feel the same, don’t they? Have faith, there is a path out. (((Hugs)))

We all require a certain level of understanding before we can let go. Compassion is another value one should work to find and aspire towards. These, along with kindness and other positive traits and beliefs, bolster empathy. For all my life I’ve been blessed (and somewhat cursed at times) with a high level of empathy. I have no problem seeing the many sides of a situation. I can understand, empathize, and even forgive my XW’s bizarre actions. To be clear, I do not know exactly why she did what she did, she doesn’t even know that, yet I can and do see how it is possible for someone to be driven to that extreme.

OnlyBent’s post reminded me of a change management course I took. One of the tools is to look at things from the other side; much like the doctor’s story. As strange as it is, there are positives on both sides of every story; and yes negatives as well. My W running off and abandoning her own four children and taking on OM’s boy as her own, in front of her own children - recall the car accident OM’s son had and how XW was so upset as she was telling her own children how she almost lost a child.

XW’s actions are positive, she became a terrible Mom. Abandoning her children’s lives is one of the best things she could actually do. Perhaps, somewhere, hidden within herself is J, and some weird subconscious pressure/feeling lead her to take that action. Or perhaps not. Or it is just a nice bedtime story I tell myself. Lol. Point is - I have feedback of my viewpoint, my forgiving and empathic view. My kids are doing great! That is a positive, which would be less likely if XW had fought over them or with them. And that would be very much something the lost/past J would have given her life for - her children. (Which she kind of did.)

Now, that doesn’t absolve her of all the actions and choices she made. Life is very tangled and nothing is simple nor straightforward. Empathy requires setting aside one’s ego and being ok with not really knowing the “truth”. For there are many “truths” in any situation, each person seeing things through their lens. Being able to peer alongside someone else is useful and somewhat cool, and can at times get confusing. Having strong moral and deep convictions and beliefs are good and necessary anchors, for you don’t want to get lost yourself. It requires a good deal of openminded-ness as well. An ability and desire to change and evolve for the better.

This doesn’t rewrite out story. It reframes it. Views things in a different light. Like the doctor, seeing from the parents’ side. We flesh out our story, furthering it, with not before realized information. Just something I strengthen while walking about in limbo.

Embrace your limbo.

You are among those who understand and empathize. A very good place to journal.

D

[Elbereth]

I’ve read somewhere before that forgiveness is really just acceptance.

This is also for SteveLW...Quote from Google: "You forgive someone for you, not for the other person. The other person may have no idea or may not care what has happened so it often doesn't affect them at all. So this is why you do it for you and you alone. Acceptance is more accepting the fact that it happened." To me both of these seem to be acceptance from my point of view. ha!

The story about the doctor and the patients, is really just being empathetic. Seeing things through other’s eyes. I’m getting pretty good at it. I’ve tried, but I can’t for the life of me see the actions of STBXW in any kind of positive light though.

OnlyBent’s post reminded me of a change management course I took. One of the tools is to look at things from the other side; much like the doctor’s story. As strange as it is, there are positives on both sides of every story; and yes negatives as well. My W running off and abandoning her own four children and taking on OM’s boy as her own, in front of her own children - recall the car accident OM’s son had and how XW was so upset as she was telling her own children how she almost lost a child.

XW’s actions are positive, she became a terrible Mom. Abandoning her children’s lives is one of the best things she could actually do. Perhaps, somewhere, hidden within herself is J, and some weird subconscious pressure/feeling lead her to take that action. Or perhaps not. Or it is just a nice bedtime story I tell myself. Lol. Point is - I have feedback of my viewpoint, my forgiving and empathic view. My kids are doing great! That is a positive, which would be less likely if XW had fought over them or with them. And that would be very much something the lost/past J would have given her life for - her children. (Which she kind of did.)

Now, that doesn’t absolve her of all the actions and choices she made. Life is very tangled and nothing is simple nor straightforward. Empathy requires setting aside one’s ego and being ok with not really knowing the “truth”. For there are many “truths” in any situation, each person seeing things through their lens. Being able to peer alongside someone else is useful and somewhat cool, and can at times get confusing. Having strong moral and deep convictions and beliefs are good and necessary anchors, for you don’t want to get lost yourself. It requires a good deal of openminded-ness as well. An ability and desire to change and evolve for the better.

This doesn’t rewrite out story. It reframes it. Views things in a different light. Like the doctor, seeing from the parents’ side. We flesh out our story, furthering it, with not before realized information. Just something I strengthen while walking about in limbo.

Embrace your limbo.

You are among those who understand and empathize. A very good place to journal.

That wasn't really the point I was trying to make. But also very good points on how to view things. It's not that its not true, seeing things from another view can help you to understand them better, but the point of the process they focused on was how it can free you from your own guilt/rage/anger, etc. Another example was a man who's younger brother died by being hit by a car. Before it happened, he had told his brother he didn't want him to walk with him so he made him walk alone ahead. All his life he struggled and blamed himself for his brother's death which manifested itself in various ways as an adult. By rewriting the story where he walked beside his brother helped him to release the guilt by creating his own new memory of it. Freeing in a way for him. I'm not sure I'm explaining it correctly as it was a long episode and I'm trying to do it in a few sentences. Ha!

Is the financial workshop online or classroom? How many sessions? Just curious. It never hurts to acquire further knowledge or firm up that which you are already have. And I agree, it will be helpful during divorce and post divorce.

It's online and it's for women that are divorced or going through divorce by Michelle Smith and it helps women understand their financial options as they take control of their own destiny. It's not cheap, but it got some good attention and I have wanted to learn how to take basic finances to the next level (understanding investing, etc).

It's weird, I am sort of itching to get things moving forward now that I've decided I need to get the D. I can't keep living in this way. I'm tired of living in this limbo. Home doesn't feel like home to me anymore. And I think a part of me wants my own space to heal and to nest and to make my own way forward, no strings attached. Or maybe I'm just feeling this way as its something I can control somewhat...an action I can take to help me.

Limbo is a weird landscape to travel. This path can be difficult and even painful, or much less so, depending upon one’s perception of it. Depending upon their outlook, their choice. Embrace limbo. But how?

Quote
I can't don’t want to keep living in this way.

Small change in wording can have a huge affect internally. This is much more a want than a can’t. That gives you power and choice. And the realization that this weirdness is driven by your feelings.

I totally get how home doesn’t feel like home anymore (for the moment). Feelings are very real and very temporary. Do not make life altering decisions based solely, or mostly, upon them.

Continue the divorce because of the need of protection, not because you feel a temporary need for a change. Don’t fret or rush things. You will create changes and new avenues of life, and will do so for much better reasons. Do not tie those positive choices to the divorce; keep divorce just business. Your changes will be based upon your beliefs and values. Embrace limbo, walk it’s weird path, and discover it’s meaning.

You are right, can't and don't are two different things, and yes, I could, but I choose not too. So I am choosing that if I have to get a D to protect myself, I am ready to just do it. And just like GAL, having my own place is getting my own life going. Right now too much of this home is part of H and the kids. I can't afford to stay even if I wanted too. And it's bigger than I would want by myself. Also, the remodeling projects caused a lot of fights, so I wouldn't want it if we ever get to MR 2.0.

Anyway, I am trying to embrace my journey and my limbo. All good ideas for journaling as well, thank you. I do feel that some of what I am doing on here is journalling after your comments, but I am also being careful not to say too much as it's public. So I think doing this for the support and a written journal for the really private things, might be the way for me to move forward. I'm going to give it a go!

Thanks friends!
El