Need advice on stubborn W part 2

[AKuei]

Thanks CW..

I usually don't communicate with the W unless it's about the kids or logistical issues. She's still very active within my immediate family and friends (playing mahjong with my dad, joining my friends for gathering, etc) Some of my friends and my siblings knows what's going on but they respect me enough to not join in the fray to talk/scold/counsel her. I also told them not to because I'm handling this on my own.

Great advice on the colleagues, cashiers- type of interaction. I'll put in more effort to emulate that sort of behavior! It's just that whenever i see her i got reminded about the harsh words she had thrown at me previously and I unknowingly activated my bitchy face. All of her actions about hanging out with EA/PA/Colleagues till the middle of the night, living her life as if she's single, etc etc, are really making me disgusted with her.

I'm actually going to sign up to get a boat license, get certified for my japanese language (I sorta need it for my job), and signing up for positive parenting workshop (she knew about this but doesn't want to join but I went ahead anyway).

And I'm also bracing for the D letter from the W. Not sure when but I have a gut feeling it's coming soon. I will want to make sure I don't lose it and do stupid things.

[AKuei]

It's been a solid 7 months since my last update. I've been putting off penning my thoughts here because it has been an overwhelming period for me. Nonetheless, gonna write a lengthy story again.

The reason why I was gone for so long is because my father passed away a few hours after getting his 1st covid shot. It was shocking and I was totally crushed by his passing.

Prior to that dreaded day, I did have a short conversation with the W on what were the future plans. I was on the false assumption that she had soften because she was engaging me more than ever, and behaving like it was pre bomb drop. Boy was I wrong big time. She said she likes the current situation; in house separation (I sleep with the kids while she sleeps by herself on another bed in the same room, no intimacy, basically roommates, etc)

And then when my father passed on, I just broke down completely. I felt like I've lost the most pillar of my life. I have no one else to prove to, I have no reasons to keep up with the facade. Nonetheless, I've tried to be there for the kids. To be honest, the kids were there to help me thru the grief instead. They are young and they only talked about the fun times they have with grandpa and kept telling me he's in heaven now. They really pulled me thru the darkest times. W was there to support in any capacity she can, helping to take care of the kids, doing what she can to assist in the funeral, etc. I was grateful and I personally thanked her for it.

I'm still on therapy and processing my father's death. The very raw image of him lying motionless on the floor in his home has been engraved in my memories. At random moments, that image will show up in my mind and I will be in state of sadness. It comes and goes randomly but after months, the frequencies reduced as well.

From then onwards till present day, W has been working from home completely and not heading back to work. And because of the pandemic, she had also reduced the frequency of heading out for dinner with friends and colleagues. She also recently invited me to play mahjong with her colleagues on weekends too. I love playing MJ by the way so most times I will gladly oblige.

In the middle of June, she asked me for a loan to get braces for her teeth as it is affecting her quality of life; she has a serious case of overbite and she can't chew food properly for decades. She joked about paying me back 500 bucks a month (the loan was 8k) but I can tell she wasn't serious. I fell into her trap and I gave her the money. Not expecting her to return it to me. Her attitude towards me soften and she started to engage me more frequently. As we have a tenant that is moving out at the end of the year, the W is planning to move the kids to the spare room. That sets me thinking; why would she want to move the kids to another room and leave me and her in the master bedroom? Till this day I still don't have the answer and being the pessimistic person that I am, I feel that nothing is going to change at all. She will most probably still be sleeping by herself. But on the bright side, I have the full queen size bed for myself!

2 days ago was our wedding anniversary. I didn't do anything for her at all; not even cards and flowers. I just spent the day like any other day; busy with the kids and work, busy with preparing dinner, etc etc.

And because of the guilt, I've made another boo boo again. She was talking about getting an ergonomic chair (even though she already had 2) and I got her another one. She did transferred me the money but i returned the transfer and written reference as "wedding anniversary and birthday gift". I was expecting that she will reverse it again and there it is. It happened! She reversed the transfer and said "no need".

I had enough. I made up my mind back there and then that I will tell her in her face that it's a gift and stop the shifting of funds. Thankfully I took a deep breath and didn't do it because I don't see a point (not the hill I want to die on). So I am transferring this frustration into venting on this forum. Almost everyday I've been thinking of pulling the trigger (D) myself because I simply cannot imagine myself living in this state forever. I feel like throwing the towel and go separate ways. Kids will definitely suffer but I guess I will have to work doubly hard to patch that gap as a single parent.

I thought I was detaching very well because during these months, I did not engage her in any R talks as well. I was cordial and supportive in the household. I minded my own business for most parts. That being said, I can see pockets of my wrongdoing. I'm just not doing DB perfectly.

I need some 2x4s now. I'm really on the verge to confront her about the gift incident. For once I feel like I want to tell her in the face how I'm feeling. I also want to initiate divorce talks because I simply can't stand it any longer. It's been almost 3 years.

[DejaVu6]

Hi AK. So sorry for your loss. Losing a parent is hard…doubly so when it is so sudden.

RE: confronting your W about the gift. I’m unclear as to why there needs to be a confrontation. First off…why would you get her an anniversary gift when she BD you almost three years ago? Did you think it might change her mind or change your situation somehow? I think she thought that was your motive which is why she paid you back for it. She didn’t want to be beholden to you for a gift she didn’t want you to get her. You say you got it for her out of guilt? Why would you have guilt? It’s been three years.

I don’t know if it has been suggested to you to read No More Mr Nice Guy but your probably should…especially the part about “covert contracts”. You know…when you do something for someone with a hidden expectation that they will respond a certain way and when they don’t, you get mad. Doing things for other people and expecting something from them in return, is a recipe for being chronically disappointed. Better to have no expectations so that when people do react favourably, you are pleasantly surprised.

Remember… DB isn’t to get your wife back. It’s for you to to detach and rediscover who you were before you were married. It gives you the best chance of saving your marriage (because no one wants to be with someone who appears needy) and, at the same time, give you the best chance of saving yourself regardless of your marital status.

RE: your kids. Kids are pretty resilient. I’m with you though…my preference was always to give my kids an upbringing in a two-parent home. It is definitely the ideal. But…it only takes one person to decide to take that away so you may not have any choice in the matter. Ultimately, they will take their cues from you and if they see that you are happy and your W is happy, they will adjust to the new normal.

Best of luck!

[AKuei]

Thanks for responding DV6. The guilt comes from the fact that she gave me a birthday present earlier this year I would like to reciprocate it

I've read the NGS book. I am having NGS and I have a high conflict avoidance issue. I'm having anxiety attack for the past hours and I really want to tell her that I'm hurt by this action. And I also want to tell her to let me know what her plans are so we can move on.

This was also at the advice of my therapist a couple of weeks but I've been putting it off until today. Living without any clarity really [censored] big time. On one end I want to end things so I can be free of this suffering, on the other end I want the family intact because of the kids. But that will be at the expense of my mental health.

The conflict avoidance in me is making me standing still. No action will I dare to take. I can almost see that I will end up like her father who is also in this situation for decades with her mother. Runs in the family I guess.

So I guess, should let this go and go back to improving my detachment and get rid of the covert contracts issues? Or should I go guns blazing and let it (emotions, resentments, etc) rip?

[Traveler]

I'm having anxiety attack for the past hours and I really want to tell her that I'm hurt by this action. Or should I go guns blazing and let it (emotions, resentments, etc) rip?

Dear Akuei,

GIFT - (Noun) - Something that is bestowed voluntarily and without compensation.

It seems like you expected "compensation" for this gift--even if it was as simple as her accepting a "wedding anniversary present" when she's told you she's no longer your wife. That sounds more like a covert contract than a gift. Yes, work out your anger, hurt, disappointment, etc.--on a stress ball, on a treadmill, on a mountain top. The marriage is over. Yelling at her doesn't make sense. She told you it was over years ago. It also doesn't do anything positive for your co-parenting relationship.

The guilt comes from the fact that she gave me a birthday present earlier this year I would like to reciprocate it

Imagine this is anyone else. You asked them to lend you $20. They give you $20. You ask for their address to pay them back and they say forget about it. Would you feel guilty?

I also want to tell her to let me know what her plans are so we can move on.

She's implementing her plan in front of you. You want her to choose you or move out--but you don't control her. You only control yourself and whether you choose to continue this way or move on.

[AKuei]

Many thanks for the reality check CW. I'm very sure I've been doing things wrong and expecting the wrong things but I can't seem to rationalize it.

You've made it so much clearer. There's nothing to confront. I wanted to gift her and was expecting a thanks. That's a mistake. I shouldn't harp on the fact that she doesn't do what I expect her to do. I can only control myself.

She mentioned the D word sometime in the middle of last year, alluded to D in feb this year. But I see no effort in her wanting to move things along. Heck, she's even trying to plan future stuff with me like getting furnitures for the kids, renovating the house, moving to a bigger apartment, yada yada. All these in my mind were like cake eating. I am to blame myself for indulging her too by going along with the flow. I should have stopped it and not get myself involved in her fantasy planning.

I have to do better. I must sort out myself and get rid of all sorts of expectations and then will decide whether I should continue this way or move on. I want to have control of my life. When i re-read my post about asking her to tell me about her plans; I really want to punch myself. Once again I'm letting her control my destiny.

Again. Thanks for the 2x4s. Really needed it.

[BL42]

AKuei,

Welcome back. I'm very sorry about your father's passing. That must be incredibly difficult. Definitely sending my thoughts and prayers your way.

She said she likes the current situation; in house separation (I sleep with the kids while she sleeps by herself on another bed in the same room, no intimacy, basically roommates, etc)

The current setup is working for her, but is it for you? Doesn't sound like a good situation for you. It's been a long time...3 years. How much longer are you living to live like this?

In the middle of June, she asked me for a loan to get braces for her teeth as it is affecting her quality of life; she has a serious case of overbite and she can't chew food properly for decades. She joked about paying me back 500 bucks a month (the loan was 8k) but I can tell she wasn't serious. I fell into her trap and I gave her the money.

I don't like the idea of you giving her a lot of money to improve herself. She wants to leave you. let her figure it out herself. Maybe she wants the overbite fixed for her new man or to meet a new man.

2 days ago was our wedding anniversary. I didn't do anything for her at all; not even cards and flowers. I just spent the day like any other day; busy with the kids and work, busy with preparing dinner, etc etc. And because of the guilt, I've made another boo boo again. She was talking about getting an ergonomic chair (even though she already had 2) and I got her another one. She did transferred me the money but i returned the transfer and written reference as "wedding anniversary and birthday gift". I was expecting that she will reverse it again and there it is. It happened! She reversed the transfer and said "no need".

You say you didn't do anything for the wedding anniversary in the first sentence, and then you say you bought her an ergonomic chair she wanted and told her it was for the anniversary. She explicitly told you she didn't want a gift or even an acknologlement of the date. She's being very clear. Unfortunately it [censored] and it's not what you want, but she's being clear.

I thought I was detaching very well because during these months, I did not engage her in any R talks as well. I was cordial and supportive in the household. I minded my own business for most parts. That being said, I can see pockets of my wrongdoing. I'm just not doing DB perfectly.
Good. Keep in mind just because you were DB'ing well doesn't mean you'll get the result you want. As they say here, drop expectations. Your update comes across as still doing things with expectations.

[quote=AKuei]I'm really on the verge to confront her about the gift incident.

You don't need to confront her. A big DB item on this board is no confrontations or arguments. You both know where you stand. Act accordingly.

For once I feel like I want to tell her in the face how I'm feeling.

She knows how you feel. And you know how she feels.

I also want to initiate divorce talks because I simply can't stand it any longer. It's been almost 3 years.

You do not need to talk to her to initiate a divorce. You can simply do it. 3 years is a long time. Sounds like you've been standing long enough you can know in your mind you gave it your best.

[SteveLW]

Akuei, sorry for the sudden loss of your father. How awful, my heart goes out to you. Please take the time for self-care necessary to grieve your loss.

IHS is difficult. I have never claimed otherwise. I have merely said that IHS CAN work. After all, that is the path my situation took. (Note: For those that disagree with this, fine. That dead horse has been beaten.) What makes it so difficult is the things you are struggling with. Special days, celebrations, etc. In my case I too struggled. We had Valentine's Day, and her birthday during the meat of our situation. I tried to keep it low-key and still "recognize" the day. For V-Day I got her a spa gift cert. For her birthday we did a family dinner, and had my daughter pick out a gift and give it to her.

But IHS is a struggle, and there a lot of temptations to break from good DBing. I tried to be easy on myself and realize I wasn't going to DB 100%, but I tried to get as close to 100% as I could. LOTS OF GAL. I had to stay busy, and out of the house as much as possible. I can not over emphasize the importance of GAL. When you do GAL well the rest of DBing falls into place easier. GAL usually includes self-improvements so they tend to come along for the GAL ride. But detachment becomes a lot easier when you stay busy. Your interaction with your IHS WAS will become less frequent. And that will help you stay detached in the more limited interactions you have.

As far as the gift, if she insists on reimbursing you, just let it go. Likely she is feeling guilty about not reciprocating now (anniversary) or in the future (your birthday). She is trying to let herself off the hook, so let her! Remember, a properly detached individual would just let it go, and not expect reciprocity in the future.

Akeui, you always have it in your power to decide it is not working for you, and to pull the plug yourself. Remember, kids would rather be from a broken than IN a broken home. If you don't think that IHS is rough on the kids, you would be mistaken. This is affecting them more than you know, and could have an impact on their own future relationships.

Onward and upward, Akeui! You've got this!

[LH19]

When i re-read my post about asking her to tell me about her plans; I really want to punch myself. Once again I'm letting her control my destiny.

AK I think we all want to punch ourselves when we think back on how we acted after bomb drop. When I think back it makes me so mad I want to punch myself in the dick. You should have stuck with the board to avoid most of those mistakes.

First and foremost you can't nice her back by paying for her braces or buying her chairs. Never has worked and never will work it will actually do the opposite and she will lose more respect from you.

Now you have young kids so if you want to stand that do so with zero expectations that she will return to the marriage. Your focus should be 100% on your children and yourself.

My guess is she is slowly planning her exit strategy probably waiting for the pandemic to end or until she latches onto another male.

Your best chance at reconciliation would be to tell her that this situation isn't working for you anymore separating and go start living a kick a$$ life. No one ever chooses this scenario so that is why there is so very few recons here. Most of the recons here are due to the fantasy blowing up.

She's very comfortable now calling the shots, having her own bed and playing house. That needs to change AK if you want things to improve. Things have to get worse before they get better.

[Ready2Change]

The reason why I was gone for so long is because my father passed away a few hours after getting his 1st covid shot. It was shocking and I was totally crushed by his passing.

Reading this brought tears to my eyes. I am sorry. If you have a great memory of him, I would love to hear it.

Your best chance at reconciliation would be to tell her that this situation isn't working for you anymore.

I completely agree. There are good ways and bad ways of telling her this. If you decide to go down this path, we can give you more support.