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Pac,

Overall I think you are doing well but there are some areas you may need clarification on.

Originally Posted by Pack_19
She also started sending me emails about our new home in Munich, I was not answering so her L got in touch with mine. My L said I should answer those emails and not be immature.

I agree with your lawyer. You should answer questions regarding kids and finances but be as brief as possible. If you can give some examples of the emails I can suggest how to respond.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
I told her the house causes me too much pain and we are close to selling it after I handled it all BY MYSELF and I will not explain a thing to her, enough that she is going to get half the winning we make after I took responsibility for all.

That was a weak and kind of pricky statement. Stay away from statements like this in the future.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
I later sent her an email telling her not to ask me anything more about the house.

Pac that was a controlling email that will just remind her that you have not changed.

Again, you are making a lot of great changes and accomplishing some impressive goals but you have some work to do in regards to your interactions.

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Hi Pack,

Overall, a great update! I can really feel your detachment growing vs. prior messages from you. I love that you're shopping around for lawyers and trying to achieve a work/life situation that works for you. LH pointed out a couple of behaviors I'm sure jumped out to most readers.

Originally Posted by Pack
I later sent her an email telling her not to..

Originally Posted by Pack
E - Listen actively to anyone, focusing on being happy with the new life circumstances I have and being the best father and man I can be.

Telling others what to do is controlling. We're all works in progress. Be wary anytime you're telling someone what to do unless they're your subordinate or kid. Your kid is 2. At that age it's usually acceptable to tell them what to do, lol. Subordinates, even, it's worth a little thought unless they're unskilled labor.

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Originally Posted by LH
Pac that was a controlling email that will just remind her that you have not changed.

We often say it may take years for the WAS to look back and realize there's been a change. The flip side is, it often takes years for the LBS to make changes. Pack seems committed to getting there. I love that he has his PIES. I never remember what it stands for, but he consistently aims to improve them.

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CW makes a great point in his first response. I will say however, that if the LBS struggles with proper responses (like so many do), I would rather they handle them the way Pack is than to be overly eager to communicate.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted by SteveLW

Pack great update! Love the crossfit. Keep up the good work.

On the job, as a manager I can tell you that HR departments are forever pressuring us to have an equal distribution of low achievers, mid-achievers and high achievers. It drives me nuts. They talk about a bell curve, and rating people in relation to each other. It is maddening. I've resisted giving any of my employees a low-achiever just because they aren't going above and beyond like others might. I say all that to say maybe your boss is under the same pressure? And the new employee is an easy target.

As far as the L, like most things in life you get what you pay for. I always chuckle at advertisements for corrective eye surgery where they are bragging about their low rates. The last thing I want when it comes to eye surgery is a budget surgeon! And you should take the same tact with a D L. Extra cost up front could save you thousands of dollars later. I applaud you for not just sitting back and sticking with your current L out of ease. It amazes me how humans will shop around for the best price on a car or TV, but then just take the first L that comes along.

Well done, sir!


Hi Steve!

Thanks for the post, yes I talked about the bell curve with a friend that is in a similar situation, he works for Boeing, and my manager has reiterated that the important thing is how satisfied she is with me and the progression she can see in me. However, it was still hard to listen to that feedback in a moment when all was coming on me and it reminds me that if I let this situation continue damaging me as a man there will come a day when I could lose my job and I have children that depend on me. I guess I am an easy target, new team member, made some rookie mistakes last year but I wanted to ask for an improvement in my salary and now I do not see that happening, even if she has told me these things are independent. Sometimes it is hard to understand because as you point out, I dont see the conversations between HR and managers. Thanks for offering me your experience.

About the L, I only want someone to understand that after this covid situation is over I have a life I want to take back and it means being able to work in the office from time to time and that will not come for free. I do not care if the cost is higher, I am not hurt by the fact that I pay more than usual given our finances, it pains me that she is not using that for the best of our children.

Thanks for the post and the encouragement Steve! I will keep you updated!


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hi LH! Hope you are doing great!

Originally Posted by LH19

I agree with your lawyer. You should answer questions regarding kids and finances but be as brief as possible. If you can give some examples of the emails I can suggest how to respond.


I will try to explain. I actually thought showing this strength was a change on my side for the better. I always think I will not do anything to harm or inconvenience her, but I will also not move a finger to make her life better, specially considering all that has happened with OM and her constant attitude of despite towards me. This is so hard, maybe you guys can help me.

For example, she would get an email in German where the real state company requests our approval of the next payment by the bank and she would forward it to me out of nowhere asking me if all is fine and how the payments are going. Now please understand this, for the first year of our S I would answer all these emails in a kind way and trying to inform her. Did it help me? No. Did it change the way she used any chance to remind me of all my fault? No. I have heard many times here I was trying to nice my way back and it was never going to work. Now I try to be a strong man, never going against anyone but trying to protect and defend what I have so hard worked for, and you tell me I have not changed. Please help me understand how a mature and detached man would handle this, I dont want to show her a man at her feet anymore.

So now, I see this email and I think, well she can use an online translator and see exactly what they say. She left our home, regardless of whether I could pay or not the mortgage, she told me to stay in Germany as far as possible from her and the kids and she threatened me with a miserable life in order to get the kids back to Spain. All I am doing is defending my position as a man, you wanted nothing to do with our house, how come now a year and a half later you are very interested. I am trying to change LH, for the better, but I dont think I want her to see any change anymore, after all she has done, if she ever was to come to me I dont know what I would think. I hope I have explained myself and you all can offer some guidance.

Originally Posted by LH19

That was a weak and kind of pricky statement. Stay away from statements like this in the future.


I guess that was hurt talking. I wanted our family to live in that house, it was probably the biggest achievement in my life and all I got from her is that I manipulated into buying it and that she was in Germany because of me (in a blaming tone). I dont want any R with this woman the way she behaves now LH, I want to talk to her about only essentials and some day I will be able to show her a strong man, the wonderful man she has thrown away.

Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Pack_19
I later sent her an email telling her not to ask me anything more about the house.

Pac that was a controlling email that will just remind her that you have not changed.


I sent her a first email telling her I would handle all linked to the payments of the house, which I have been doing in terms of payments and paperwork since she left. Then she replied to that telling me she must be informed about everything. To that email I replied that I would not avoid any communication between her and our financial advisor but not to expect any information from my side. Then she sent a new email insisting I inform her and then is when I replied in that mistaken way.

I feel like I have been humiliated enough during this situation LH. All the times she has said I destroyed our M, all the times she has accused me of having jealousy issues, the way she has pushed me out of her life as if I meant nothing, all the days I have to say goodbye to my children and go out running to avoid crying at home. I dont want to be childish or vindictive in any way. I just want to show her a man that has principles, sticks to them and expects respect. But where is the line? What emails am I suppose to answer and what can I ignore?

My W has ignored me and pushed me away form her new life for almost 2 years now LH, and I still call her W in my head. Thanks a lot for your comments and help. I hope I managed to explain myself and you can offer me some guidance.

Originally Posted by CW

Telling others what to do is controlling. We're all works in progress. Be wary anytime you're telling someone what to do unless they're your subordinate or kid.


Hi CW! I thought I was referring to how others interact with me and trying to set a boundary with her. I will think about that the way you and LH have explained it and work on it not happening again. Thank you both, looking forward to hearing back form you!


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Originally Posted by Pack_19
For example, she would get an email in German where the real state company requests our approval of the next payment by the bank and she would forward it to me out of nowhere asking me if all is fine and how the payments are going.

Yes. The payments are on time.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
Now please understand this, for the first year of our S I would answer all these emails in a kind way and trying to inform her. Did it help me? No. Did it change the way she used any chance to remind me of all my fault? No. I have heard many times here I was trying to nice my way back and it was never going to work.

You can't nice her back and you can't mean her back.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
Now I try to be a strong man, never going against anyone but trying to protect and defend what I have so hard worked for, and you tell me I have not changed. Please help me understand how a mature and detached man would handle this, I dont want to show her a man at her feet anymore.

See my response above. Think of her like a business partner when it comes to finances. Just the facts.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
She left our home, regardless of whether I could pay or not the mortgage, she told me to stay in Germany as far as possible from her and the kids and she threatened me with a miserable life in order to get the kids back to Spain.

And yet you still want her back.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
All I am doing is defending my position as a man, you wanted nothing to do with our house, how come now a year and a half later you are very interested. I am trying to change LH, for the better, but I dont think I want her to see any change anymore, after all she has done, if she ever was to come to me I dont know what I would think. I hope I have explained myself and you all can offer some guidance.

Well then file for D and move on.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
I guess that was hurt talking. [quote=LH19]
Learn to master your emotions and this will not happen in the future.
[quote=Pack_19] I sent her a first email telling her I would handle all linked to the payments of the house, which I have been doing in terms of payments and paperwork since she left. Then she replied to that telling me she must be informed about everything. To that email I replied that I would not avoid any communication between her and our financial advisor but not to expect any information from my side. Then she sent a new email insisting I inform her and then is when I replied in that mistaken way.

W feel free to contact X at this email address for that information.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
I feel like I have been humiliated enough during this situation LH. All the times she has said I destroyed our M, all the times she has accused me of having jealousy issues, the way she has pushed me out of her life as if I meant nothing, all the days I have to say goodbye to my children and go out running to avoid crying at home. I dont want to be childish or vindictive in any way. I just want to show her a man that has principles, sticks to them and expects respect.

Give her the D she wants and go live an amazing life. It's really that simple.
Originally Posted by Pack_19
But where is the line? What emails am I suppose to answer and what can I ignore?

Come on man you know the answer to this but I will give it to you one more time. Questions about the kids or finances. Be brief and to the point. Ignore everything else.

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hi all!

I hope you all had a great weekend and those GAL batteries are recharged!

@LH, thanks for the answers, thanks for the critical view on my unfortunate messages and thanks for the boldness on your suggestions. Kids and finances, business like, understood! Let's see how many times I stumble before I get this working long term.

I have started working on getting my paperwork in place for D this summer. I need a couple of documents from work and then I can engage with the new L, however, since I work in a large worldwide corporation and they have to make an exception for me to work in between Seville and Madrid, it is taking long time and headaches.

I had a very strange conversation with my manager some weeks ago that left me broken. She is also a mom and she told me moving forward I have 3 options:
1 - I continue to grow in the team and I make my family life work with the travel required after COVID, meaning I need support from W or family when I need to be out.
2 - I become a backup team member, never leading engagements but working flexible hours in the background
3 - She helps me find a new role with less travel

My immediate answer was 1 and I will make it work, but it left me worried thinking all my personal situation has ended up being a problem with my manager. She said she was here to help me, but I could not avoid all my worries. I thought a lot about all the changes and destruction W has brought into my life and I had a weak moment of thinking how this all could resolve if we R and could be a family again. Then I relaxed and thought, "no Pack, that would be the easy solution, easy is not the best. Short term inconvenience for the desired long term happiness, I can make this work alone!".

We only interact to exchange the kids and I always make sure to be the first one to leave. About the house in Munich, I ended up sending her an email asking f she could sign the contract for selling it and if all was fine and she replied that she had found a couple of mistakes but was talking to our contact there. Later she emailed me asking if she had to sign a specific page to what I replied "yes please do".

I am dealing with a lot of frustration for my career because I keep feeling that I have to choose between keeping frequent contact with my children or growing professionally because eventually covid will be over and I will be expected to work in an office to grow and promote and that office will not be in Seville based on what I do now and I don't want to leave ( I work in artificial intelligence and I consider myself very fortunate for it, I do not want to change that).

Despite I still have my bad days and some poor sleep nights I am working on staying focused on the children, Pack and my job. Just this weekend I went to the beach with them and took our first swim of the year with S7. I love being with them, they really are an oasis in my life. Deep inside I still cannot believe all that has happened, how S7 cannot remember a thing about our life in Munich and everything W has said and done since this nightmare started.

I bought a couple of Saucony running shoes with an energy plate inside. They are meant to help you go faster so now I have two pairs I can mix depending on how I am feeling and the kind of training I go for. Crossfit is killing me but boy do I love it! My hands are full of blisters from pull ups and weight lifting but I can see myself improving. I am also taking my motorbike lessons and loving it! Got myself a good helmet, nice gloves and a jacket and I try to go as much as I can, I dont know why I had never jumped on a motorbike before! Anyways, I am taking it slowly because I have kids and everyone encourages me to be very respectful, not that it is necessary because I will be but it is I believe an important message to keep in mind.

I finished refurbishing the bathroom and it looks epic! The black finishes on the tap, the shower and the shower screen makes it look really male in a cool way and the kids love it! They can now take showers using the upper rain-effect head and they just love it. I think it was money well invested! With that, the house in Seville is done and I can focus my savings on the kids and my passions (cars and motorbikes).

Still spend a lot of time thinking about the past and how my life has changed as well as how done W is with me and all that our family represents for her. I have moments of doubt about my changes and my ability to keep it up but I have my PIES as a reference to follow. I am going to start reading "The art of seduction" and I will now post here more often as a diary. Time goes by, every time I look at S3 in the eyes my brain shouts "there must be a way to give you a full family back" and yet I know is time for Pack to set up boundaries on the things I can tolerate in my life. Scr@w my May deadline, I am not ready to D in a healthy way. I will do it in August when I have all the paperwork ready and I will write in my brain that I gave it all I could for 2 years since BD. I am also not ready to date, but I feel lonely, I miss being intimate with a woman badly and I hate all the pressure I get from outside to "just open my eyes to reality and move on".

On a positive side, here are some changes I have established in my life.
P- I have changed my eating habits, I have never been this fit and I will compete asap once Covid is over. I have never been so much into having exercising routines and I have new clothes for the good weather coming up.
I - I start in June my new project as leader and I keep learning about the cloud and all related to my work. I have now 10 books on my queue to get started with.
E - When I talk to someone I focus on listening and understanding how they are feeling. I am learning to accept this miserable stage of my life will not last forever and truly letting W go
S - I am trying to parent my kids with love and at the same time discipline. I pray for them and for me and I am learning to understand my weaknesses as that desire to pursue the women I like and I am learning to change that in me and working on improving the respect I feel for myself and my self esteem.

Thank you all, please keep posting here. There are still many edges in me I have to work on.

((hugs)) Pack


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Another solid update, Pack.

Originally Posted by Pack_19

I had a very strange conversation with my manager some weeks ago that left me broken. She is also a mom and she told me moving forward I have 3 options:
1 - I continue to grow in the team and I make my family life work with the travel required after COVID, meaning I need support from W or family when I need to be out.

You say door #1 requires support from your W, but she no longer wants that hat. I'd start thinking about how you'll do door #1 without her. This could mean paying a nanny when you travel. This could mean deciding your job doesn't pay enough to hire a nanny, so you in parallel search for a job with less travel.

Originally Posted by Pack_19
I am dealing with a lot of frustration for my career because I keep feeling that I have to choose between keeping frequent contact with my children or growing professionally

Yes, of course, this is a key life choice. I could make 10% more within a month if I ditched parenting. Your choice will be guided by your values. For me, it's the easiest choice in the world--my kids. Another dad explained to me he couldn't do more than Fri-Sun without impacting his income. Priorities?

Originally Posted by Pack_19
I am going to start reading "The art of seduction" and I will now post here more often as a diary.

Cool! Someone encouraged me to watch a 30-min video on attraction (for men attracting women). What that woman claimed: (1) Women prefer confidence--so address any areas of your life you're unhappy with--e.g., for me a messy car and home, (2) Women prefer men with standards, so don't be shy to check potential partners against yours, and don't compromise your values. I rejected a third point (3), men over-compliment women so no more than one compliment per date. I enjoy expressing gratitude and compliments, and I'm not going to change who I am just to attract people. I'm pretty attractive as-is. (:

Originally Posted by Pack_19
"there must be a way to give you a full family back"

S3 still has a full family--a mom and dad who love him. Keep that front in center in your mind.

Originally Posted by Pack_19
I am also not ready to date, but I feel lonely

On Sunday, I co-hosted a charity event, and when one member of the band got sick I stepped in. I talked to over 100 people and deepened multiple acquaintances. Afterward, I went for a hike, and I suspect my smile was wide because three different people started conversations with me. Today, I was invited to a new friend's charity event. I got to meet 9 of their friends, saw wildlife I've never seen before in lands restricted to the public, and enjoy a catered lunch. Pack, I don't feel 90% lonely, or 50% lonely, or 10% lonely. I'm sure I will, some days? Addressing loneliness is separate from dating. I suspect this me is capable of attracting better dating prospects than the old me who required so much of his partners. (:

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Originally Posted by Pack_19
I thought a lot about all the changes and destruction W has brought into my life and I had a weak moment of thinking how this all could resolve if we R and could be a family again. Then I relaxed and thought, "no Pack, that would be the easy solution, easy is not the best. Short term inconvenience for the desired long term happiness, I can make this work alone!".


Great update Pack, this is the quote that grabbed my attention the most. I'm glad you could relax and think this through logically. I would also add that how would you feel about R with someone who has caused you so much pain and has brought so much destruction?


Me: 41 W:42
T: 14 M: 11
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"What happened happened, and couldn't have happened any other way...because it didn't"
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