She's OUT! #7

[Mumin]

Time for a new Thread.
Old Thread

Short recap:
Me: 34
STBXW: 30
D:5 D:3
Mini bd: May/June 2019 (I start wondering about OM)
Married: Aug 2019
BD: 6th Dec 2019
I filed for D: 29th March 2020
D final: Dec 2020
XW finally moved out: Jan 2020

Mumin:
Hey Everyone!
Thanks for the input on visits at XWs.
I haven’t brought it up more and I will NOT be going there. At least not within the near future.
It didn’t help me and it doesn’t help my kids. ( I believe they need time to fully understand their new day to day).

So, the kids just left for the first time.
Sure is quiet here now.
Going to GAL as much as possible this week. Feeling empty now.

BenB:
Hang in there Mumin, the first two weeks after my ex moved out were the worst for me. After that, I started to see the benefits. That's when the fun began

Mumin:
Thanks Ben!
Encouragement and support always helps!

Started by ordering new books for the kids, will go shopping for me now.
Then food, work, beer and games/movie tonight.

[ovrrnbw]

Hey Mumin,

I saw where you said the house feels empty now. Empty is a good thing! You get to eat what you want, it's easy to keep the place clean, you choose the show, etc. Plenty of upside to that so just enjoy it. One day you'll find a better woman and you'll want that busy life again but this can be fun.

Hope you're well.

[Mumin]

Big thanks for checking in Ovr!!!
I have been looking forward to exactly what you are describing for several months but the emptiness hit me harder than I thought it would. It really has nothing to do with XW and all to do with the kids though, to be clear.
I am sure it will get better and I am planning a lot of GAL. For sure going snowboarding this weekend.

Next few days I will focus on work and on filling some of the things that are physically empty. (ex. She got the TV.)

Pretty sure OM was in my house. Feel really strange, but nothing I can do about it.

[MrBrside]

Mumin,

I'm with ovrrnbw on this. That first week is strange.

After that, you get into a routine of the new norm.

I'll make a suggestion here ( which is how i work ) which benefits both me and my children.

I spend 100% of the time with my children when they are with me and awake.. Board games, lego, movie, cludo, arts and crafts, cooking together etc etc.
My laptop stays off and my phone sits on silent.. Its me and them. I do the basic "keep on top (ie dishes etc ) when they go to bed or with them if they want to join in ( ie D5 loves drying dishes ) .

When they are not with me, its a case of keep on top of the mess we caused when they were here.. Hoover, clothes washing, cleaning, ironing etc.. Basically the chores that as a "family" you would probably do day to day.
This eats into GAL a lot, but my priority will always be my children. Any other free time i have see's me hitting the home gym or under a car at the weekend.

I love my life - and its easy to get selfish...

All WW are selfish - You just need to be the rock for your children. My 100% thing takes it to the extreme, but its my choice.. They are not children forever, so i cherish all the time i can with them, as in 10 years they will be out with friends..
Just little things like "sitting down as a famly" to eat, or not sitting there on your phone make a big difference to children, as they arent daft - they see you are invested in quality time with them.. and they will appriciate it.

You will love it

[sandi2]

Just remember, this too shall pass.

[ovrrnbw]

Mumin,

one of my favorite Stoic quotes

everything is a matter of judgment

and one of my favorite 90's song's translation of that quote

If you wanna be somebody else
If you're tired of fighting battles with yourself
If you wanna be somebody else
Change your mind, yeah

Also, props to MrBrside for using "daft" in a sentence. I swear I love the way y'all talk!!!!

[Mumin]

From BL42's thread

BL42 and Mumin, you guys have very young children. How can you explain what's happening on their level? I think LBH's try to tell them too much, really. It's understandable, b/c you're dealing with a lot of nasty stuff. I just think you have to keep things very, very simple, b/c they cannot grasp adult stuff.

This week is the third week after physical seperation.
I am at a point where I am considering if saying: "If OM is to be sleeping over while kids are there I want to know in advance".

Seriously, why do you think you should be notified whenever the OM will be sleeping over? I've never heard of a WW notifying her LBH in advance when she plans to do the other guy. If you don't want them to laugh in your face, I suggest you drop that idea.

Mumin, you've previously said similar things about wanting to know in advance when OM will be staying at your W's place. When will you realize that it's none of your business? Unless you see some signs the children are suffering from the OM in some way, where you get officials involved, you can't help what goes on in your W's personal life.

The sense of loss of control must be unbearable for you. I don't say this coldly. My family has experienced the same situation with one of our adult children. It's horrible, and there is nothing you can do about it.

((((Big Hugs))))

Hi Sandi, thanks for replying and sorry BL for hijacking (though it sounds like your battling similar thoughts).
Its great with these posts because they force me to think through things.

I fully agree with you Sandi that keeping things simple and without details is the right course. However, if it is possible to communicate/co-parent around introducing new people in the children's lives I think that's a good thing. Heck XW herself got angry and asked me to communicate when I was introducing a babysitter to the kids.

So to the sleeping over issue. My wording above was a bit unfortunate. To be clear I DO NOT want her to let me know every time. Just the thought is appalling.
What I am after is to get a heads-up if/when she is going to be introducing him more in their lives, and it doesnt have to be the sleeping over.
However, as I (like you) believe it is a very dramatic experience for a child that small to suddenly find another man in Moms bed I feel it is the duty of me as a father to say something. Especially when XW seems to not be sure about anything in her life and I think she might actually consider my opinion.

I am not 100% sure about this and I am battling, letting things go vs what's in the best interest of my children.

Will post this same message in my own thread if you would like to answer.

[SteveLW]

The desire to know who your kids are around is a good one, in my opinion. However, there are a few things at play here.

First, most LBSs aren't as concerned about their kids being around OP as much as they are concerned about there being an OP. Those LBSs are not being honest with themselves about that, but use their concern for their kids as an excuse to "keep tabs" on their STBX.

The other problem is that even if the STBX agrees to this, they are under no obligation to follow it. You could get them to sign their name in blood on a triplicate form......and they still can have OP over at the same time with the kids and there isn't a gosh darned thing the LBS can do about it.

So then you get to the question of whether or not you can trust your STBX to not have people that are harmful (legally speaking) to your kids well-being around said kids. If you cannot, then you should be documenting the problems and working with your lawyer to fight for full custody. After all, a person that would make your kids available to people that are harmful (legally) to your kids, is not fit for custody about supervised visits.

So what does harmful, legally mean? It means someone that is committing a crime in the presence of your children. People that are actively dealings drugs while your kids are there, or that are sex offenders not allowed to be around underage kids, etc. Unfortunately, for the LBS, the OP that is sleeping with your STBX does not meet the legal definition of harmful, and therefore you would look foolish to take your STBX to court for custody in that case. I've actually heard judges say, talking about a WAS parent that is having sex with multiple people, say to the LBS "Okay, so you've proven she likes sex. That doesn't mean that she is a bad mother."

So it boils down to whether or not you trust your STBXW to not bring legally harmful people into your kids' lives, and if you really do not then to fight for full custody.

[Mumin]

Ok I am fully with you there Steve (and others on this board), and I agree almost 100%.
The difference being, just because something isn't legally wrong doesn't mean I SHOULDNT voice my opinion.
If XW were feeding them only rice and butter (which has happened but stopped) and lets say that is legally ok.
Should I never say anything? Not even tell her I don't agree with it. Don't think so.
What will my own kids say in 20 years if they hear I never said anything while I was thinking/feeling something was wrong?
And what is the point of CO-parenting if general parenting principles are never even discussed.
Might as well do parallel parenting (which I have considered in some instances).

So in my mind there is a line were I DO say something that does not necessarily match the legal line.

[SteveLW]

Ok I am fully with you there Steve (and others on this board), and I agree almost 100%.
The difference being, just because something isn't legally wrong doesn't mean I SHOULDNT voice my opinion.
If XW were feeding them only rice and butter (which has happened but stopped) and lets say that is legally ok.
Should I never say anything? Not even tell her I don't agree with it. Don't think so.
What will my own kids say in 20 years if they hear I never said anything while I was thinking/feeling something was wrong?
And what is the point of CO-parenting if general parenting principles are never even discussed.
Might as well do parallel parenting (which I have considered in some instances).

So in my mind there is a line were I DO say something that does not necessarily match the legal line.

Fair enough. However, I think the approach is important.

"The kids talked to me about eating rice and butter. They said they didn't care to just eat that, can we agree that in the future their meals will be more substantial?"

VS.

"I want to know when OM stays the night while the kids are there!"

First one is coparenting, and working together. Second one is making a demand that, as sandi said, is really none of your business, short of what i discussed above.

Saying "something" is more nuanced than trying to "school" her...not saying that is what you were suggesting, but wanted to make sure that was clear for others that read this.